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Archive 2015 · HSS vs. No HSS for Action

  
 
Sheldon N
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · HSS vs. No HSS for Action


Your image above is shot at f/8, ISO 50 and shutter speed 1/100. Let's convert those settings into what you could conceivably do with a B1 and HSS.

You had 1 stop of headroom against the sync speed, so you could have actually used half the flash power.... let's call it f/8, ISO 100, 1/200. With roughly 200-250 Ws to play with, (full power in HSS mode at the sync speed), you could create that look with a medium sized softbox at perhaps 6-8 feet, or a hard reflector at 10-15 feet, or a high efficiency reflector at maybe 20-25 feet (just guessing based on experience).

Now what HSS allows you to do is take that f/8 ISO 100 1/200 exposure and lighting ratio against ambient and play around with shutter speed and DOF - all without changing the lighting ratio. You could change your settings to get a cool shallow DOF by shooting at f/1.4 and 1/3000 ISO 100 and keep the same lighting ratio/look. You could also try to keep more DOF but freeze motion by shooting at f/4 and 1/6000 at ISO 800 - you'd have a little grain from the ISO bump but still decent image quality.

So yes, the B1 will recreate that look.



Feb 04, 2015 at 12:51 AM
Doug Maclean
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · HSS vs. No HSS for Action


This is a shot that that could have been taken a number of ways.I used HSS Not an action shot though Doug M







Feb 04, 2015 at 05:04 AM
dahicks
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · HSS vs. No HSS for Action


A link to Dave Black shooting motocross using 8 speedlights in HSS. Combined the 8 speedlights have about the same light output as 1 Profoto B1. https://fstoppers.com/strobe-light/dave-black-shooting-motorcross-8-speedlights-7501


Feb 04, 2015 at 08:11 AM
Gregg Heckler
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · HSS vs. No HSS for Action


Dave Black can certainly do a lot with Nikon Speedlights and HSS, but one would ask themselves if you want too? Note he needed 8 to do it and that's $3600 worth of lights.


Feb 04, 2015 at 04:43 PM
lamonica66
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · HSS vs. No HSS for Action


Tagging to follow and learn.

Thanks-

Matt



Feb 04, 2015 at 04:58 PM
JThomas
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · HSS vs. No HSS for Action


Here's my $.02 for using HSS for freezing action and I'd love some clarification/correction:
HSS works by pulsing the flash over the time it takes from the first curtain to open to the trailing curtain to close.
That duration is the normal sync speed:1/250th with most Nikon focal plane shutters. (If it could go faster, you would be able to sync at a higher setting)
So the flash exposure you will be getting will last about 1/250th sec.. Not exactly action-stopping.
Now, was Dave Black panning really well to get those motocross images sharp or am I missing something?



Feb 04, 2015 at 05:03 PM
Paul Buff
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · HSS vs. No HSS for Action


Sheldon N wrote:
My issue is that your comments are twisted in reverse of the same argument. Your logic is that the math says the flash only puts out 8Ws @ 1/8000, and 8ws is barely any flash power, so it is an ineffective tool to compete with the sun. That argument totally ignores the reality of how the flash would be used or the parallel effect that increasing shutter speed has on the "power" of the ambient sunlight. The reality is that you set your lighting ratio and increasing the shutter speed doesn't hurt your ratio.



But that's not what I said. Once you are in HSS mode you lose half of your flashpower and ability to compete with ambient. Beyond that, the flash/ambient ratio remains constant so offers no advantage (or disadvantage) to compete with ambient is ever achieved with HSS. I agree decreasing exposure time, once you are in HSS doesn't further alter ambient/flash ratio - the "parallel effect". but it doesn't help it either.



Feb 04, 2015 at 05:22 PM
ukphotographer
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · HSS vs. No HSS for Action


JThomas wrote:
Here's my $.02 for using HSS for freezing action and I'd love some clarification/correction:
HSS works by pulsing the flash over the time it takes from the first curtain to open to the trailing curtain to close.
That duration is the normal sync speed:1/250th with most Nikon focal plane shutters. (If it could go faster, you would be able to sync at a higher setting)
So the flash exposure you will be getting will last about 1/250th sec.. Not exactly action-stopping.
Now, was Dave Black panning really well to get those motocross images sharp or am I missing something?


