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Archive 2015 · Dignity: Do we owe it to our subjects?

  
 
canerino
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Dignity: Do we owe it to our subjects?


I've been looking at a lot of documentary photography work lately and a question keeps coming to mind to which I do not know the answer.

Do photographers owe their subjects a certain level of dignity? At what point does documentary photography become exploitative?



Feb 05, 2015 at 09:17 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Dignity: Do we owe it to our subjects?


That will always be a personal judgment call @ personal philosophy.

Some folks have the ability to justify anything, no matter the level of exploitation involved. To which I'll even add the question regarding the integrity of the exploitation itself. Imo, there will always be those who believe the end justifies the means ...

Here's a thread that you may find of interest that to me tells something about the issue.

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1214711/0?keyword=journalist#11572537

Edited on Feb 05, 2015 at 09:53 AM · View previous versions



Feb 05, 2015 at 09:47 AM
airfrogusmc
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Dignity: Do we owe it to our subjects?


I would say this. That good documentary photography like the work of W.Eugene Smith, Robert Frank, Walker Evans, is a mirror and it can show the truth. Ugly or not. W.Eugene Smiths work in Minamata is a good example of documenting the horrible effects the Chisso Company was inflicting on the local population. I think good documentary photographers owe everyone the truth as they see it. Warts and all.

One portrait that comes to mind is a portrait by Newman of the wealthy industrialist Alfred Krupp who used slave labor from Jewish prisoners in WWII. He portrayed Krupp as the Satin he was.

I would say try and tell the truth in your work. If all we see are pretty exploitive pictures that are all lies then isn't that more obscene than showing the truth? Some awful things would not have stopped if some photographers like W.Eugene Smith and at great personal risk (he was beaten severely by agents of Chisso) had not choosen to show the world the truth.


Edited on Feb 05, 2015 at 10:09 AM · View previous versions



Feb 05, 2015 at 09:51 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Dignity: Do we owe it to our subjects?


airfrogusmc wrote:
If all we see are pretty exploitive pictures that are all lies the isn't that more obscene than showing the truth?


+1 @ showing severe, harsh or unconscionable truth is not of itself an act of exploitation.



Feb 05, 2015 at 10:04 AM
Nexu
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Dignity: Do we owe it to our subjects?


RustyBug wrote:
+1 @ showing severe, harsh or unconscionable truth is not of itself an act of exploitation.


When their is a story to be told the photographs should represent the truth. Ugly or not.


But haven't we all had enough of average Joe blow photographer trying to go around and shove a camera in the face of a homeless person so they can post it somewhere and get some "likes"?



Feb 05, 2015 at 10:28 AM
airfrogusmc
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Dignity: Do we owe it to our subjects?


Sure but haven't we also had enough of 80% of the photos posted in portrait sections on sites are just glam shots exploiting woman? I think we should just work and not worry what others are creating because almost anything can be seen as exploitive. I mean someone might think that someone posting shots of their family on a site for praise is exploitive. I am of the frame of mind if you like my work so be it. If not, so be it. I will not letting a forum decide what I am going to choose to point my camera at. Nobody else should either.

How boring would the world be if we all shot the same? Though with everyone following the same rules of comp and using the same equipment and worrying if they are being exploitive is producing a lot of work that all looks the same. Just take a look around. Hard to tell one photographers work from the next.



Feb 05, 2015 at 10:39 AM
friscoron
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Dignity: Do we owe it to our subjects?



For me as someone who had a career in journalism, the answer is very simple. If the subject is exploitative, then the documentary photography is likely to be exploitative as well.

During the Viet Nam war, Eddie Adams won a Pulitzer for his "Saigon Execution" shot. There was no dignity in the photograph, not for the victim and not for the executioner. But it told the truth of what was happening.

In today's culture, I think there are people who try to make exploitative photos so they can go viral and have their 15 minutes of internet fame. When you are trying to make an exploitative photo just for the sake of fame, there's something wrong with that. When you do it intentionally to bring notice to a cause, then maybe there's a purpose for it.

