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Archive 2015 · 7dii in AI servo

  
 
pike40
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · 7dii in AI servo


Just wanted to share an observation on today's Eagle outing. The tracking conditions were very tough as I often was shooting through brush and tree limbs as the AI servo was tracking and I was snapping images. The 7dii did a really nice job of staying with the bird. I have attached an image as an example. For handheld and with a v1 100-400 I was pretty pleased with the performance.

Comments welcome.

Mike



© pike40 2014




Feb 22, 2015 at 05:23 PM
arbitrage
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · 7dii in AI servo


Looks like it stayed with the bird and ignored the multiple distractions. What are your tracking settings set at?


Feb 22, 2015 at 05:35 PM
pike40
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · 7dii in AI servo


arbitrage wrote:
Looks like it stayed with the bird and ignored the multiple distractions. What are your tracking settings set at?


Used case 2 set at -2 0 1.

Mike



Feb 22, 2015 at 05:47 PM
arbitrage
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · 7dii in AI servo


pike40 wrote:
Used case 2 set at -2 0 1.

Mike


Yes, that will keep it locked for quite a while in my experience. I used to shoot at those settings and lately I've gone back to just case 1 or 6 depending on type of bird. I may try going back to Case 2.



Feb 22, 2015 at 06:43 PM
PetKal
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · 7dii in AI servo


I do not believe dialing down tracking sensitivity can account for the camera trying to AF on the eagle in your scenario shown above. If you had iTR AF on, then you'd have a camera design feature trying to keep AF up with the bird, although that probably would not be entirely successful because the bird colour is not all that different from the bare tree/branch colours.

My guess would be that the branches in the foreground were too much defocused initially, and they represented a significantly lower contrast than the eagle. However, even on low contrast, AF would eventually do its job when sufficient phase info became available, and the camera would attempt to AF on the foreground branches when the AF sensor(s) "hit" them, and then "release" AF back to the eagle, etc. If you dial the sensitivity too low, then there will also be a delay in the camera AF "releasing" the foreground branches and switching back to the eagle (unless AF was rebooted.)



Feb 22, 2015 at 07:32 PM
pike40
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · 7dii in AI servo


PetKal wrote:
I do not believe dialing down tracking sensitivity can account for the camera trying to AF on the eagle in your scenario shown above. If you had iTR AF on, then you'd have a camera design feature trying to keep AF up with the bird, although that probably would not be entirely successful because the bird colour is not all that different from the bare tree/branch colours.

My guess would be that the branches in the foreground were too much defocused initially, and they represented a significantly lower contrast than the eagle. However, even on low contrast, AF would eventually do
...Show more

Thank you for the comments. I guess the way I was looking at this might be slightly different than I understand your point to be. This eagle was tracked from a blue sky background into all of this potential AF clutter and held focus on the bird, I have not been as successful doing this with standard settings or case 1 or 6. Maybe it is was blind luck but I suspect the settings are working to help track the bird. There were also green trees in the background that would have represented similar contrast targets and it still did not lose the bird.

I appreciate the discussion on this as it is a big help to me and probably others in understanding the nuances of the AI servo settings.

Mike



Feb 22, 2015 at 07:51 PM
arbitrage
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · 7dii in AI servo


I think that setting tracking sensitivity down to -1 or -2 does help. These 5 images in sequence from today was Case 1 with Tracking Sensitivity set to -1 as a modification. I think that by having it at -1 it helped not grab the large tree in front of the eagle. I don't think it was actually getting info from the eagle as it was so covered up but the predictive algorithms that AI Servo uses allowed it to keep the eagle in focus as I panned along.



























Feb 22, 2015 at 07:59 PM
PetKal
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · 7dii in AI servo


arbitrage wrote:
I think that setting tracking sensitivity down to -1 or -2 does help.


It helps to a degree.....like perhaps a second, or a bit more, "dead band" at the sensitivity setting of -2. But do not expect a slow flying bird to become covered by trees and the camera continues to hold AF on it for yards on end.
Besides, such thru-branches shots seldom yield keepers, although they could be interesting.

In the OPs scenario, the best I'd know how to approach it is to turn iTR AF on, keep sensitivity on "0", as I always do anyways, and use manually selected center AF point only, i.e., no expansion. I'd also be prepared to reboot AF at the first sign of AF diversion to the foreground.

Please note, I base my comments on the experience with 1DX, and not 7DMkII. The latter camera probably has some little peculiarities of its own, that is, when it works as intended.



Feb 22, 2015 at 08:29 PM
pike40
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · 7dii in AI servo


"The latter camera probably has some little peculiarities of its own, that is, when it works as intended."


Ouch......



Feb 22, 2015 at 08:40 PM
arbitrage
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · 7dii in AI servo


PetKal wrote:
It helps to a degree.....like perhaps a second, or a bit more, "dead band" at the sensitivity setting of -2. But do not expect a slow flying bird to become covered by trees and the camera continues to hold AF on it for yards on end.
Besides, such thru-branches shots seldom yield keepers, although they could be interesting.

