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Archive 2015 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!

  
 
carlitos
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p.24 #1 · p.24 #1 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!


I hesitate to ask, but how does this mod affect the modified camera's warranty?

Best to buy a used one?



Feb 26, 2015 at 10:43 PM
charles.K
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p.24 #2 · p.24 #2 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!


carlitos wrote:
I hesitate to ask, but how does this mod affect the modified camera's warranty?

Best to buy a used one?


Yes, it does void your warranty, so a used one would be a great choice




Feb 26, 2015 at 10:44 PM
charles.K
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p.24 #3 · p.24 #3 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!


Tariq Gibran wrote:
That's not going to solve the problem with this particular lens, at least based on what I saw from the one I tested.

What would be interesting to see is a comparison between the ZM 35/2 Biogon and the Loxia 35 on a modded A7...and for kicks, maybe toss the ZM 35/1.4 into the mix.



As Sean Reids review suggests, that you do need to open up to f/2 to focus, and reset the f stop to nail the focus. This does slow the process down considerably and in truth I would prefer to use the 35 Lux FLE on the A7rM, rather the Loxia 35 for this reason alone. IMO the 35 Lux FLE performs great, even though not quite as good as the ZM 35/1.4



Feb 26, 2015 at 10:52 PM
uhoh7
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p.24 #4 · p.24 #4 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!


carlitos wrote:
I hesitate to ask, but how does this mod affect the modified camera's warranty?

Best to buy a used one?


For me, though my camera was out of the short sony warranty, it would have made no difference. The choice between a camera which pleases and surprises and one which has me grunting but is covered; that's easy.

But many are perfectly happy with A7 as-is, and have different lenses than me, so for them it could be an issue. I think Kolari at least will stand behind their mod if something is not right---related to that.

As Charles notes, focus really matters and is not always obvious in the center. Here the potential of the ZM18 comes out when I accidentally hit it pretty well:

DSC02805 by unoh7, on Flickr

In many of my infinity attempts, I focus on the center and the edges do fuzz, but here I got it all--in the distance anyway



Feb 26, 2015 at 11:10 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.24 #5 · p.24 #5 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!


The nice thing about the Sony's is that it is actually very easy to check both the center and corners for focus of course. I also find with many of my lenses that if I'm going to be shooting at F5.6 or 8, it's much easier to nail focus by doing so at say F2.8 or F4 rather than wide open where aberrations will be greater and sharpness not quite as good compared to stopped down a few stops. At F8 on, it's fairly difficult to nail focus when attempting to do so at the shooting aperture.


Feb 27, 2015 at 08:13 AM
Gary Clennan
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p.24 #6 · p.24 #6 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!


Tariq - do you have the A7 or A7r? I don't remember....


Feb 27, 2015 at 09:48 AM
uhoh7
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p.24 #7 · p.24 #7 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!


Tariq Gibran wrote:
The nice thing about the Sony's is that it is actually very easy to check both the center and corners for focus of course. I also find with many of my lenses that if I'm going to be shooting at F5.6 or 8, it's much easier to nail focus by doing so at say F2.8 or F4 rather than wide open where aberrations will be greater and sharpness not quite as good compared to stopped down a few stops. At F8 on, it's fairly difficult to nail focus when attempting to do so at the shooting aperture.


that a good suggestion, TY I will try that



Feb 27, 2015 at 11:19 AM
hiepphotog
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p.24 #8 · p.24 #8 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!


uhoh7 wrote:
that a good suggestion, TY I will try that


Charlie, typically from what I've seen with these RF WA is that the edges and corners curving outward, away from the camera. The quickest way to find the optimal focus would be to focus for the sharpest edge/corner and identify the distance on the focus scale. Then you just take the middle point between infinity and that distance. With this method, you focus at the intended aperture. That was what I dealt with the ZM 15 on my A7s; got sharp corners to corners on 3D scene.



Feb 27, 2015 at 12:02 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.24 #9 · p.24 #9 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!


Gary Clennan wrote:
Tariq - do you have the A7 or A7r? I don't remember....


A7r.




Feb 27, 2015 at 02:40 PM
nicoimages
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p.24 #10 · p.24 #10 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!


It was a sunny day here in London on Friday and had the opportunity to test the M-Rokkor 28/2.8 properly.

The zip file contains a test from f2.8 to f16 - the sharpest apertures are f5.6 and f8 and I have not corrected for colour shading or falloff which is very acceptable with this little cheap lens. I have a good sample with no white spots or hazing though - just be aware that some samples are badly affected by this problem.

https://docs.google.com/uc?id=0B-0omMe5P91KczBjTkI0YkFwTXc&export=download

I am so happy with the work that Kolarivision did and all went smoothly despite the camera having to go though customs and across the Atlantic- can not recommend them highly enough

Edited on Feb 27, 2015 at 07:06 PM · View previous versions



Feb 27, 2015 at 06:21 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.24 #11 · p.24 #11 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!


nicoimages wrote:
It was a sunny day here in London on Friday and had the opportunity to test the M-Rokkor 28/2.8 properly.

The zip file contains a test from f2.8 to f16 - the sharpest apertures are f5.6 and f8 and I have not corrected for colour shading or falloff which is very acceptable with this little cheap lens. I have a good sample with no white spots or hazing though - just be aware that some samples are badly affected by this problem.

https://docs.google.com/uc?id=0B-0omMe5P91KczBjTkI0YkFwTXc&export=download

I am so happy with the work that Kolarivision did and all went smoothly despite the camera having to go
...Show more

That looks pretty damn good.