Here's Adams' exploitative pic:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/04/09/arts/10weapon-600.jpg



Feb 05, 2015 at 11:02 AM
dmacmillan
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Dignity: Do we owe it to our subjects?


I have always been uncomfortable with some street photography, especially images of the homeless. Some are obvious surreptitious grabs and unimaginative "hey look at the bum" type images.

There are those who treat their subjects with dignity. One shining example is Bob Dein (deinfaces). Check out his blog. His photos are great. He takes the time to get to know his subjects. He wants them to be new friends, not just a portrait subject. His efforts are evident in the photos, you can sense the level of trust he has established.

Check out Bob's work. He's a crackerjack photographer, but more importantly, he is a caring human being.

http://deinfaces.com/blog/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bobdeinphoto/



Feb 05, 2015 at 11:09 AM
canerino
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Dignity: Do we owe it to our subjects?


Sometimes I feel that some documentary photography uses subjects as only props to fulfill an artistic vision. In this case, I think "art" trumps "truth".

For example, Adams' photo captures an undignified action. The photographer had very little impact on the action taken place in the scene...he used his camera as a mirror...not as a tool for interpretation.



Feb 05, 2015 at 11:17 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Dignity: Do we owe it to our subjects?


Nexu wrote:
But haven't we all had enough of average Joe blow photographer trying to go around and shove a camera in the face of a homeless person so they can post it somewhere and get some "likes"?


I'm with you ... I think a litmus test is along the lines of how many times have you given someone money, bought them a meal, given them a ride, put gas in their car ... compared to how many times have you posted their picture on your blog.

When you truly care about the plight of something, you "tend" to do more than just take a picture and get paid for it (glory, accolades, likes, "oohs-ahhs" or $$$).

Personally, I'm wrestling a bit with my desire to photograph the Amish. Am I wanting to do it because A) others will like seeing the pictures, B) I want to do something that few have the opportunity to do, C) exploration and learning through my interface with the camera betters my understanding D) because there is a story that I'd like to share with the world in a respectful & dignified way or E) I want the attention it will bring to me.

Note that in all of the above ... there really isn't anything about doing anything of value for them. In fact, it challenges their belief system. The truth is that I was (slightly) exposed to the Amish as a teenager. I have a bent toward fundamentalism, so I respect them and am intrigued by them.

As it turns out, I finally met a fine young Amish artist (charcoal) yesterday whose work I've admired since I first saw one of his pieces hanging in a veterinary office. We had a brief introductory chat and he may very well serve as a conduit into the Amish community.

But, I'll only do so if I am embraced and welcomed as something that they see value in for themselves that I can provide. Because it is my belief that I can offer insight from the photographing realm of imaging making that will benefit this young man with his continued charcoal realm of image making that I can do so as a shared venture rather than a selfish one (i.e. exploitive).

But, to the question of exploitation. Personally, I try not to shoot when I feel as though I'm being exploitive. Does that mean I've passed on some shots that I really wanted to shoot ... yup. Does that mean I've never taken an exploitive shot ... nope. Does that make me good or bad ... or does it even matter what it makes me. In large regard, the world drums up its own moving target definition / expectation of what constitutes exploitation. While the connotation is perceived very differently for homeless vs. sensuality vs. celebrity vs. atrocity ... a case can be made that all of these are being exploited with regularity by photographers.

I won't pretend to know the definitive answer as a clear cut line carved in stone ... but, it is one of those things that for many folks ... you know it when you see it. Meanwhile, some are blind to it ... while others, just don't care.



Feb 05, 2015 at 11:20 AM
dmacmillan
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Dignity: Do we owe it to our subjects?


Good post Kent. Props to you for your self awareness and carefully considering your motives concerning photographing the Amish.

