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Archive 2015 · Canon quality control versus warranty repairs.

  
 
Imagemaster
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Canon quality control versus warranty repairs.


Considering defective cameras such as 5D,1D Mk III, and 7D Mk II's, that have been returned and fixed under warranty, do you think this is costing Canon more than it would to have more competent quality control?

If Canon is admitting that some 7D2's are faulty, why are they getting passed by quality control?



Feb 18, 2015 at 03:47 PM
Monito
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Canon quality control versus warranty repairs.


There are so many glib assumptions in the original post that this thread is going to automatically become filled with controversy. It will be an open question whether those assumptions get subjected to full scrutiny or not.



Feb 18, 2015 at 04:00 PM
Wrei
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Canon quality control versus warranty repairs.


Here is a thought, those cameras are shipped thousands of miles on trucks, ships, trains and planes before they get into a photographer's hands. I bet every one of those cameras met the drawing specifications when they left the factory. What is probably happening is the AF components are affected by a sharp bump. What if the defective cameras were shipped in a container that may have had a sudden jolt?

I recently received a brand new 5D III two weeks ago. I had to send it back for a replacement because the rubberized grip over the memory card door peeled off after one day. I don't think this was a manufacturing problem because when I looked at the tracking from UPS (the 3 day expedited shipping took 8 days due to the 6 inch NYC Blizzard) the camera sat in their warehouse or truck for 4 days before it left NYC. I am sure that cold weather may have deteriorated the adhesive, and who knows what else? I couldn't find anything in the Canon specs that said it would survive those kinds of conditions.

All Canon is admitting is the cameras they are repairing have a problem, they are not admitting there is a design or manufacturing defect because I am sure they haven't had time to investigate the root cause. That could take 6-12 months after a significant trend is established.



Feb 18, 2015 at 04:20 PM
Gochugogi
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Canon quality control versus warranty repairs.


I ran a couple blocks with a 70-200L and thereafter it was blurry on the left side. So zips and bumps can throw delicates out of whack. Canon fixed it and it became sharp again.


Feb 18, 2015 at 04:48 PM
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Canon quality control versus warranty repairs.


Monito wrote:
There are so many glib assumptions in the original post that this thread is going to automatically become filled with controversy. It will be an open question whether those assumptions get subjected to full scrutiny or not.


So why don't you point out the glib assumptions?

The problems with the cameras I pointed out are factual and backed up with statements from both Canon and owners of those cameras, Mr. Glib.

Was the mirror fix on my Canon 5D a glib assumption? I'm pretty sure the mirror assembly falling apart on many copies was because Canon used an incorrect glue.



Feb 18, 2015 at 05:30 PM
Monito
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Canon quality control versus warranty repairs.


Design flaws are not the same a quality control issues.


Feb 18, 2015 at 05:33 PM
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Canon quality control versus warranty repairs.


Wrei wrote:
Here is a thought, those cameras are shipped thousands of miles on trucks, ships, trains and planes before they get into a photographer's hands. I bet every one of those cameras met the drawing specifications when they left the factory. What is probably happening is the AF components are affected by a sharp bump. What if the defective cameras were shipped in a container that may have had a sudden jolt?

I recently received a brand new 5D III two weeks ago. I had to send it back for a replacement because the rubberized grip over the memory card door
...Show more

Quite possible, though all those things are assumptions by you. You think that Canon specs should show shipping survival conditions?




Feb 18, 2015 at 05:36 PM
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Canon quality control versus warranty repairs.


Monito wrote:
Design flaws are not the same a quality control issues.


No kidding? And of course design flaws have never been found when going through quality control testing?



Feb 18, 2015 at 05:40 PM
Wrei
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Canon quality control versus warranty repairs.


Design flaws are a quality control issue. Product quality is evaluated during each phase of product development, including design. It is much more cost effective to fix a design error during the design phase than to fix it after it is found during manufacturing, test or post delivery phases.


Feb 18, 2015 at 05:44 PM
chez
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Canon quality control versus warranty repairs.


If the issues are happening with the cameras during shipping, then the packaging for the camera is lacking...or the design for the camera does not hold up to the rigors of shipping. All this needs to be taken into account during the development of the product, even the shipping concerns.


Feb 18, 2015 at 05:54 PM
Monito
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Canon quality control versus warranty repairs.


Wrei wrote:
Design flaws are a quality control issue. Product quality is evaluated during each phase of product development, including design. It is much more cost effective to fix a design error during the design phase than to fix it after it is found during manufacturing, test or post delivery phases.


You are correct on all points, but they are not manufacturing quality control issues of the kind the Original Post implied.

