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Archive 2015 · Dignity: Do we owe it to our subjects?

  
 
RustyBug
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Dignity: Do we owe it to our subjects?


As to the homeless and the veteran correlation ... I'm a disabled vet and a TBI survivor both. Fortunately, I've never had to be on the street. Although, I have been in it's neighborhood a couple times along the way.

My point isn't for anyone to feel anything for me ... but to point out that the closer one is to a situation personally, the less likely they are to be devoid of respect and dignity for someone else in such a situation, or to have an exploitative nature for it. That doesn't mean you have to have been "down & out", but folks that tend to NOT be exploitative at least put their mind into what it would be like to be in another person's shoes.


If you're a hipster with camera, jonesin' for the en vogue street scene, jackin' up your portfolio and likes on FB and Flickr with pics of unfortunate individuals ... yeah, your the bomb. Go work the soup kitchen, the shelter or the mission (without a camera) for a while ... (end rant).

To each his own ... I have my opinion of what constitutes exploitation. I'm sure everyone else has their own as well. Lots of ways to be exploitative ... just check it before you hit the "post" button ... at least, if you care about the matter at all.



Feb 05, 2015 at 06:28 PM
airfrogusmc
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Dignity: Do we owe it to our subjects?


What about the serious documentary photographer doing a photo essay on the effect of war on veterans?


Feb 06, 2015 at 06:47 PM
friscoron
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Dignity: Do we owe it to our subjects?



That's completely different from what Kent described. In your concept, photographing a homeless war vet would be responsible journalism.



Feb 06, 2015 at 07:09 PM
airfrogusmc
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Dignity: Do we owe it to our subjects?


And my argument is sometimes we have to tolerate the 100 that aren't to get to the one that is responsible.


Feb 06, 2015 at 08:15 PM
airfrogusmc
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Dignity: Do we owe it to our subjects?


And Chuck here's another point of view from what some might consider an exploiter and one of the greats.
"Photography is not cute cats, nor nudes, motherhood or arrangements of manufactured products. Under no circumstances it is anything ever anywhere near a beach." - Walker Evans

So for everyone saying A is this or that someone else is saying B is this or that. Just create honestly, how you feel and see the world and seriously DO NOT worry about it. No matter what you do, especially if you are creating something worth while, you are probably going to find someone that doesn't think it is right. The cream always rises to the top and if it is truly good then it will stand the test of time. Evans surely has.




Feb 07, 2015 at 02:29 PM
nolaguy
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Dignity: Do we owe it to our subjects?


Definitely a worthwhile thread (as Chuck's so often are) not necessarily for any single conclusion to be drawn – but because as with anything important in life, if we don’t ponder such things and develop a personal point-of-view and perspective beforehand, when faced with unexpected situations we may regret our shooting decisions in the moment.

This has always been the case with photography (and any other matter wherein people wield power or have an impact on others) but the fallout of photography is so friggin amplified in this technological age where there is barely a shred of privacy left and our life moments are perpetually captured in some fashion (we have no control over) and can instantaneously become a permanent (and increasingly searchable) record in humanity’s archive.

Family photos used to be family photos, curated by our grandmothers and visible only to those sitting on her living room sofa. We’re now all celebrities and accidental victims to the camera phone/Facebook paparazzi.

This group takes photography more seriously than 98% of the population. One hope is that in our behaviors, expressions of respect, ethics and sensitivity we might be good ambassadors and examples to each other and to the point-and-shoot masses, rather than high-profile demonstrations of carelessness or poor taste.

I, for one, need to get better at this.



Feb 07, 2015 at 08:24 PM
airfrogusmc
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Dignity: Do we owe it to our subjects?


I think the most important element is we as photographer owe in our personal work is the truth as we see it. The book by James Joyce "A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man" is partially about his struggle with self censorship and whether to go against his religious upbringing and tell the truth. All artists struggle with this. Thank God Joyce decided the truth. Do you tell the truth or do you beautify everything? The camera club calendar/art aesthetic is to make everything beautiful. No surprise that documentary work or the work of Bresson, Winogrand Frank and the work of portrait artists like Newman usually get little love from that crowd. It's OK. It's a big world and room for a lot of stuff.

Part of the problem we have today is there are so many people making images because of the ease of it technically but there is little understanding of the history of the art form. And this is a reason we keep having conversations about issues that were settled in photography decades ago.



