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Archive 2015 · About image sharpness

  
 
lutty moreira
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · About image sharpness


Hey guys!
I have a question.. I'm happy with how I've been progressing over the years with creativity, understanding of lighting and composition, etc.. but for some reason I can't get satisfied with the sharpness of my images..

Even my sharpest shots seem to be a bit soft (see examples).. A lot of them aren't super soft, but still not razor sharp as I'd like (specially the more controlled shots, ie. fashion)

It might be as simple as the lens I'm using, but I've tried some lens-camera combinations, and also different settings, stabilization methods, lighting, editing, and still I can't seem to get it right..

I've used combinations of these equipment for the images (most of them have EXIF info):
Cameras: Canon 5d and Canon 60d.
Lenses: Canon 50mm f/1.8, Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8, Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8.

Any comments/suggestions? I'd appreciate it!


Here are some examples (I tried to put also different light conditions and pp):


























Jan 14, 2015 at 05:45 PM
prairietom
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · About image sharpness


You MIGHT be asking or expecting more from the lenses than they can deliver. With the exception of the child looking around the rock corner and the next one, the child eating a cookie, they are all sharp enough for my taste. The two I cited appear to have the focus on something other than the eyes.


Jan 14, 2015 at 06:35 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · About image sharpness


My first question would be how are you performing your sharpening? What other processing are you applying? How are you sizing / resizing.

Those lenses should be suitably sharp. It also looks like you are shooting these mostly in soft light. A low contrast lighting may require more sharpening than an otherwise higher contrast lighting.

There are other influences on sharpening, but that's where I'd start.

Here's one of the books from my studies of sharpening. There are plenty or resources and a lot of diff approaches, but sharpening isn't a "one size fits all". Additionally, sharpening can be a matter of preference just as well as other attributes of processing.

http://www.amazon.com/Sharpening-Photoshop-Camera-Lightroom-Edition/dp/0321637550

As an example ...






Edited on Jan 14, 2015 at 08:50 PM · View previous versions



Jan 14, 2015 at 07:44 PM
Herb
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · About image sharpness


I apologize in advance as I am going to be brutal.....but the gear you have IMO will struggle to get you sharp images. Perhaps in the hands of the really skilled (certainly not mine) I would have extreme difficulty in getting sharp images.

It wasn't until I got my 1DsIII did I ever see images out of the camera that I would truly marvel at the sharpness. I have since seen that same sharpness in my 1Dx & 5DIII and that would be with L glass hung on them.

You don't particulaly IMO have the best lenses and you probably need to do some calibration between lens and camera. I don't think what you have has MFA capability.

You take great photos, I could only imagine and envy the photos you would get with better gear.



Jan 14, 2015 at 07:48 PM
Seanatavenitia
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · About image sharpness


In my opinion it's always better to underexpose rather than over.

Or maybe shoot at the end of your 200mm



Jan 14, 2015 at 09:03 PM
sleepy717
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · About image sharpness


I had a 60D and it seemed to produce the sharpest images of all the bodies I had at the time (60D, 7D, IDIII, 50D). I sold the 60D to my son and he's using it for school and for product photography (and seems to serve him quite well).Then I picked up a 1DMKIV. What a difference that made.

I don't think you images suffer for lace of sharpness, and I really like them.



Jan 14, 2015 at 09:37 PM
cambyses
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · About image sharpness


Do you use AF? If so, how? i.e., what AF mode, what AF area/sensors? I shoot Nikon so cannot comment on your body or glass. But the sharpness of my images were drastically improved when I started using back-button focusing and using one of the central AF points almost exclusively.


Jan 14, 2015 at 09:55 PM
Inga
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · About image sharpness


I'm with RustyBug...I'd like to know what you're doing to sharpen your images and how that varies based on your output destination (ie for web, or for print). For web usage, with a little bit more aggressive sharpening in post you should be totally fine with this gear.

That said, the gear you listed isn't going to stand up against L series glass and a pro-level body IF you are shooting at the wide end of the aperture range for those lenses.



Jan 14, 2015 at 11:28 PM
hatch1921
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · About image sharpness


Nice work all around.

