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Archive 2015 · Concealed Carry Camera

  
 
OntheRez
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Concealed Carry Camera


I know this is an overworked question, but I'm struggling to find/decide on a "conceal carry camera." I have full size, full frame bodies and lenses for my professional work, but keep trying different things in the effort to always have a camera with me.

I've tried G7, S90, a couple of forgettable Nikons, an early Oly Pen with add on viewfinder. I currently have an excellent Oly OM-D E-5 with the Panny 12-35mm f/2.8 lens. Truly a fine camera. In fact I'd recommend the system with a couple of additional lenses as a person's only camera if they didn't need the specialized features of professional grade bodies. The problem with the OM-D is it ends up being just as much work to carry as say a 5DIII with a 35mm f/1.4L. Sure the Oly is lighter but both have to be carried with a neck strap and simply get in the way for many activities.

What am I shooting? Anything, everything, whatever catches the eye. I know I won't be doing sports or massive landscapes or action, but there are so many images in the everyday minutiae I see but never catch. Lower light performance would be a huge plus.

I do custom leather work thus I can make a pouch with belt clips so the whole thing is at my side and can be easily slipped on and off. Not really concealed but also not obvious.

At lot of research has gone into the above poll though I'm sure I've missed some. The Sony RX-1 is certainly tasty, but so spendy and no viewfinder. Other worthy candidates like the Panny LX-7 take an external EVF which just doesn't make a tight, robust package. I need a camera that still gives me a fair amount of control as I'll always shoot raw and generally in full manual mode. After having tried hard to do without, I just can't shoot without a view finder so that limits the field quite a bit. Also, I live ~150 miles from a city that might have a camera store so I guess I'm buying without trying. The handling of this camera is a key issue for me.

So please, give me your opinion and particularly if you have or have had one or more of these, I'd love to know what worked for you.

Thx
Robert



Feb 01, 2015 at 12:50 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Concealed Carry Camera


I use the RX100. When that's too big, I use an S110.


Feb 01, 2015 at 12:51 PM
jamont
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Concealed Carry Camera


I use the RX100. When that's too big, I use an iPhone.


Feb 01, 2015 at 01:52 PM
mMontag
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Concealed Carry Camera


Another vote for the RX100 - N-I-C-E camera - go to the III for a very useable (but not great) viewfinder and f2.8 aperture at the longer FL's - if needing smaller than that, I also would go to my P&S cellphone.


Feb 01, 2015 at 02:06 PM
galenapass
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Concealed Carry Camera


jcolwell wrote:
I use the RX100. When that's too big, I use an S110.


When my RX-100 is too big I use my Dick Tracy camera watch.



Feb 01, 2015 at 02:23 PM
shirozina
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Concealed Carry Camera


Just got an RX100III and it's a true 'pocket rocket' Toyed with the LX100 after having an LX5 ( very good) and LX7 ( very disappointing) but was put off by reports of so-so edges and corner performance of the lens ( a characteristic of the M43 system IME) and the main fact that it wasn't really pocketable. The RX100III is truly pocketable, has a superb lens that doesn't fall apart at the edges and 20mp of superb image quality. Maybe a tad too small in actual use but that's a nonsense complaint as it's the camera you can literally have no excuse to not have with you at all times. I mean it's imagery is on par with my old Canon 5D2 and 24-70 lens in a thing that fits in your pocket - WTF!


Feb 01, 2015 at 02:32 PM
kewlcanon
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Concealed Carry Camera


GM1 or GM5


Feb 01, 2015 at 03:25 PM
rscheffler
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Concealed Carry Camera


If you don't need a zoom, perhaps the Ricoh GR. It just lacks an EVF...


Feb 01, 2015 at 04:10 PM
jojomon11
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Concealed Carry Camera


Iphone 6


Feb 01, 2015 at 05:10 PM
Jman13
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Concealed Carry Camera


The RX100 is more compact and is a very nice camera, but I prefer the Lx100 in almost any way. It's more comfortable to hold and shoot, has a bigger sensor and slightly better image quality, a better lens, better EVF (vs the RX100III), better video (by a big margin, native 4K). It's lower resolution but the other things make it a much more enjoyable camera to me.


Feb 01, 2015 at 05:27 PM
Mitch Alland
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Concealed Carry Camera


Robert - Seems to me that most any of these cameras — RX100, Ricoh GR or anything of a similar size will do. In my view, it's how you use them: you would achieve what you want by using the LCD on the back of the camera rather than an OVF or EVF. For street photography, you can shoot with these cameras by holding them in one hand — and using the LCD only to establish, roughly, the edges of the frame and looking directly at the subject when pressing the shutter. This approach makes for a fluid approach that often results in dynamic pictures — and people don't really know whether you're taking a picture or not. Of course this also works for still subjects and cityscapes or landscapes. It's matter of habit, and one can develop the habit of not using a viewfinder just as easy as using one.

