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Archive 2015 · Advice on ND filters

  
 
Abuttolph
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Advice on ND filters


I am looking to put together some ND and grad ND filters for lenses having 82mm, 77mm, and smaller threads, and would appreciate input from fellow FMers on their experience and recommendations.

Ideally, I would like to have a system that could be used on lenses with varying thread sizes. For grad ND filters, obviously the solution is to use a square/rectangular set of filters. A 100mm filter holder would work and ND filters could also be used for this type of system. I have a Formatt HiTech 85mm filter holder and am happy with it. It is just not large enough to use on the 82mm threaded wide angle (21mm) lens.

Other options for the ND are variable ND filters. A couple of people that I know have them and both are very pleased with them. One uses a Hoya and the other uses a Singh-Ray. My concern about using this type of filter is this - if I were to get an 82mm variable ND filter and use a step ring for smaller threads, would vignetting become an issue? Also, how well do these filters perform at the 82mm size? Any known issues other than the potential cross problem?

The variable ND filters seem really nice in terms of convenience and having to carry around less equipment. I am just not sure how well they work when using one on smaller threaded lenses.

So - I guess that what I am asking is for input on pros and cons of each type of system. Cost will be a factor, but I want to figure out the best option and then go from there in looking at cost.

Thanks.



Jan 13, 2015 at 02:36 PM
dlabrecque
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Advice on ND filters


There are a several makers of filter holders, but the one most people use is Lee. Buy the 100mm size since this is the most common size used for rectangular GND's (4x6 inches or 100x150mm) Most of my GNDs are Singh Ray, though I also have a few from Lee. In terms of quality, both are roughly the same, though Lee slightly cheaper. Lee is also known to have legendary supply issues that can have you waiting weeks, or even months, for your order. Lee filter holders use a separate screw-on mount that's sized for your lens' filter size, so if you're intending to use both 77 and 82mm sizes, you'll need one for each size. Both Lee and Singh Ray also make ND filters of varying strengths. In that regard, you've probably heard of Lee's "Big Stopper," which is quite popular here. The Big Stopper does add a significant blue cast, but this is correctable in post processing. Don't know whether this occurs with the Singh Ray equivalent, but it's expense tends to keep me in the Lee camp.

Variable ND filters have been around now for a few years, but I've never been tempted to try one. Depending on the brand they tend to be eye-wateringly expensive, and there's also the complaint that there's significant vignetting. Since you're also playing with essentially two polarizers, there's also the risk of adding some unnatural coloration to your skies at wide focal lengths under 20mm. Personally, I want either a lot of stopping power or none at all, so I've not found much use for medium stopping strengths. But then, that's just my opinion. If you do end up with a square ND like the Big Stopper, be aware that it is made of 4mm glass, and as such you'll need to purchase Lee's 4mm slots that go onto the holder for this item.



Jan 13, 2015 at 03:39 PM
Abuttolph
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Advice on ND filters


dlabrecque, thanks so much for your input on this. It does seem to me that the square filter route is more versatile. I was aware of needing a mount for each filter thread size, but did not know about needing the special 4mm slots for the Lee holder - thanks. And, I was thinking of getting a Lee Big Stopper if I go with the square filters.

There seems to be different issues with the variable ND filters. The level of vignetting probably depends on the design, but because there are two polarizers, the filter has to be somewhat thick even if it is a slim design. And I agree with you about cost - some of them are in the $600 range (large high-quality). Many are not that costly, but to get one with 82mm thread would be expensive.

You comment about not really being interested in moderate strength ND filters is also something that I have been thinking about. Basically - what does one really need? Maybe the way to go is to get a 10 stop and then if it turns out that a less strong filter is needed, that could be obtained down the road.

Thanks again - this is really helpful.



Jan 13, 2015 at 05:37 PM
996gt2
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Advice on ND filters


One issue with many of the square-type drop-in filters is that they are not multicoated. This can cause issues with color casts, flare, reflections, etc. Another issue is that it's not possible to use the lens hood if you are using a square filter in front of the lens.

So, at least for the solid (non-grad) ND filters, I would buy a high-quality multicoated filter in 82mm and use step-down rings to adapt it to your other lenses. This way, you are getting a nice, multicoated filter, and you can still use the lens hood on the lens which uses an 82mm filter thread.

B+W makes a 10-stop ND filter with their MRC coating. It's on the expensive side, but it's one of the best 10-stop ND filters you can buy.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/871606-REG/B_W_66_1073164_82mm_3_0_ND_MRC.html/mode/gsa



Jan 17, 2015 at 04:38 PM
Abuttolph
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Advice on ND filters


996gt2, these are good points and I had not thought about the multicoating or lens hood issue. I have thought about the round filters for straight non-grad and it does seem like they would be a very good option.

I am still in the process of weighing the pros and cons of various filter setups. I appreciate you providing me with these additional points and recommendations to think about. Thanks.



Jan 19, 2015 at 04:54 PM
dlabrecque
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Advice on ND filters


To avoid any possible reflections, I usually just hold my hat over the filter arrangement. I've had very few issues with reflections on my 4x6 filters. The 6x7 filters I use on my 14-24 on the other hand can be tricky. Most of my light issues tend to come from the back rather than the front.


Jan 23, 2015 at 02:28 PM
Abuttolph
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Advice on ND filters


I've read about the light problems arising from light entering the camera through the viewfinder. Is that the issue that you have come across?

Good to know that you have not had issues with reflections from the front.

Thanks for your additional input.



Jan 24, 2015 at 09:13 PM
Jim60D
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Advice on ND filters


I just returned two copies of the new Formatt-Hitech 82mm Firecrest 4.8 ND (16-stop) filters due to areas of poor image quality. The problem is likely that the filter surfaces are not flat. If you look at the reflection of a grid, such as a backlit window screen (a flat one in good condition), you see distortions in the reflected grid.

This is unfortunate since the filter showed very little color cast and seemed to be about 16-stops ND.

First Formatt-Hitech 82mm Firecrest 16-stop ND filter

First filter, reflected grid and 2nd filter image defect



Jan 24, 2015 at 11:16 PM
m.sommers00
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Advice on ND filters


996gt2 wrote:
B+W makes a 10-stop ND filter with their MRC coating. It's on the expensive side, but it's one of the best 10-stop ND filters you can buy.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/871606-REG/B_W_66_1073164_82mm_3_0_ND_MRC.html/mode/gsa


This is a great suggestion for a 10-stop



Jan 25, 2015 at 01:21 AM
Abuttolph
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Advice on ND filters


Jim - thanks for posting the info on the Formatt-Hitech filters. Images in the links are very revealing. I had read that their ND filters were not particularly good and this certainly agrees with that assessment.
I have one of their filter holders and it is nice.

m.sommers00 - thanks for the additional plug for the B&W! I may go this route. I don't mind paying for a quality item, especially when dealing with a larger size such as the 82mm.



Jan 26, 2015 at 01:14 PM
Daniel Smith
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Advice on ND filters


http://www.singh-ray.com/neutral-density-filters/

I don't think you get any better than Singh-Ray. Good variety and top quality.



Jan 27, 2015 at 05:05 PM
m.sommers00
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Advice on ND filters


$400!!! Wow


Jan 28, 2015 at 03:47 AM





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