Sharpness .... well... the way you post process of course can make a significant difference. Glass from my experience has a huge impact on the sharpness of an image. How steady of a shooter you are ... do you shoot on a monopod... with a tripod... hand-held? I've found even though I consider myself very steady... using a monopod with longer lenses really increased my keeper rate and improved the sharpness of my images.

Glass... in no particular order... have been my sharpest lenses.

85L II
135L
Sigma 150 and 180mm macros (can use them and often do to shoot people)
Canon 100mm macro.. .same thing... can use for people
85mm F/1.8 very sharp
50mm's.... well... Canon 50 F1/4 was very sharp after F/2.8 wonky focus.
Sigma 50 F/1.4 very sharp from f/1.8 on up... the non "art" version.

I was told early on... spend your money on good glass... as the lens hardly change... but the bodies come and go. I think it holds true. Maybe rent a few of lenses mentioned in the thread... try before you buy... and see if you notice a difference. The ability to micro adjust the camera is another big benefit towards getting everything sharp and in focus.

hope this helps... again.. very nice work!
Hatch



Jan 14, 2015 at 11:34 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · About image sharpness


+1 @ glass rules

However, while those lenses are not L lenses. They are certainly capable of producing WAY SHARPER images than we see here.

We've played this game before in the Alt Forum with some of the best glass in the world vs. some good enough glass. Yes, your starting point with greater resolving glass is more refined, but with good sharpening "matched" to the lens, you can achieve significantly better results than we are seeing here. Heck, I even pitted my 24L vs. a 30 year old Oly 24 and while the Oly needed a different sharpening amount than the L ... it made a lot of folks question why spend so much $$$ on the L (that's a whole different discussion).

I personally have the little Tammy and it is no slouch in the sharpness department. Sure, there may be sharper lenses out there, but these images are not anywhere near the limits of sharpness for the glass being used, imo. To me, this is most likely a processing issue that is undersharpening for the contrast level of the lighting and/or the other processing that accompanies it. Will the OP notice a diff in the "L" glass when he steps up the investment ... most definitely, but I just don't think the glass is his "weakest link" here.

There is also the possibility that it is a sensor cleaning issue that has left the sensors with an overall "smudge" / "film" veil to it. Curious to see how the sooc / raw files look for one of the images.

Light, glass, sensor, processing ... those are your four possible components to the process @ soft light, soft glass, soft sensor, soft processing. I am inclined to think that "soft glass" is the least involved factor for what we are seeing here.

These kinda remind me of when I first switched from a D70s shooting jpg to a 1D MK II shooting raw. It wasn't until Chuck Westfall (Canon) reviewed my soft images for me, that I realized I was underprocessing them ... and that was shooting with some good Zeiss glass ... i.e. the glass wasn't the problem, it was my processing.

Then, I got Bruce's book, combined with reading Dan Margulis and Chuck's advice ... I started to learn more, to which I would mention that sharpening is merely contrast in its variation of transition rate/size.

Looking at the last picture (OP), we see specular lighting for the hair light. Note the wisps of hair "sharpness" compared to the sharpness of the face/hair that is bathed in soft light. The lighting involved makes a starting point diff @ contrast. Then, on to the lens, sensor & processing. Each piece of the puzzle plays a part ... and by adjusting the variables of one we can get a different result, or we can offset one variable with another. Below, I've used some additional selective sharpening to illustrate for the difference in lighting ... i.e. the relationship between lighting & sharpening matters, and both are subjective to taste.

To that point ... certainly, using sharper glass and holding the other variables constant will yield a different output. But, so will changing the lighting or processing while holding the lens constant. I suspect that the OP is using a sharpening that has been recommended by others, but is undersharpened for his glass (aperture) / style of using such soft lighting ... coupled with the processing for his "look". The other issues @ resizing and when / where in his process is the sharpening being applied come in to play as well.










Jan 15, 2015 at 09:22 AM
CW100
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · About image sharpness


If you want sharper images simply use primes like the 100mm 2.8 but your post processing may be also affecting image sharpness.