The first digital camera that I used, in 2006 when I switcher from film with an M6, was the Ricoh GRD. Using this camera without a viewfinder transformed my photography by loosening up my style — and this effect stayed with me when I went back to using cameras that have a viewfinder.



Feb 01, 2015 at 07:05 PM
pinholecam
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Concealed Carry Camera


I like the Pentax Q7 (latest model is a QS1).

Here is a thread I wrote about it :
http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/136-pentax-q/233063-tokyo-story-pentax-q7-real-world-review.html?highlight=tokyo+story


Its just fun and non-serious.
IQ is 'good enough' as a compact pns quality cam.
The 01 prime which is a 'normal' FL at 43mm f1.9 is a nice proposition as most other compacts have a fast aperture only on the wider end of the zoom.
Also allows using of other lenses for other uses and focal length effects/fun.



Feb 01, 2015 at 09:24 PM
justruss
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Concealed Carry Camera


I voted RX100, but I have an alternative on the larger side too:

Fuji X-E1 w/ 18mm f/2.

Nope, it won't fit in your jeans pocket. But without the hood it will fit in most jacket pockets. And it's small/light enough that I don't think you'd mind (or notice) it on a thin strap across the shoulder/body. It ticks the boxes: Cheap, light, EVF, manual aperture, SS dial, great low-light-- and a great lens for general, all-around, photojournalistic type shooting. Fast aperture, sharp in the middle wide open, pretty good across the frame stopped down, 28mm equiv, which is very versatile (and easy to adapt to coming from a 5D(x) w/ 35L (my other workhorse).

If you want really small, the RX100 just can't be beat. The mk3 is you need the viewfinder (but it's pricey). If you want to go up a bit, the X-E1 (cheap!) and 18mm (cheap!) used are hard to beat for this kind of use.



Feb 02, 2015 at 04:36 AM
kahren
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Concealed Carry Camera


what focal length do you like? how big does it need to be?

nokia 1020
samsung nx mini
any of the smaller mirrorless with a pancake




Feb 02, 2015 at 05:33 AM
DaveOls
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Concealed Carry Camera


In between the size of the RX 100 and LX 100 is the Canon G7x. I don't know how the IQ is compared to either the Sony or Panasonic though. I bought a Sony RX 100 I a few months ago and really like it. It's size is harder to hold and it does not have much in the way of external controls. The LX 100 is larger and uses a cropped 4/3rds sensor.


Feb 02, 2015 at 07:21 AM
OntheRez
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Concealed Carry Camera


The Sony certainly leads the voting and I appreciate everyone who took the time to contribute. The external "experts" also rate the Sony highly, but many here (and in reviews) note that while it is the smallest it also has the least external control. I suspect the one is a requirement of the other.
I've tried carrying around my Oly with a single lens (20mm f/1.7) and have concluded I need some zoom capability. Needn't be extreme: 24-70/90 but at least max Av of f/2.8. The GR (and the Merrill) both are excellent tools, but a single focal length is too limiting for me. As for what I'll shoot? Anything. Everything. Whatever. I don't expect it to provide the greatest IQ or performance. If those are needed for a subject then I take a "real" camera. In looking at the size comparisons between the Sony and the Panny, there's no doubt which is smaller. It's also obvious that control is mostly in menus. I like the idea of having manual control of things and I think the LX viewfinder is rated better.

As for my iPhone, I use it a lot in documenting things: what wire went where, how was this put together, etc., but don't think of it for other things.

Robert



Feb 02, 2015 at 11:57 AM
millsart
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Concealed Carry Camera


Jman13 wrote:
The RX100 is more compact and is a very nice camera, but I prefer the Lx100 in almost any way. It's more comfortable to hold and shoot, has a bigger sensor and slightly better image quality, a better lens, better EVF (vs the RX100III), better video (by a big margin, native 4K). It's lower resolution but the other things make it a much more enjoyable camera to me.



LX100 is a pretty good camera overall, no disagreement there,but main thing that struck me with it is was its size.

It simply isn't gong to fit into a pocket the way the RX100 can, and as such, offered no unique carrying advantage over a ton of other smaller camera options to me.

To me, its a pretty black and white divide, either its true pocketable, or its not. There are no points for being pretty small, or almost pocketable, or ski parka pocketable etc.

Either I can slip a camera into my pants pocket and essentially forgot its there, or I'm carrying a camera by other means, such as around my neck/shoulder or in a small bag.

Now, nothing wrong with straps or shoulder bags, I happily use them quite often, but when I'm prepared to do that, well....then the options are vast in APC-S and ICLC m4/3 land, and in that field, I don't think the LX100 holds up as well, at least personally.

