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Archive 2015 · Stylized shoot...would you let another photographer 2nd shoot for you?

  
 
eephoto
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Stylized shoot...would you let another photographer 2nd shoot for you?


So I'm shooting a stylized bridal shoot in a few weeks, I'm really excited about it. The team seems awesome and I think it's going to be a ton of fun. It's for a magazine which makes it even more exciting for me.

I received an email from the coordinator letting me know that the videographer who will be shooting the "behind the scenes" video has asked the lady representing the magazine as well as the shoot coordinator if he can 2nd shoot for me. The lady from the magazine said she didn't think it would be a problem. The coordinator didn't understand what "2nd shooting" means, so she asked me to explain it as well as asked me if I have any reservations regarding it.

Soooo...My first reaction is "heck NO!" I mean I don't know this person, have never worked with them, my head is screaming "why would he even ask that?" I'm not asking to be a 2nd videographer to his shoot. I'm also thinking about credit to the magazine? If he does 2nd shoot should he turn over his cards to me and should I have a contract with him?

The other side of me is wondering what are the pros to this. That maybe this could be a good thing. I've come up with a few, like an extra eye, things like that...but none of them relieve my "miffed-ness" of the situation.

Am I over reacting? Do you think this is more positive then negative? Or vice versa?




Jan 10, 2015 at 05:55 PM
myam203
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Stylized shoot...would you let another photographer 2nd shoot for you?


I wouldn't want a second there, as it doesn't make sense in any type of photography other than weddings, where you have one chance at getting the shot. Maybe it won't be your call in the end, but if you're good enough to shoot for the magazine, you're good enough to shoot it alone. No one needs that kind of help with a planned, staged shoot.


Jan 10, 2015 at 05:58 PM
SloPhoto
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Stylized shoot...would you let another photographer 2nd shoot for you?


an assistant/grip/VAL? Sure.

a second shooter? Depends on who is the creative entity behind the shoot. If the look and concept are yours then I would say hell no. If you were just tacked on later to click the shutter, then it might not be too far off base.


(I am making the assumption that the 2nd would be granted usage rights)



Jan 10, 2015 at 06:09 PM
Mark_L
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Stylized shoot...would you let another photographer 2nd shoot for you?


There are no pros to this situation, people assist on actual set shoots not second shoot them - end of. He is just trying to piggyback on your efforts. Video BTS is pretty meaningless anyway, let him stick to his job.


Jan 10, 2015 at 06:38 PM
eephoto
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Stylized shoot...would you let another photographer 2nd shoot for you?


Thanks myam203, that is what I have been thinking. But I'm trying not to be closed minded...

SloPhoto, thanks for the input. The concept has been given to us, the team, by the magazine but the look is all on us, the team. We have been given colours and what our story is, but have been given free reign otherwise.

I think he would be granted usage rights. But the photos would be my vision in the sense of set up, posing, lighting etc...So there is my hesitation...



Jan 10, 2015 at 06:42 PM
eephoto
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Stylized shoot...would you let another photographer 2nd shoot for you?




Mark_L wrote:
There are no pros to this situation, people assist on actual set shoots not second shoot them - end of. He is just trying to piggyback on your efforts. Video BTS is pretty meaningless anyway, let him stick to his job.


That is my first thought too...



Jan 10, 2015 at 07:08 PM
SloPhoto
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Stylized shoot...would you let another photographer 2nd shoot for you?


eephoto wrote:
Thanks myam203, that is what I have been thinking. But I'm trying not to be closed minded...

SloPhoto, thanks for the input. The concept has been given to us, the team, by the magazine but the look is all on us, the team. We have been given colours and what our story is, but have been given free reign otherwise.

I think he would be granted usage rights. But the photos would be my vision in the sense of set up, posing, lighting etc...So there is my hesitation...


In that case, it would be a non starter even for me. (and I am more of an amateur/part timer). I would send over something like the following.

"Having a second shooter for a styled shoot is very uncommon as it causes distractions and issues directing the model. Likely it would be best to have him focus on the BTS video.

If he insists on shooting stills, I have a standard contract which covers file handling and usage rights that I require for all second shooters. Please have him contact me to work out the details."

Then if he contacts you send over a contract requiring him to shoot on your cards and extends no usage rights.



Jan 10, 2015 at 08:23 PM
TTLKurtis
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Stylized shoot...would you let another photographer 2nd shoot for you?


Thanks but no thanks lol. He wants to get a freebie portfolio image that you'll set up and coordinate for him. I don't think so, Tim.


Jan 10, 2015 at 09:01 PM
FLSTCSAM
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Stylized shoot...would you let another photographer 2nd shoot for you?


