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Archive 2015 · D800 impact damage/cracked frame

  
 
MaryO
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p.13 #1 · p.13 #1 · D800 impact damage/cracked frame


Bill: Yes, that helped. I'm understanding a little bit better now.

Armando: Thank you so much for your input. The focus issue with the heron isn't isolated to that lens; it's with every single lens I put on the camera (24-70, primes, zooms). As far as the portrait, it was a friend's Sigma 85 1.4. He wanted me to see the sharpness, but it demonstrated my focus problems instead. It was one of several photos I (and others) took trying to see if there was any way it wouldn't happen. I don't know for that particular photo, but I tried both AF-s, and AF-c; we even went outside for best light. Every shot was focused directly on his eye every time.



Jan 30, 2015 at 10:52 AM
MikeW
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p.13 #2 · p.13 #2 · D800 impact damage/cracked frame


did you micro fine tune the siggy 85? All sigma lenses I have owned have required to be adjusted, I wouldn't expect to work straight out of the box so to speak.


Jan 31, 2015 at 01:22 AM
MaryO
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p.13 #3 · p.13 #3 · D800 impact damage/cracked frame


No, I didnt, Mike. It wasn't my lens; just a friends' who wanted me to see how sharp it was. The focus issue had been intermittent with any lens I used.


Jan 31, 2015 at 12:39 PM
AnnJS
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p.13 #4 · p.13 #4 · D800 impact damage/cracked frame


Is it possible that the cracked frame already existed when you first received your D800 because those very weak chassis might easily get broken during original shipment? That might explain the intermittant focusing problems that you experienced all along.

I do find it reprehensible that Nikon USA are refusing to repair cameras which are still within their Warranty period when they obviously know that the D800 chassis was compromised and was therefore strengthened for the D810.



Jan 31, 2015 at 12:56 PM
trenchmonkey
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p.13 #5 · p.13 #5 · D800 impact damage/cracked frame


Is it possible that the cracked frame already existed when you first received your D800 because those very weak chassis might easily get broken during original shipment?
Y'all make it seem like a WIDESPREAD problem. It's not. Note the pics on page 1, the crack
is is 2 different places. Abuse: like dropping the camera/tripod falling over/unsupported
superteles hangin' off the mount, etc....will rear it's ugly head various ways. Treat your gear
as the precision machine that it is and enjoy a long & prosperous relationship. I don't baby
ANY of my 7 DSLR's, but I respect them...while employing a modicum of common sense.



Jan 31, 2015 at 03:24 PM
MaryO
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p.13 #6 · p.13 #6 · D800 impact damage/cracked frame


Thank you for your input, trenchmonkey. While I do have a little more than a modicum of common sense, I do baby my equipment and I respect it as well. I have not dropped it nor has it fallen off a tripod. I don't even own a supertele to attach unsupported. But then again, I respect it and wouldnt do that. As I respect you and your word when you say you treat it like the precision instrument it is. That makes two of us.


Jan 31, 2015 at 03:39 PM
trenchmonkey
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p.13 #7 · p.13 #7 · D800 impact damage/cracked frame


Mary, my sympathies and I'm sorry I can offer no explanation to your chassis issue.
My reply was directed at AnnJS for trying to make more of this than it is. The way UPS
kicks the livin' crap out of every box in their path, it's amazing that 99% arrive unscathed.
But they do, and the majority of D800/D800e shooters are very happy campers. This is the
first I've heard of a "weak chassis" and I'm kinda into all this shite as an everyday shooter,
and early adopter. After two years with mine and over 50 yrs with never needing 'servicing'
of any kind...you may color me skeptical. Wish you GL in getting it repaired, sooner than later.



Jan 31, 2015 at 03:56 PM
James Markus
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p.13 #8 · p.13 #8 · D800 impact damage/cracked frame


Mary, Since the camera is broken and no longer covered - perhaps some self repair will salvage it from the useless bin. I would not try and use any epoxy glue like JB weld, because it is impossible to get the cracked edges to mesh up tightly with a thick glue like that - plus hold it in position as it dries. I would attach a long(6-8 inch) 1/4" 20 thread per inch rod into the tripod socket and see if you can push down on the body (supported on a folded towel on a sturdy table or bench) and see if by firm pressure you can cause the crack to mate up tightly if only for the briefest second. If it naturally falls back to it's original position. Then I would have one person hold it under that pressure while another person places tiny droplets of crazy glue (cyanoacrylate adhesive) into the crack by letting them wick off the tip of a tooth pick into the crack - as it is being held in it's final position. Hold it for 60-120 seconds, and it should hold. Since liquid cyanoacrylate adhesives don't usually fill gaps well - I would continue every few hours to wick more tiny droplets into one side of the crack at a time until it fills the crack completely - and do the other side of the crack the next time. That way the new glue won't dissolve the first few droplets used to tack weld the crack back into place. I also would not use the tripod socket again. If you think about the weight of decent size lense - and how that acts as a lever on the very spot that has cracked. I just would not use the tripod socket again. Good luck.