Feb 27, 2015 at 07:05 PM
Charlie N
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p.24 #12 · p.24 #12 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!


performance is pretty darn good


Feb 27, 2015 at 07:22 PM
charles.K
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p.24 #13 · p.24 #13 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!


nicoimages wrote:
It was a sunny day here in London on Friday and had the opportunity to test the M-Rokkor 28/2.8 properly.

The zip file contains a test from f2.8 to f16 - the sharpest apertures are f5.6 and f8 and I have not corrected for colour shading or falloff which is very acceptable with this little cheap lens. I have a good sample with no white spots or hazing though - just be aware that some samples are badly affected by this problem.

https://docs.google.com/uc?id=0B-0omMe5P91KczBjTkI0YkFwTXc&export=download

I am so happy with the work that Kolarivision did and all went smoothly despite the camera having to go
...Show more

Very nice!

I completely agree with you in that Kolari Vision have been great and in my case sending the A7r to Australia and they fully warranty the work they do.

Thank you Kolari Vision



Feb 27, 2015 at 07:35 PM
uhoh7
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p.24 #14 · p.24 #14 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!


Charlie N wrote:
performance is pretty darn good

+1
Edge details a bit down but you have to look close

The M-Rokkor 40/2....well I'm not sure it's any better on the M9!



Feb 27, 2015 at 08:22 PM
naturephoto1
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p.24 #15 · p.24 #15 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!


Nico,

Thanks for running the tests. I believe that you and many others might think that the little CLE 28mm M-Rokkor lens would be a good alternative to the M Leica 28mm lenses for being such a small and light lens with the modified A7r.

I might consider getting one to use for a very small and light lens as an alternative to when I want to carry my R 28mm f2.8 V2 lens which I would suspect would perform even better but is much larger and heavier.

Charlie,

If you didn't notice, Nico was testing the CLE 28mm M-Rokkor rather than the CLE 40mm M-Rokkor (the 40mm lens I believe is supposed to be sharper and sharper into the corners).

Rich

Edited on Feb 28, 2015 at 07:18 AM · View previous versions



Feb 27, 2015 at 09:45 PM
charles.K
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p.24 #16 · p.24 #16 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!


Another shot this morning with Loxia 35.

I adapted focusing each time at f/2 and then adjusting the f stop to the required setting. The focus was very accurate. The shot is very sharp at f/8 so long as the focusing technique is consistent.

I have attached a 100% crop from the right hand side and 7/8 down.

A7r and Loxia 35 @ f/8











Edited on Feb 28, 2015 at 11:31 PM · View previous versions



Feb 28, 2015 at 05:53 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.24 #17 · p.24 #17 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!


charles.K wrote:
Another shot this morning with Loxia 35.

I adapted focusing each time at f/2 and then adjusting the f stop to the required setting. The focus was very accurate. The shot is very sharp at f/8 so long as the focusing technique is consistent.

A7r and Loxia 35 @ f/8


I don't think there should be an issue with a relatively non demanding shot like that with so much sky. A composition with distant detail in the upper 2/3rds of the frame at the borders and corners is where the lens would be put to the test. All that said, after seeing Charlie's ZM 35/2 Biogon results on his modded A7 above, my sense is that the Loxia 35 is no worse on an unmodded A7x.



Feb 28, 2015 at 07:06 AM
charles.K
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p.24 #18 · p.24 #18 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!


Tariq Gibran wrote:
I don't think there should be an issue with a relatively non demanding shot like that with so much sky. A composition with distant detail in the upper 2/3rds of the frame at the borders and corners is where the lens would be put to the test. All that said, after seeing Charlie's ZM 35/2 Biogon results on his modded A7 above, my sense is that the Loxia 35 is no worse on an unmodded A7x.


Hi Tariq. I did not think so either, but after trying the Loxia at the beach I was noticing how critical it was to get the focus right both on the A7II and A7rM. After reviewing the shots I was seeing a softness on the edge of varying degrees. Obviously when the focus was correct the Loxia is an excellent lens, and I would err to suggest that it might be marginally better on the A7rM than the A7II.




Feb 28, 2015 at 07:47 AM
charles.K
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p.24 #19 · p.24 #19 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!


Another observation that has surprised me is with the Loxia 35 with strong back-lighting @ f/2 there is considerable CA with the A7II, and is negligible at f/2.8. However from some more testing this morning (sorry no direct comparisons.. yet) that with the A7r Modified there is virtually no CA with the Loxia at f/2.0. Personally for myself using the lens for portraits at f/2.0 is great, as there is no correction for CA needed in high key/backlit shots. Yet with the A7II there is considerable CA at f/2 that needs to be corrected in post.

I would be interested in others observations. I do feel that the thin filter modification will also behave differently on the A7 and A7r.

I would also be curious if anyone has tried the mod on the A7s? At the moment, the A7s is still my favourite to go camera so I'm waiting for some feedback

I have just added a photo with very strong backing, shot of glass candles no PP or corrections with +3 exp compensation which would show considerable CA at f/2 with A7II. The A7r Mod seems to keep the CA very well in check.






Edited on Mar 01, 2015 at 12:12 AM · View previous versions



Feb 28, 2015 at 11:24 PM
uhoh7
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p.24 #20 · p.24 #20 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!


naturephoto1 wrote:
Charlie,

If you didn't notice, Nico was testing the CLE 28mm M-Rokkor rather than the CLE 40mm M-Rokkor (the 40mm lens I believe is supposed to be sharper and sharper into the corners).

Rich


TY Rich, yes I noticed. My point was: the 28 looks good, the 40 looks great. Yes, better than before

Here CV 35/1.4 @5.6ish

DSC03026 by elleliv, on Flickr


DSC03042 by elleliv, 5.6ish


DSC03122 by elleliv, WO

My focus hit rate for these skiing shots is 50% of what I get with the M9



Mar 01, 2015 at 12:03 AM
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