BTW, PBS did a great documentary on the Amish, if you haven't seen it:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/films/amish/

Now, I have to include this link. Sorry, I can't help myself.




Feb 05, 2015 at 11:33 AM
friscoron
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Dignity: Do we owe it to our subjects?


canerino wrote:
Sometimes I feel that some documentary photography uses subjects as only props to fulfill an artistic vision. In this case, I think "art" trumps "truth".


And therein lies the slippery slope. Art can be anything, it can be the farthest thing from the truth. Art can be fantasy. Art can be taking a bunch of junk and making an artistic impression with it.

I think you're really focusing on street photography, based on the photographers mentioned previously. If that's the case, can we use street documentary photography and do it in a way that a photographer might call art, but another might call exploitative? I think it's dangerous to say he can't. I think it really comes down to whether he's portraying it as documentary or as art. If it's art, I think the photographer has a lot more freedom in how he portrays a street scene.



Feb 05, 2015 at 11:35 AM
airfrogusmc
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Dignity: Do we owe it to our subjects?


I tend to stay away from homeless people. But that is a personal choice. But if I were doing a project that was focused on that part of out society then maybe I would. And I will take a photo if it makes a strong statement both visually and culturally.

Those taking images for their 15 mins will have that. And then they will fade because history is the big decider of what is or isn't good.

Don't all photographs use things as props to help fill a vision? Adams used the landscape. Penn used people. Mann used her family. Etc. Then we should never take photos or only take safe approved as OK by the masses photos?

The Adam's photo was powerful and helped change views of a war. There is also a video that was taken by someone standing right next to him. Sontag actually discusses this in her book On Photography.

The thing is, if you are creating something honest, you are always going to find those that find this or that wrong for them no matter what you are creating. If everyone likes or understands what you are doing, then you are truly playing it safe then you are making very safe images. And safe in creative field is creative suicide.

Some good words from Martha Graham.
“No artist is ahead of his time. He is the time. It is just that others are behind the time.”-Martha Graham

Almost forgot. Some years ago I read something from Winogrand saying that he thought that Bruce Davidson was exploiting blacks. When Davidson did his East 100th Street photos he lived in the neighbor for months on end and shot mostly with a view camera.

My point is some would say the image from Wingrands of a guy in a wheel chair backlit begging with people walking by not even noticing would be exploitive. Many here I would imagine would call those images exploitive while some would think the images by those people are exploitive. So who are any of us to put our beliefs like this on others and what they are creating.

I tend to believe as Ansel Adams did:
"No man has the right to dictate what other men should perceive, create or produce, but all should be encouraged to reveal themselves, their perceptions and emotions, and to build confidence in the creative spirit"

It takes a pair of them to get out on the streets. I's not always safe and comfortable out there like it is in say a studio or with your own family. Davidson was mugged and robbed more than once. Gliden is shown being hit by a woman he just photographed on a video.










Edited on Feb 05, 2015 at 12:10 PM · View previous versions



Feb 05, 2015 at 11:36 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Dignity: Do we owe it to our subjects?


dmacmillan wrote:
I have always been uncomfortable with some street photography, especially images of the homeless. Some are obvious surreptitious grabs and unimaginative "hey look at the bum" type images.


+1

This reminds me of the "The Ballad of Curtis Loew".

The young man had an intense respect for the same individual that the rest of the world did not give such credence to. Sure, he swapped his $$$ for a song or two ... but the interaction / exchange was laced with respect and dignity, not devoid of it.



Feb 05, 2015 at 11:39 AM
rodmcwha
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Dignity: Do we owe it to our subjects?


We need more pictures of the homeless-but not on a forum with a limited audience. They should be plastered on every newspaper till this country does something about the deplorable situation! We all say we support the troops-do a little research into how many of them are homeless and eventually commit suicide.
I suspect that most who say we are violating their dignity by publishing actually mean we are making us uncomfortable by having to see it! Eugene Smith didn't spend a lot of time, on a forum, worrying about lens resolution or mega-pixels. He worried about humanity!