The original poster is angry and wants everyone to speculate about quantitative issues (numbers and costs) that are unknowable outside of Canon's business offices. Such speculation is pointless, though it may entertain some. Canon's business models and product pipelines fall into the category of "things we can't change" except in the very gross way of buying or not buying.



Feb 18, 2015 at 06:00 PM
Wrei
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Canon quality control versus warranty repairs.


"You think that Canon specs should show shipping survival conditions?"

Canon does show the operational environment for the consumer:
• Operation Environment
Working temperature range: 0°C - 40°C / 32°F - 104°F
Working humidity: 85% or less

I am 99% sure they do have shipping conditions specified. Organizations specify shipping specifications for their products, however, it is not passed on to the consumer, only to suppliers/shippers.

Edit:

Shipping containers may be required to have shock sensors per the specifications by the manufacturer.



Feb 18, 2015 at 06:07 PM
Jefferson
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Canon quality control versus warranty repairs.


... An Observation ...

... If the 5D … 1DIII …. and 7DII have or had the seemingly high failure rate read about on FM … why don’t we see the same relative failure rate with the 5DII & III(s), 7D, the 1D(s) excluding the 1DIII (don’t know how the 1DsIII fares here) … ?

If shipping was a major player in the failure … wouldn’t that show across the field … ?

The 5Dc was glue along with heat and humidity … the 1DIII and 7DII sound like they may have been “Knocked” around a bit during shipping with the focus problems experienced … but the fix has too many times been “Made Electrical Adjustments” at least with the 7DII … The problems with the 7DII are disappearing with the announced 5Ds/R cameras.

Has Canon tightened up on shippers or their QC … ?


Jefferson …



Feb 18, 2015 at 06:11 PM
EB-1
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Canon quality control versus warranty repairs.


Oh brother. I think Canon needs more design control. Many of the issues in recent years are not necessarily QC related.

EBH



Feb 18, 2015 at 06:21 PM
tuantran
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Canon quality control versus warranty repairs.


Whether it's design, quality, manufacturing, shipping etc, Canon is in the business of making money. They will balance everything out to maximize profit without ruining their long term reputation. For me, I'm sticking with Canon because so far, they have been good to me even when I had to send something back because of defects.


Feb 18, 2015 at 06:34 PM
PetKal
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Canon quality control versus warranty repairs.


Here we have yet another thread which is evolving into yet another FM CFPC (Canon Forum Pi$$ing Contest).
Do not concern yourselves about issues you know little to nothing about, unless you work in Canon Inc.'s camera division. Besides, to us as consumers, what the hell does it matter what is causing the problem with 7DII ? Is it design, or fabrication, or parts procurement or whatever ? That is what Canon is paid by us consumers to figure out and fix.

We as consumers ought to worry about two issues:
(1) Is there a systemic problem with 7DMkII ?
(2) If so, how to exert pressure on Canon to fess up, and fix the problem in an orderly and timely manner, as opposed to hit-and-miss "warranty repairs".

In light of that, the substance of Markle's topic makes sense, and such topics are needed. Every bit of public exposure of the problem helps. People like myself not buying 7DMkII because of AF concerns.....that helps too. Unfortunately, Canon needs to have their backs against the wall before they start taking a systematic remedial action. That seems to be an unfortunate aspect of their corporate ethos where a mistake is a very shameful thing, and persistent denials are seen as an expedient.



Feb 18, 2015 at 06:37 PM
Wrei
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Canon quality control versus warranty repairs.


Oh yeah, one other shipping factor. For over a year, there has been a labor dispute with the longshore union on the west coast. Currently there is a major slowdown and those folks have been unhappy for quite a while...Hmm.


Feb 18, 2015 at 06:46 PM
arbitrage
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Canon quality control versus warranty repairs.


Lest we forget that 1000s of 1DXs were recalled for AF issue (or dirty particle issue). Of course I think the 1DX thing happened fairly quickly as many large sports photography agencies probably put some pressure on Canon. We will see if such pressure will come from the cliental of the 7D2. So far all the Canon gurus like Mr. Morris and Mr. Kelby have working copies so maybe their won't be as much "powerful" pressure on Canon to fix the 7D2.

In the meantime I'll go along happily shooting my perfectly working copy of the 7D2 and just enjoy the turmoil on the forums



Feb 18, 2015 at 06:49 PM
Jefferson
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Canon quality control versus warranty repairs.


... methinks another 1Ds2 is in the Q for me ......


Jefferson ...



Feb 18, 2015 at 06:53 PM
PetKal
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Canon quality control versus warranty repairs.


Jefferson wrote:
... methinks another 1Ds2 is in the Q for me ......

Jefferson ...


That's not a bad plan, but are you considering 1DMkIV too ? A very capable camera and well within the Canon's operating life (and service) horizon.



Feb 18, 2015 at 07:02 PM
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