Edited on Jan 31, 2015 at 04:09 PM · View previous versions



Jan 31, 2015 at 04:06 PM
trenchmonkey
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p.13 #9 · p.13 #9 · D800 impact damage/cracked frame


Nice potential fix, James.


Jan 31, 2015 at 04:07 PM
RLDubbya
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p.13 #10 · p.13 #10 · D800 impact damage/cracked frame


AnnJS wrote:
Is it possible that the cracked frame already existed when you first received your D800 because those very weak chassis might easily get broken during original shipment? That might explain the intermittant focusing problems that you experienced all along.

I do find it reprehensible that Nikon USA are refusing to repair cameras which are still within their Warranty period when they obviously know that the D800 chassis was compromised and was therefore strengthened for the D810.


If you're going to make statements like "those very weak chassis might easily get broken during original shipment", please, please provide some kind of engineering analysis which backs up your position. Don't drag this forum down to the level of other forums.



Jan 31, 2015 at 04:24 PM
Ho1972
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p.13 #11 · p.13 #11 · D800 impact damage/cracked frame


RLDubbya wrote:
If you're going to make statements like "those very weak chassis might easily get broken during original shipment", please, please provide some kind of engineering analysis which backs up your position. Don't drag this forum down to the level of other forums.


I think the incidence of cracked D800 frames has become common enough that we've moved beyond the anecdotal evidence stage into the realm of a high probability of an engineering failure. Cracks occurring in numerous bodies, in the same location, typically with no (admission of) flagrant mishandling of the camera seems beyond coincidence. Whether merely shipping a body can damage it is unknown but to say (at least some of) the frames are weak seems to be no exaggeration.

Thom Hogan's thoughts:
I've also gotten a number of reports of dropped D800's being determined by Nikon as "beyond repair." This happens because a particular section on the back side of the metal frame breaks, and when it does, it would require complete teardown to parts and a complete rebuild from parts. Worse still, a broken frame can result in the sensor, lens mount, and AF system being misaligned, making the camera unusable as well as unfixable. This is the first time I've heard of Nikon's metal framing ever breaking like this, and I know NikonUSA forwarded this information to corporate. Indeed, the D810 frame is thicker and takes less of a turn in this same area, so it seems clear to me that Nikon changed the design, and probably to avoid broken frames. Further, all of the D800 cracks are completely across the frame (separation), and all in a small area just adjacent to a tight bend on a thin portion. It’s unclear to me how “force” could produce such a break, and it seems also clear that it would take a huge amount of force. I would expect that cameras with broken frames would show other damage, but that has not been the case in four of the broken frame complaints I’ve examined. In two, there seems to be no other damage.






Edited on Jan 31, 2015 at 05:43 PM · View previous versions



Jan 31, 2015 at 05:39 PM
MaryO
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p.13 #12 · p.13 #12 · D800 impact damage/cracked frame


Thank you so much for your suggestions, James. My issues had been ongoing for months and it was still under warranty when I sent it in for the focus to be repaired and that's when I was told the frame was cracked. I couldn't believe it. They returned it to me saying the warranty was void due to heavy impact damage despite me not dropping or abusing it and it having virtually no external damage. I challnged it, and was asked to send it back. I'm still waiting to hear from them, so Nikon has it now.

I certainly hope it doesn't come to that, though. Although your solutions are better than nothing, I can't imagine paying $3000 for a camera, babying it and having to glue it together with crazy glue, baby it more and not have use of the tripod mount.

re:Engineering analysis: I am no engineer, but I have read what hans had posted earlier as well as what had been discussed in another forum (where someone had cross posted) and it was very concerning to me, particularly when one person contributing opened up a D810 and it was obviously reinforced in the exact same area (rear casting) where my camera and others had broken. If it was not a problem, why would nikon redesign that area and reinforce that specific part?

As far as it not being widespread, I have not conducted a widespread survey, but it became suspicious to me when the first hit I got on an Internet search for "D800 for parts only" after being told by Nikon that my camera was beyond repair was one with a break in the exact same part (not exact same position, but millimeters away).

That's when I posted here, and since then I have personally corresponded with 7 or 8 others who have had the same break. They were also told beyond repair, and just replaced them.

That was very curious to me.. Why would someone just accept and move on? That quesrion was also posed on the other forum when someone asked "why selective consumerism?" posing the quesrion that if it was a car (in warranty or even out!) with no exterior damage, used as indicated and not abused, but suddenly wasn't workijg and was found to have a major interior component cracked in half, no one would accept that. Why with a camera?

That bothered me too.. And I thought about it and I think I may have the answer: Most people who own a D800 are professionals, and of those, most are seasoned professionals. But not all. There are some hobbyists and some "just starting" professionals like me. I'd been a hobbyist for years, but recently started a full time business.

This was my first full frame body. I researched and saved for a long time. It was a big deal to me. I'm not saying it wasn't to the others, but most of the folks I spoke with had other backup bodies, they'd switched out and tried out so many different models over the years, and it's not a big deal to try one, see it and and get another. And they have insurance. That was going to my next purchase after my warranty expired, but unfortunately I never got there.