The ambient exposure you will be getting will be between 1/250s and 1/8000s depending on where you set your shutter... When at 1/8000s you are not using 1/250s blurry ambient. Same thing when using HSS flash. It's no longer a freeze motion flash but instead its ambient. The shutter does the action stopping.



Feb 04, 2015 at 05:47 PM
Sheldon N
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · HSS vs. No HSS for Action


Paul Buff wrote:
But that's not what I said.


THIS is what you said....

Paul Buff wrote:
8Ws of flashpower is just not going to do this job very well IMHO.


Paul Buff wrote:
-6f below 500Ws is a flashpower of about 8Ws so close light placement and/or very high ISO would be required .


Paul Buff wrote:
The quoted 8Ws is maximum flashpower at 1/8000 second shutter - hardly enough flashpower for stopping action at sports distances. Yes, you can shoot at ISO 12,800 if your camera can handle the quality loss.


...and then everyone refuted your comments with real world photos and examples that didn't require close light placement or shooting at ISO 12,800.

I'm not a B1 fanboy, I don't even shoot Profoto. I don't personally have a use for HSS, other than that it would be nice not to have to use an ND filter.

It's just tiresome to see a manufacturer come into a thread discussing competitor's products and to have them spread misinformation.



Feb 05, 2015 at 12:25 AM
miccullen
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · HSS vs. No HSS for Action


Sheldon N wrote:
It's just tiresome to see a manufacturer come into a thread discussing competitor's products and to have them spread misinformation.


Especially when that same manufacturer has been busted here on FM for doing that exact thing time after time after time.

(And banned from here at least a couple of times as well...)



Feb 05, 2015 at 01:18 AM
JThomas
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · HSS vs. No HSS for Action


ukphotographer wrote:
The ambient exposure you will be getting will be between 1/250s and 1/8000s depending on where you set your shutter... When at 1/8000s you are not using 1/250s blurry ambient. Same thing when using HSS flash. It's no longer a freeze motion flash but instead its ambient. The shutter does the action stopping.

It's clear to me now- (smacks head) and pretty bleeding obvious now that I think about it. Thanks!




Feb 05, 2015 at 09:40 AM
dahicks
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · HSS vs. No HSS for Action


Dave Black is using closer to $4500.00 worth of Nikon flash grear 8 flashes at $550.00 each. 1 Profoto B1 has about the same power as 8 SB-900 combined. For less than the cost of 8 speedlights, batteries, transmitter, receivers and brackets you could purchase the Profoto B1 2 light location kit with the TTL transmitter. In my opinion a much more powerful and useful system.


Feb 06, 2015 at 08:12 AM
miccullen
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · HSS vs. No HSS for Action


dahicks wrote:
Dave Black is using closer to $4500.00 worth of Nikon flash grear 8 flashes at $550.00 each. 1 Profoto B1 has about the same power as 8 SB-900 combined. For less than the cost of 8 speedlights, batteries, transmitter, receivers and brackets you could purchase the Profoto B1 2 light location kit with the TTL transmitter. In my opinion a much more powerful and useful system.


Hard to disagree with, although the flashes can be bought one at a time, I guess.



Feb 06, 2015 at 07:18 PM
hijazist
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · HSS vs. No HSS for Action


miccullen wrote:
Hard to disagree with, although the flashes can be bought one at a time, I guess.


+2... I honestly would never spend more than $100 on a speedlight. My Neweer VK750 II have been working flawlessly and I got each for $50. 3 SB910s are almost as much as a B1 as dahicks mentioned. But I guess each have their own needs.



Feb 07, 2015 at 03:12 AM
Eyvind Ness
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · HSS vs. No HSS for Action


Meanwhile, another Profoto post is out, also contains a lot of stuff about HSS:

http://www.profoto.com/blog/commercial-photography-2/blair-bunting-high-speed-sync-super-bowl

"BLAIR BUNTING USES HIGH-SPEED SYNC TO SHOOT A JAW-DROPPINGLY STUNNING SUPER BOWL COMMERCIAL"



Feb 13, 2015 at 06:55 AM
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