Feb 08, 2015 at 11:02 AM
RustyBug
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Dignity: Do we owe it to our subjects?


airfrogusmc wrote:
Part of the problem we have today is there are so many people making images because of the ease of it technically but there is little understanding of the history of the art form.


I'm meeting with a museum curator this afternoon on this very subject.

The photographic community often complains about the lack of acceptance by the art community ... yet, this very point is something that we (the community at large) clearly put on display as self-induced, evidence of that void with inundating fervor.

Kids in school have infinite creative license with finger painting ... as does everyone in their chosen medium. Creative license alone @ "because I can" is not the Holy Grail of art. Yet for many, the ease of their unbridled license (and PS) to create is the very thing that retards them from growing their understanding. I think that the art community is able to see this disconnect much more clearly than many photographers would ever admit to, as they are in love with their own creative license (self-included @ guilty as charged).


TagRB



Feb 08, 2015 at 11:14 AM
airfrogusmc
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Dignity: Do we owe it to our subjects?


I think some of the greatest works of art, in all art forms, wouldn't have been created if the artist wasn't true to his/her vision. How can anyone truly create if first they are worried about who they are going to offend. What will grow their understanding is learning about what has come before.

Almost all great artists are first really fans of the art form they create in. Thus the learn all they can about the art form. The great musicians usually know and many were influenced by the greats that came before. Most great movie directors are all big fans and most know the history of their art form. It's still that way in photography just many of the forum kings and queens have no clue. But there is a huge world outside that cave.

"It seems dangerous to be a portrait artist who does commissions for clients because everyone wants to be flattered, so they pose in such a way that there’s nothing left of truth." - Henri Cartier-





Feb 08, 2015 at 11:43 AM
Danpbphoto
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Dignity: Do we owe it to our subjects?


airfrogusmc wrote:
Some truth in these statements and yes veterans have a very large % of homeless when compared to other groups and that is a crime n my opinion.

We used to have a saying when i was in:
Ain't no use in going home
Jody's got you gal and gone

He had your gal your slot in college, job and a 2, 4 or 6 year head start on life back home.


Yeah that damn Jody was reaking havoc when I was in also Allen!! Lyrics a bit different but the culprit the same..ageless as Dorian Grey.
S/F Marine!
Dan




Feb 08, 2015 at 11:53 AM
airfrogusmc
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Dignity: Do we owe it to our subjects?


LoL. Almost everyone in my squadron overseas got one of those letters from back home. Ya know I really love you BUT....


Feb 08, 2015 at 12:01 PM
Mongrel
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Dignity: Do we owe it to our subjects?


airfrogusmc wrote:
I think some of the greatest works of art, in all art forms, wouldn't have been created if the artist wasn't true to his/her vision. How can anyone truly create if first they are worried about who they are going to offend. What will grow their understanding is learning about what has come before.

Almost all great artists are first really fans of the art form they create in. Thus the learn all they can about the art form. The great musicians usually know and many were influenced by the greats that came before. Most great movie directors are all
...Show more

This ^ is a damn fine post...

I've been trying to think of a way to approach this thread that would not just parrot something already said, yet add something of value. Not quite sure I'll reach that goal but here goes...

At the heart of the idea of "dignity" lies the definition of it from *our* perspective. It is in essence a "moral" issue and as such a moving target in this day and age (more so I believe than it was in the past). Similarly, "exploitation" means different things to different people. At the heart of "exploitation" is the idea of some level of *illegitimate* personnel benefit. Surely a PJ will benefit from getting the "shot"-that is after-all, what they are supposed to do. To what lengths the PJ goes to "get" the shot is what determines weather they have *illegitimately* gained or not. Photographing the dead body is one thing-MOVING the dead body and surrounding it with props? Hmmmm...

As to photography in general, I think there are two distinct aspects being discussed-

1. the "creative" aspect
2. the "reproduction" aspect

In the creative role the photographer breaks the "rules", breaks new ground and forges out a name and identity for themselves by taking the art to another level.

In the reproduction role the photographer reproduces what has been done-and does it very well if they are "good"-without necessarily doing it "differently".

Some are content to get "the look"...while others spend their lives trying to find the "look". Most of us I would think are somewhere between the two-we long to reproduce a fine and well-lit portrait, while struggling with our own "eye" and the desire to share it with the world.

The best of us can actually feed and clothe ourselves along the way...




Feb 08, 2015 at 02:30 PM
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