In the OPs scenario, the best I'd know how to approach it is to turn iTR AF on, keep sensitivity on "0", as I always do anyways, and use manually selected center AF point only, i.e., no expansion. I'd also be prepared to reboot
...Show more

What is the point of having iTR AF on when using centre point where the iTR AF doesn't function?

I agree that these behind tree shots I posted are next to useless but as it emerged from the other side I was able to nail the full approach/landing shots on the nest. Alternatively I could also have just removed my finger from the BBF and then re-acquired (or reboot) as it came into the clear again saving my 1DX some valuable 5 shots of shutter life



Feb 22, 2015 at 09:25 PM
PetKal
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · 7dii in AI servo


arbitrage wrote:
What is the point of having iTR AF on when using centre point where the iTR AF doesn't function?



Yes, I should have been more clear: I would use center AF point only, or supplement that strategy with auto AF point selection across the frame with iTR AF on.



Feb 22, 2015 at 09:33 PM
Jim McCann
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · 7dii in AI servo


Fellow at CPS told me just the other day that Case 1 is fine for most things, but suggested I "knock down" tracking sensitivity to -1 or "even -2."

Haven't used the set up yet on BIF. Jury is still out on this stuff.



Feb 22, 2015 at 09:37 PM
arbitrage
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · 7dii in AI servo


Sometimes I'm not sure if any of these parameters make much of a difference in the end. I find most of the time it is operator error in keeping a point on the bird that trumps all these settings any day.


Feb 22, 2015 at 09:40 PM
PetKal
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · 7dii in AI servo


Jim McCann wrote:
Fellow at CPS told me just the other day that Case 1 is fine for most things, but suggested I "knock down" tracking sensitivity to -1 or "even -2."

Haven't used the set up yet on BIF. Jury is still out on this stuff.


That is not a bad suggestion to set all three parameters to their "neutral" (or default) value of "0", if that happens to be the Case 1.

As far as the sensitivity goes, I start with "0"' as well, but then there are a few refinements. If I shoot with MkII lenses bare (i.e., 300/400/500/600) I will dial sensitivity down to (-1).
If I use zone AF, or auto AF point selection across the frame, I'll set AF point switching speed to (1) or even (2), etc.

In other words, what I have been doing is looking at individual settings, and make adjustments in them here and there, depending not only on the shooting scenarios but also on the lens. In all that I do not pay attention to Canon's AF tracking cases, but build my own sets of parameters, ad hoc, on a case by case basis.



Feb 22, 2015 at 10:44 PM
JVthePT
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · 7dii in AI servo


I have had similar success tracking eagles through brush and branches with case 2 and no modification to parameters.


Feb 23, 2015 at 11:46 PM
Harry.C
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · 7dii in AI servo


I'm really impressed with the tracking on the 7Dii. I normally shoot with a 1DX and find the 7Dii tracking pretty much on-par. A few weeks ago I was shooting falcons hunting pigeons and the 7Dii kept focus effortlessly despite the extremely fast speed of the target and the constant interference from oof pigeons.

eg.
http://colquhoun.smugmug.com/photos/i-Fz3VrTr/0/L/i-Fz3VrTr-L.jpg

http://colquhoun.smugmug.com/photos/i-GNzkD2D/0/L/i-GNzkD2D-L.jpg

http://colquhoun.smugmug.com/photos/i-MttHm2C/0/L/i-MttHm2C-L.jpg

No modifications to the parameters.

Cheers,
Harry C



Feb 25, 2015 at 12:00 PM
gschlact
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · 7dii in AI servo


Harry, what focus point mode or zone and Case settings did you use for those falcon pigeons shots?


Feb 26, 2015 at 06:13 PM
phototronix
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · 7dii in AI servo


I love the manual shooting mode for birds,when shooting in manual mode, you have full control of both aperture and shutter speed, which is nice. When photographing birds in flight, I want my shutter speed to stay at around 1/1250 of a second and not fluctuate. The same with my aperture, which I normally keep between wide open to f/8, depending on my distance to the bird and lighting conditions. If you go with Shutter Priority, you have full control of the shutter, but your aperture will fluctuate and sometimes unnecessarily, especially with Auto ISO turned on. If I shoot at f/8, I want my aperture to stay at f/8 and Shutter Priority does not allow for that


Mar 04, 2015 at 09:12 PM
Imagemaster
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · 7dii in AI servo


Manual mode can be a poor choice for BIF's when light changes every few seconds. I prefer shutter priority with ISO set so my shutter speed is met to give f8. With Safety Shift enabled, the shutter speed will be maintained while the aperture may drop to f4 or lower.


Mar 04, 2015 at 10:38 PM





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