RX100 isn't perfect, but its the only camera I've owned that fits into the gap between either not wanting to even take a camera, and as such, use my Iphone, but also not wanting to commit to carrying an "actual" camera.

My iPhone has gotten some pretty good pics, and with stitching apps etc, it can actually do a lot. I have found no real benefit/need in carrying a typical P&S anymore. Just extra stuff in the pocket with no real IQ benefit. RX100 is enough of a camera it can present a pretty clear leap over the iPhone IQ though, as a "real" camera should.

To me, carrying the LX100 though didn't really make me feel I was gaining anything over carrying, say a Sony A6000. Camera like the A6000 has a better EVF, much faster AF, better IQ with its larger 24meg sensor, and a range of focal length options.

Main thing I liked about the LX100 was the video, but I simply don't do enough video to really need a $899 video camera, even if its pretty amazing we can now get a 4k camera under $1000



Feb 02, 2015 at 12:30 PM
millsart
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Concealed Carry Camera


OntheRez wrote:
The Sony certainly leads the voting and I appreciate everyone who took the time to contribute. The external "experts" also rate the Sony highly, but many here (and in reviews) note that while it is the smallest it also has the least external control. I suspect the one is a requirement of the other.
I've tried carrying around my Oly with a single lens (20mm f/1.7) and have concluded I need some zoom capability. Needn't be extreme: 24-70/90 but at least max Av of f/2.8. The GR (and the Merrill) both are excellent tools, but a single focal length is too
...Show more


Question I would ask is actually how much control do you need in a P&S type of shooting ?

Does the RX100 have a control layout anything close to a camera I'd consider near ideal, like the XT1 ? Not even close, but...... its never really been an issue for me because I simply don't need to adjust that much.

I shoot mine mostly in Av mode, wide open. Little real point/need in stopping down with a 1" sensor. EV is easy to adjust, either via the front control ring, or a down press on the back control ring and then turn right/left. Should I need to adjust Av, I can do it either via the front ring (if so set) or rear dial, and as I said, I usually see little benefit/need for it.

When I want to switch from Auto ISO its programmed via the custom Fn Button. I can also set the Function button to bring up things like DR, WB etc, but again, for what it is, how often do I mess with that stuff ? Not at all

Now granted, it takes 2 button presses should I want to switch something like the drive mode, but again, do I really need find I'm switching from one shot to 10 fps shooting modes on a 1" pocket camera ? No, and again, they are simply 2 button clicks away in the rare time I want to change to 2 second timer etc.

Again, I do understand and appreciate a good control interface, and there is no way I'd want to try to shoot something like a wedding without my tried and true Nikon DSLR's, as the interface and controls just works, but am I ever going to use the RX100 for a wedding ? Sure hope not lol.

I guess to me it comes down to number of shots I plan to take....

maybe 5 or less shots expected, spur of the moment stuff, iPhone

maybe 10-20 shots, basically chance there is something I want a decent quality photo of, but not really expecting to do a lot of shooting, RX100. Anything larger, even a mirrorless, just will be annoying to carry for the 95% of the time I'm not shooting

actual photo outing where I think I'll be actively using a camera ? A7, XT100, RX1. I want a real camera, but small/light as carrying DSLR's around for pleasure shooting isn't very fun

paid photo work ? Nikon D3s's and full bag of gear




Feb 02, 2015 at 12:48 PM
shirozina
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Concealed Carry Camera


What Millsart said.
If you want pocketable the LX100 is not. I had a GX7 which with a small lens is not much bigger than an LX100 but the Image quality of the RX100III at base ISO is superior to the GX7 in my experience. If you want good Low light / high ISO capability any compact camera is the wrong tool.



Feb 02, 2015 at 12:53 PM
darrellc
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Concealed Carry Camera


Buy and try a used RX100. Consider it a rental and if you sell it before they depreciate further or the mark iv comes out, you probably won't lose much, if anything, if you don't like it.

I had the RX100 v1 and v2, but never used them after getting the GM1 and now GM5. The RX100 has the advantage of being pocketable, but the v3 has grown further in weight and thickness (I tried it and felt noticeable to me).

The key problem is that I never enjoyed the experience of using them as cameras. I've decided that I'd rather use my iPhone 6 camera if pocketability is a must. Even a GM1 or especially the GM5 provide a much better user experience as a camera. Something like the LX100 or X100T (I'm trying an X100T now) is even better.

So for me, RX100 is in no-man's land. I'll go for camera phone only, or step up to GM1/GM5/LX100/X100T in a jacket pocket, pouch or shoulder bag with a wrist strap on it. Still unobtrusive compared to a bigger camera hanging around your neck, and I actually enjoy using it when I pull it out.

GM1/5 makes a nice backup body to your Olympus and you can attach it to another lens and avoid lens swaps for occassional use for only a couple hundred grams.



Feb 02, 2015 at 01:22 PM
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