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Archive 2015 · Help and feedback on my first strobed HS Basketball attempt

  
 
jake14mw
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Help and feedback on my first strobed HS Basketball attempt


Hi Everyone,

My daughter plays HS basketball, and I have been taking pictures of her games for years. I just tried lighting with flashes for the first time in a recent game, and wanted some feedback from you all.
As far as the ambient light level in the gym, a normal well lit shot for me would be ISO 4500, f2.8, and 1/500th. Here's an example of one of my better than average ambient light shots.
http://markwright.zenfolio.com/p679865000/h1F3024A6#h1ec9ea52

I use a Pentax K-5, and general use either a Tamron f2.8 28-75 zoom, or a Sigma 2.8 70-200 lens.
For my first try with flashes, I had 3 Yongnuo YN-560 iii flashes and the YN-560TX transmitter on the camera. The flashes were set up on monopods zip tied to the tops of the bleachers at the baseline pointed to the top of the key. I had two on one end of the gym on each side, and one on the other end to help light the backround. I had done one practice session before the game, and settled on the following settings, 1/2 power, 70mm zoom, f4, ISO 400-560. Pentax' max synch speed is 1/180.

http://markwright.zenfolio.com/p679865000/h1F3024A6#h6ddc7a1
http://markwright.zenfolio.com/p679865000/h1F3024A6#h1f3024a6
http://markwright.zenfolio.com/p679865000/h1F3024A6#h5fe5f09
http://markwright.zenfolio.com/p679865000/h1F3024A6#h593a680

I like the results overall, but I want to make them better. I think the biggest issue I have is the rather intense shadows. I am thinking about 2 different methods of solving this, either 1) add a small amount of on camera flash fill, or 2) add another flash on one of the existing stands either bouncing off the ceiling or back wall. I think I would prefer #2. The problem with that I see is that, even at half power, pointing it up to the ceiling will not add a lot of light. Maybe it will be just enough though, and I can turn down the others one notch to help the recycle speed?

Any suggestions or feedback would be appreciated. The photos I uploaded were not edited at all, I would certainly crop them a little differently.



Feb 19, 2015 at 01:42 PM
mikekeating
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Help and feedback on my first strobed HS Basketball attempt


Big difference for sure. I don't have children that play basketball (or are above 5 feet tall) so I never noticed flashes on a court. Did you need permission to do this? Were there comments about it during / after the game?

I normally shoot soccer and gymnastics so I apologize for the questions that maybe basic in nature.



Feb 19, 2015 at 02:10 PM
jake14mw
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Help and feedback on my first strobed HS Basketball attempt


Hi Mike, Thanks for the reply. You do need permission for this. I asked the Athletic Director and the coach before. Players do not notice it. I think most fans would notice it, I know some of the other parents noticed and asked me about it. I'm sure others who have done this more than me might have more of an answer for you.


Feb 19, 2015 at 02:56 PM
pat.kane
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Help and feedback on my first strobed HS Basketball attempt


You have 5+ stops difference between ambient and flashed, so before I changed any of the hardware I'd back off one or two stops and lower the flash power to see what it looks like.


Feb 19, 2015 at 09:35 PM
wbunnell
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Help and feedback on my first strobed HS Basketball attempt


I've shot with flash for many high school basketball games and your on the right track. Most gyms I was somewhere around 1/250 @ f/4 ISO 800 and 1/4 power flash. Obviously there would be some tweaking in different gyms but that was where I would start. I was happy shooting in darker gyms since they were easier to light. Realize that you do lose some light in the corners as you can see in one of your shots with the coach in the background. Try setting the coverage to 50mm and see if that helps a bit but I think that was usually a problem for me.

I would avoid on camera flash. I've seen it done twice. Once was an old newspaper guy so I think they cut him some slack. He pulled up a metal folding chair right near the baseline and sat there for half the game. The other time was a younger kid using HSS walking courtside blasting away in players faces. The parents got on him pretty good for that. Always get permission from the AD or at least speak with the coach before, as its common courtesy and avoids problems from the start.

One thing I do want to bring up is safety. You mentioned you had flash units on monopods zip tied to railings. Its good to get them up as high as you can but make sure everything is secure so no one is injured. Extra zip ties, gaffers tape, etc. Whatever you need to use so nothing comes crashing down. I found a crack in one of my cold shoes once at the end of a game and could only imagine if the flash came loose and injured someone. Ever since then I carry gaffers tape with me to lock everything in.