Please feel free to phrase the answer anyway you like, but the answer should be........NO.

Sam



Jan 10, 2015 at 09:23 PM
MRomine
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Stylized shoot...would you let another photographer 2nd shoot for you?


Who is the the originator of the idea?Who has been inviting the other vendors? You, or someone else? If it is your gig, then you have control. If someone invited you to participate you may not have much control. IOWs whose party is it?


Jan 10, 2015 at 10:29 PM
Chris Fawkes
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Stylized shoot...would you let another photographer 2nd shoot for you?


MRomine wrote:
Who is the the originator of the idea?Who has been inviting the other vendors? You, or someone else? If it is your gig, then you have control. If someone invited you to participate you may not have much control. IOWs whose party is it?


I agree with this. If the creative process up to taking the images is coming from you then someone else comes along and looks as if they created something when all they did was take a pic of what was before them then that is completely unfair to you.

If the other party are setting everything up then not as much a big deal.

So who is coming up with concept and organising the styling?



Jan 10, 2015 at 10:41 PM
mirrorrim
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Stylized shoot...would you let another photographer 2nd shoot for you?


I was a 2nd once for the photographer who was doing a stylized shoot. It was...awkward. There was plenty of time for her to photograph everything, so whatever I photographed was redundant. It was pretty pointless for me to be there.

Plus if he seconds, he's no longer "behind the scenes" and might feel like adding his input to the set up...



Jan 10, 2015 at 10:48 PM
jcolman
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Stylized shoot...would you let another photographer 2nd shoot for you?


Some good comments here. But let me put a different spin on things.

My thoughts, if I was in this situation, would be first and foremost I want to please everyone. Making friends is making good connections. If I can keep everyone happy, I'll go with the flow. Secondly I have no issues with someone shooting over my shoulders, so to speak. I have confidence in my abilities that I don't need to be concerned about anyone getting in my way.

I do have a problem with some one using my lighting and staging to pad their port, but that can be discussed prior to the shoot and worked out.

I say try to be diplomatic and play nice on the playground. You never know when it could pay off.




Jan 10, 2015 at 11:35 PM
joelconner
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Stylized shoot...would you let another photographer 2nd shoot for you?


absolutely not.


Jan 10, 2015 at 11:35 PM
brianclary
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Stylized shoot...would you let another photographer 2nd shoot for you?


I would kindly inform the coordinator that his time would be best spent on the videography, and that any 'downtime' could be spent by him getting creative with his video, taking care of maintenance-type tasks, etc. Let the person who was assigned video spend every second trying to make their product as perfect as possible. I would also offer the videographer some branded images for their own use if they wanted to pair stills with their video in terms of marketing, assuming that's the goal. The only other goal I can imagine, would be that they want it for a photography portfolio.

And this isn't a protectionist perspective, I would expect the same if I tried to encroach on video, etc.



Jan 11, 2015 at 11:35 AM
jefferies1
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Stylized shoot...would you let another photographer 2nd shoot for you?


+I would ask them to not allow any other camera on set. This will prevent the models eyes from wondering and ruining the shot. Plus he is just trying to build a portfolio on your creativity.


Jan 11, 2015 at 12:15 PM
Littleguy
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Stylized shoot...would you let another photographer 2nd shoot for you?


I am curious about how a videographer is going to have time to second shoot? Is he just going to set up a video camera on tripod and let it run while he takes a still camera to second shoot? If that is the case, you could offer to do the video for them yourself and eliminate an extra person on the set.

Also will strobes be used? Is he going to have a set of triggers as well? or is this going to be lit with constant lights?

But as others have said, whose show is it anyways? The videographer is not second shooting for you because you would have gotten your own shooter if you felt you needed a second shooter with signed agreements but he could be second shooting for the magazine but I would ask the magazine how important are the videos for the magazine - because if they are important to them - the videographer should be concentrating on the video and not second shooting for anyone.



Jan 12, 2015 at 01:17 AM
D. Diggler
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Stylized shoot...would you let another photographer 2nd shoot for you?


Littleguy wrote:

the videographer should be concentrating on the video and not second shooting for anyone


No doubt!




Jan 12, 2015 at 01:38 AM
Yaryman
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Stylized shoot...would you let another photographer 2nd shoot for you?


" It's for a magazine which makes it even more exciting for me."

Is the magazine paying you?



Jan 12, 2015 at 08:12 PM
MazeRunner
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Stylized shoot...would you let another photographer 2nd shoot for you?


No.

I mean, does the videographer even have an impressive website where he/she would mention that you were the main photographer on site? If so, maybe.



Jan 12, 2015 at 11:51 PM
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