I have no problem getting what I consider sharp images from the cheap 50mm 1.8 though

Canon 60D
Canon 50mm 1.8 mkII

(a $ 50 lens !)

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5609/15591325380_140a691344_b.jpg



http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7533/15582237580_233b85b620_b.jpg


http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7496/15766682326_37456b7654_b.jpg





Jan 15, 2015 at 02:40 PM
SEAyers
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · About image sharpness


Recently, three weeks or so ago, I purchased a new camera, a Nikon. After shooting a few shots I too noted a less than sharp result. I am lucky enough to live about 30 miles from one of only 7 authorized Nikon Service Centers here in the USA and so took the camera to them. There was an issue with the X, Y axis on the sensor board, which they corrected for free as it was under warranty. Now if my images are not very sharp I know the fault lies in me. And I am now "out of warranty."


Jan 15, 2015 at 06:37 PM
JVthePT
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · About image sharpness


Is it just me or do some of those images posted by the OP look to have some front focus? Leading shoulder in focus but eyes OOF, closest edge of the park bench is sharp but the little girl is OOF.
Just an idea.
My 60d produced super sharp images even with pretty unimpressive glass. Coupled with good glass it was razor sharp. The problem being, however, you cannot MFA on a 60d and I have no idea if you can on the 5d.



Jan 16, 2015 at 06:46 AM
lutty moreira
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · About image sharpness


Guys, thank you all so much for all the responses!

I have read them all and taken into consideration every opinion and suggestion.. I guess what I need right now is to do some more studying on sharpening, but it seems like my main problem is really undersharpening, since I have been making the mistake of always using pretty much the same sharpening settings for all my images, and that alone already guarantees an issue..

Answering some of the comments:
- I do understand I don't have the best camera-glass combination, but I also know they're good enough to produce sharper images, as some have mentioned.

RustyBug wrote:
I suspect that the OP is using a sharpening that has been recommended by others, but is undersharpened for his glass (aperture) / style of using such soft lighting ... coupled with the processing for his "look". The other issues @ resizing and when / where in his process is the sharpening being applied come in to play as well.


- I sharpen them on Lightroom and export them for web size/resolution. I already realized I'm doing this wrong though... I guess I should resize first then apply sharpening (on Photoshop for example), right? (I haven't started reading much about it yet)

cambyses wrote:
Do you use AF? If so, how? i.e., what AF mode, what AF area/sensors? I shoot Nikon so cannot comment on your body or glass. But the sharpness of my images were drastically improved when I started using back-button focusing and using one of the central AF points almost exclusively.


- I use AF, ONE SHOT mode, central AF point and shutter button pressed halfway to focus. I don't know the difference it makes using back-button focusing! Can you elaborate?

JVthePT wrote:
Is it just me or do some of those images posted by the OP look to have some front focus?


- See? I didn't even know front focus/ back focus was a thing! I got a lot of reading to do....



Jan 16, 2015 at 08:19 AM
hatch1921
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · About image sharpness


Depending on your workflow... this might not work for you. However, when I import my images in Lightroom... I apply a global sharpening or detail set to 60-65. From there I will export out the jpegs and if the images are print worthy... I will then hand sharpen the eyes and other important areas with the sharpen tool set to 8% in Photoshop. It's what I've done for a number of years and it works great IMO. Might not be for everyone or every situation... but.. for portrait work... I still go about sharpening this way.

Best of luck.
Hatch



Jan 16, 2015 at 06:36 PM
CW100
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · About image sharpness


hatch1921 wrote:
Depending on your workflow... this might not work for you. However, when I import my images in Lightroom... I apply a global sharpening or detail set to 60-65. From there I will export out the jpegs and if the images are print worthy... I will then hand sharpen the eyes and other important areas with the sharpen tool set to 8% in Photoshop. It's what I've done for a number of years and it works great IMO. Might not be for everyone or every situation... but.. for portrait work... I still go about sharpening this way.

Best of luck.
Hatch


I use similar settings with Photoshop's "unsharp" mask in layers





Jan 18, 2015 at 06:50 AM





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