I see your also in CT. If Cromwell makes it to the Mohegan the lighting is much better there!



Feb 20, 2015 at 02:05 AM
jake14mw
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Help and feedback on my first strobed HS Basketball attempt


pat.kane wrote:
You have 5+ stops difference between ambient and flashed, so before I changed any of the hardware I'd back off one or two stops and lower the flash power to see what it looks like.


Hi Pat, thanks for your reply, but I'm not sure I understand it. I would like to lower the flash power so that I could shoot faster. Since the fastest flash sync shutter speed is 1/180, so I know my SS needs to stay there. Overall, I think the pictures I took have the right exposure, so in order to turn the flash output down, I would need to either open up the aperature or raise the ISO, right? I'm trying to stay at f4 rather than open up more because I think that is more of the sweet spot image quality wise for my lenses, and also to have a little more DOF to make up for the AF not keeping up in all cases. I could raise the ISO to 800 I suppose and experiment.



Feb 20, 2015 at 07:25 AM
jake14mw
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Help and feedback on my first strobed HS Basketball attempt


wbunnell wrote:
I've shot with flash for many high school basketball games and your on the right track. Most gyms I was somewhere around 1/250 @ f/4 ISO 800 and 1/4 power flash. Obviously there would be some tweaking in different gyms but that was where I would start. I was happy shooting in darker gyms since they were easier to light. Realize that you do lose some light in the corners as you can see in one of your shots with the coach in the background. Try setting the coverage to 50mm and see if that helps a bit but I
...Show more
Thanks, and overpowering the ambient is even more important for me since my flash sync speed is 1/180. I will experiment with the zoom coverage.

I would avoid on camera flash. I've seen it done twice. Once was an old newspaper guy so I think they cut him some slack. He pulled up a metal folding chair right near the baseline and sat there for half the game. The other time was a younger kid using HSS walking courtside blasting away in players faces. The parents got on him pretty good for that. Always get permission from the AD or at least speak with the coach before, as its common courtesy and avoids problems from the start.
The idea was to just add a little on camera flash to fill the shadows, not to switch to on camera flash. I do agree with you though, I have noticed that to be distracting as a fan. The worst I saw was at one game a guy had a setup where he was reflecting flash back to a silver umbrella just off the court. That was obnoxious! That is a fear about me bouncing off the wall or ceiling too though, seems like it would make it more noticeable to everyone.

One thing I do want to bring up is safety. You mentioned you had flash units on monopods zip tied to railings. Its good to get them up as high as you can but make sure everything is secure so no one is injured. Extra zip ties, gaffers tape, etc. Whatever you need to use so nothing comes crashing down. I found a crack in one of my cold shoes once at the end of a game and could only imagine if the flash came loose and injured someone. Ever since then I carry gaffers tape with me to lock everything...Show more
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.

I see your also in CT. If Cromwell makes it to the Mohegan the lighting is much better there!
Yes, the lighting there is fantastic. No worry about strobes there! This was from two years ago. http://markwright.zenfolio.com/p970914803/e585f59fc



Feb 20, 2015 at 07:54 AM
pat.kane
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Help and feedback on my first strobed HS Basketball attempt


jake14mw wrote:
Hi Pat, thanks for your reply, but I'm not sure I understand it. I would like to lower the flash power so that I could shoot faster. [...]


You've listed the right adjustments, i.e., shutter speed is fixed at sync speed, not wanting to trade off DOF (I like f/5 if I can get it, so I understand), which means the only option left to reduce flash power is to bump up the ISO.

I would set up my camera at 1/180, f/4 and adjust the ISO to get the correct exposure. Then reduce ISO by 3-4 stops and take another picture. You should be looking at a black or near black frame. Now turn on the flashes and adjust power to get proper exposure. The black frame confirms you've killed ambient and are relying strictly on flash to capture the frame.

There's no hard and fast rule on settings as some people will accept a little ghosting to be able to shoot at lower power settings while others want to absolutely freeze the action and are comfortable they can capture peak action with one shot. Or in your case as you pointed out a concern about the hard shadows in your first post, lower power for direct flash would mean less hard shadows. Personally, I found the first results to be perfectly acceptable.



Feb 20, 2015 at 05:28 PM





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