Feb 05, 2015 at 11:59 AM
airfrogusmc
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Dignity: Do we owe it to our subjects?


Some truth in these statements and yes veterans have a very large % of homeless when compared to other groups and that is a crime n my opinion.

We used to have a saying when i was in:
Ain't no use in going home
Jody's got you gal and gone

He had your gal your slot in college, job and a 2, 4 or 6 year head start on life back home.



Feb 05, 2015 at 12:18 PM
airfrogusmc
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Dignity: Do we owe it to our subjects?


Also wanted to say there is a lot of really good street and documentary work being done today. I don't see a lot of it on say flicker and street surely gets little respect from the camera club/ calendar art aesthetic crowd. And that's OK...

Some good words by Meyerowitz and the reason I do it. I work in very controlled environments for the work that pays the bills so when I work for myself the streets are me trying to make visual clarity from chaos. Out there without plan or without a net for some and me is very exciting.
Just push the play arrow.
http://www.traileraddict.com/everybody-street/trailer





Feb 05, 2015 at 12:27 PM
Staklo
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Dignity: Do we owe it to our subjects?


Many good folk are struggling with questions related to dignity, ethics and what photographic representation means in contemporary society:
https://nppa.org/code_of_ethics
And fighting hard (they dispatched an attorney to the front lines in Ferguson to advocate for visual documentation rights) to protect photographer rights today and especially in the future:
https://nppa.org/page/5626
If you are not a member, you should consider becoming one.



Feb 05, 2015 at 01:11 PM
airfrogusmc
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Dignity: Do we owe it to our subjects?


Everyone has an opinion. There are those that photograph their families then post them on the world wide web and some might say to them you are exploiting your families. They make interesting images and sometimes their family members are used as design elements. And then they would say they are just documenting their family for their future generations. Some might then say that would be true if you chose to keep those images to only the family but once they are posted then they were doing it because they wanted something out of it like maybe praise. Some would think that was exploitive. I don't think that at all but I don't think anyone that is a photographer and posting or exhibiting should think that. Some believe they have some kind of moral authority over what is being exploited but they shouldn't because in some way it all is exploitive. Make images and think about more what you create and try not to be some kind of moral authority of what others are creating because it is very rare that any creates anything worth while that some aren't going to find fault in.


Feb 05, 2015 at 01:35 PM
boingyman
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Dignity: Do we owe it to our subjects?



airfrogusmc wrote:
Also wanted to say there is a lot of really good street and documentary work being done today. I don't see a lot of it on say flicker and street surely gets little respect from the camera club/ calendar art aesthetic crowd. And that's OK...

Some good words by Meyerowitz and the reason I do it. I work in very controlled environments for the work that pays the bills so when I work for myself the streets are me trying to make visual clarity from chaos. Out there without plan or without a net for some and me is very exciting.
...Show more

Street photography and documentary/photojournalism are two seperate genres of photography IMO even though they overlap in some form. I think this has been discussed exhaustively enough and that could be a entire seperate topic of its own.

Also the street photography community is still fairly active on flickr (yes 99.9% of it is still crap if you don't know where to find them, same could be said with any form of photography), but a lot of the active top level street photographers do post on flickr. At the same time a lot of them do not either... I don't see active documentary crowd on flickr, but maybe it's because I'm not looking for it or don't know where to find them.



airfrogusmc wrote:
Everyone has an opinion. There are those that photograph their families then post them on the world wide web and some might say to them you are exploiting your families. They make interesting images and sometimes their family members are used as design elements. And then they would say they are just documenting their family for their future generations. Some might then say that would be true if you chose to keep those images to only the family but once they are posted then they were doing it because they wanted something out of it like maybe praise. Some would
...Show more

Good post. The fine line of dignity and moral really boils down to the photographer based on what/why/how their willing to share it.



Feb 05, 2015 at 04:00 PM
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