So there have been others, quite a few. The difference is they have backups and full coverage and just wrote it off to insurance and moved on ..until they heard of others, and are now speaking up.. so it was more of a nuisance to them. But yes, there are others.

I'm not saying the others took it lightly, but again, they had backup and coverage, wrote it off and moved on. I don't have that luxury and the business that i started has come to an abrupt halt. That's why you're hearing more from me.



Jan 31, 2015 at 05:40 PM
EB-1
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p.13 #13 · p.13 #13 · D800 impact damage/cracked frame


Keep pressing Nikon on this.

EBH



Jan 31, 2015 at 06:11 PM
RLDubbya
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p.13 #14 · p.13 #14 · D800 impact damage/cracked frame


Ho1972 wrote:
Whether merely shipping a body can damage it is unknown



Thank you for essentially agreeing with the only claim that I made in my post - nobody has provided any grounds in this thread, nor in any other forum including St. Thom's, to think that a d800 body shipped from the factory could suffer this damage, merely from being shipped. The entire point of the posts in this thread related to the attachment of the body to a tripod, and having a lever-arm moment provided via a heavy enough lens. No body is shipped from Nikon in this manner.




Jan 31, 2015 at 06:19 PM
Ho1972
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p.13 #15 · p.13 #15 · D800 impact damage/cracked frame


RLDubbya wrote:
Thank you for essentially agreeing with the only claim that I made in my post

The hat tip was intentional. You're welcome.



Jan 31, 2015 at 06:32 PM
hans98ko
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p.13 #16 · p.13 #16 · D800 impact damage/cracked frame


Mary,
Keep your hopes high because I am sure someone within Nikon have seen this discussion here and on other forums, so I am sure they will make a sound decision on a case by case basis for the time being until the corporate management make a final overall decision for this issue. A case by case decision is needed is because Nikon USA cannot and will not make an overall decision without the corporate HQ approval.
I am very sure your issue will be handled admirably without causing more damage to the corporate image at an economic low time like this.

If any organization wanted to know how to design and build an automated test fixture to test force induced stress can cause metal fatigue that produce this kind of cracks with just the mass of the camera and an average sized lens starting from 800-900 grams, simulating human movements hiking on a trial with the system over the shoulder on a tripod or monopod without any kind of impact sustained. I would be glad to provide my suggestions and opinions based on my in depth knowledge of test equipments used by various industries.
Hans



Jan 31, 2015 at 11:51 PM
MaryO
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p.13 #17 · p.13 #17 · D800 impact damage/cracked frame


FYI.. I got my camera back from Nikon last week.. Repaired and good as new. No more focus issues whatsoever and working perfectly. I was told the casting is replaced. I'm debating whether to sell it and trade for an 810 given the concerns for the integrity of the design, or baby it even more than I had. Just not sure if I can take that loss right now. Reading back, there were pros and cons of whether or not an L-plate or battery pack would help reinforce the frame somewhat or weaken it. Thoughts?

Thank you all again for your support/advice/suggestions on this. I'm hoping the situation sheds some light on things and helps others with the same issue
Mary



Feb 08, 2015 at 11:48 AM
ronno
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p.13 #18 · p.13 #18 · D800 impact damage/cracked frame


So, what was the total cost to you for this repair?
(I see many D800s used for great prices, but this is a worrisome liability...)



Feb 08, 2015 at 11:58 AM
MaryO
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p.13 #19 · p.13 #19 · D800 impact damage/cracked frame


really? You've seen them used for great prices?! I must be looking in the wrong places.. I'm seeing an average of about $1500, which is almost a 50% loss from what I paid a year ago.. So it'd cost close to $1500 for me to upgrade to a camera with a durable frame, something I thought I was getting when I bought the D800. The good news is Nikon did the right thing and covered it under warranty. Aside from this issue, I do love the camera. ..but like you said, it's a very worrisome (and costly!)liability


Feb 08, 2015 at 02:19 PM
AnnJS
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p.13 #20 · p.13 #20 · D800 impact damage/cracked frame


Excellent news Mary!

The big lesson here is that you refused to take "No" for an answer and persisted in your very reasonable request that Nikon should honour their Warranty.

It is not necessary to reach for the nearest attorney when something like this happens: just being persistent, polite and friendly to the Nikon staff will eventually achieve what you want.

You may find that the replaced chassis in your D800 is indeed stronger than the one that broke.

Worth remembering is that those D800 cameras were in production during the double tragedies of the Tsunami and the Ayudhaya flooding in Thailand (with the ensuing disruption to supplies and power-failures) so it is not impossible that a whole batch of chassis-castings were compromised during manufacture.

The fact that Nikon came through for you does a lot to reassure me about the integrity of the company.

Hopefully, other D800 owners will have read your story and will follow your example but if I had a D800, which was still under warranty, I would definitely be removing its base-plate to check on the condition of its chassis!




Feb 08, 2015 at 03:41 PM
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