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Archive 2014 · FD 800mm with FD 2xA TC on 6d

kabraxcis
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · FD 800mm with FD 2xA TC on 6d

I'm looking to grab a FD800 from another FMer who posted about the FD800 recently (https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1337506/0)

Apparently the locking mechanism is stuck, giving the lens a mounting issue. Now I have no idea what that means, and have asked him to explain through PM. He did say that the technician he talked to said that an EdMika conversion would take care of the issue, which is what he didn't want, and which is how I wish to use it anyways.

However, assuming that the lens is good for me to grab, I have a quick question.

I wish to take pictures of bald eagle fledglings this season (Feb~May is when they hatch and grow)

As my only camera is currently a 6d, I originally planned to grab a 7d2 and Sigma 150-600 + Sigma 1.4, but my budget fell through and I was pretty lost in terms of what to do.

With the FD800 and 6d's high ISO performance, can't I just stick a FD 2xA teleconverter on it and shoot at 1600mm? I am almost certain that this will not be a too-close shot of the eagles' nest, and given how the nesting eagles will be giving me tree-perched shots most of the time the manual focus does not seem to be too big of a deal.

Also, even if it is a tad long, I can always grab a 1.6x crop body to use without a TC, grab a FD 1.4xA (these seem to be harder to find), or just use the bare lens on my 6d and crop. Really much easier problems than not having enough length.

If you guys OK this, the total budget for a top-notch optical setup will be something like:
FD800: $800
FD2xA TC:$50
EdMika: $100
Tripod: $700
Gimbal: $400

TOTAL: $2050 , which I can definitely take. Trust me, I would like a $10k EF800mm too, but it's too much money.

I believe that this setup has better pricing and better optics at the cost of AF loss and portability, the former of which I hope isn't too bad with perched birds, and the latter which I can put up with.

What do you guys think?

Dec 27, 2014 at 12:13 AM

Fred Miranda
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · FD 800mm with FD 2xA TC on 6d

Cross-posted on the Alt board.

Dec 27, 2014 at 12:04 PM

galenapass
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · FD 800mm with FD 2xA TC on 6d

Not sure if it helps you but I have been considering something similar for nesting hawks and owls. MF is just fine for that kind of scenario. What I have been mulling over is a MF long lens coupled with a u43 body (such as an OMD EM1/EM5). Manual focus on mirrorless is quite easy plus the IBIS may be of some use. A modest lens - say 400mm - gives one a FOV of 800mm. Less weight, easier to carry around etc.... Only minus would be the higher ISO performance.

Dec 27, 2014 at 12:26 PM

kabraxcis
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · FD 800mm with FD 2xA TC on 6d

Nice to hear that MF works for nests.

I need more than 1200mm for sure though, I'm pretty certain even 1600mm won't be a full-frame (probably close) shot of the nest I want

Dec 27, 2014 at 12:44 PM

Roland W
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · FD 800mm with FD 2xA TC on 6d

If you do a conversion on the FD lens to modify it to fit an EOS mount camera, you will not be able to use any of the old FD converters on it. But you may be able to use a modern EOS converter on the modified lens, and still end up with what you want. Just thought I would mention that as you consider your project.

Also, when you get up to those focal lengths, remember that you need serious support, which means a big tripod and a good head, as well as perhaps some form of long lens support to augment the lens collar. I never used a big FD lens back in the day, so I have no idea how good the lens collar is on it.

Dec 27, 2014 at 12:46 PM

kabraxcis
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · FD 800mm with FD 2xA TC on 6d

Actually, I was assuming that I could grab an EdMika kit to convert the lens to verify that it works, then take it off and put a FD TC onto the lens, and use the same EdMika rear to convert the FD TC to EOS mount, would there be an issue with this?

I'll have to ask EdMika

Dec 27, 2014 at 01:09 PM

Roland W
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · FD 800mm with FD 2xA TC on 6d

It might work, but I would guess there is a good chance that the back of the converter is not exactly the same geometry as the back of the lens.

Leaving the lens as an EOS mount is in general a more versatile piece of gear, because you can use it at 600 mm, or add an EOS converter to use it at 840 mm or 1200 mm. Not all shots you take will be super distant like the Eagle nest. And any EOS converters you get are usable on other lenses you may have or may get in the future. You also can then adapt a mirror less camera directly on to the 600 mm with standard EOS converters, in case you end up that direction in the future.

Dec 27, 2014 at 01:26 PM

kabraxcis
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · FD 800mm with FD 2xA TC on 6d

Right, I guess I can try the EF TCs, shouldn't be too problematic, and they sell well enough to get rid of if it doesn't work. It's looking good, I think I may have the lens early into the new year.

Dec 27, 2014 at 01:44 PM

Imagemaster
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · FD 800mm with FD 2xA TC on 6d

kabraxcis wrote:
Nice to hear that MF works for nests.

I need more than 1200mm for sure though, I'm pretty certain even 1600mm won't be a full-frame (probably close) shot of the nest I want

You are under the illusion that longer is better. Good luck if you want to have the hassle of MF at those focal-lengths and having to use adapters. You could be in for a big disappointment if your results are not any better than what you would get with a Tamron or Sigma with a 1.4x TC and cropping.

Dec 27, 2014 at 02:12 PM

galenapass
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · FD 800mm with FD 2xA TC on 6d

kabraxcis wrote:
Nice to hear that MF works for nests.

I need more than 1200mm for sure though, I'm pretty certain even 1600mm won't be a full-frame (probably close) shot of the nest I want

When I was shooting with Canon gear I would attach a 2x TC to my 500mm then add a 7D. I would focus manually on the nest or a location where I though the adult would use a path to fly into the nest, wait and fire away when the moment was right. Worked great, and when the chicks get bigger there are plenty of opportunities right at the nest location. For owls, of course, there is very little movement during the day so MF works just fine. For optimal results, I had to use a higher shutter speed. Even when mounted on a sturdy tripod that kind of focal length has a lot of shake and vibration. Here in Colorado, on the plains near the front range, the wind is almost always blowing and is particularly bad when you least want it to be. In my experience, Imagemaster is correct - there is a point of diminishing returns with very long FLs, but it is very dependent of the conditions. Having said that, if you have access to a nest on a regular basis one can always just wait until the time is right.

Dec 27, 2014 at 04:26 PM

kabraxcis
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · FD 800mm with FD 2xA TC on 6d

galenapass wrote:
When I was shooting with Canon gear I would attach a 2x TC to my 500mm then add a 7D. I would focus manually on the nest or a location where I though the adult would use a path to fly into the nest, wait and fire away when the moment was right. Worked great, and when the chicks get bigger there are plenty of opportunities right at the nest location. For owls, of course, there is very little movement during the day so MF works just fine. For optimal results, I had to use a higher shutter speed. Even...Show more →

So it sounds like you were using around 1600mm, how was the focusing experience?

What tripod/gimbal, did you weigh down your tripod, etc.

I think I can set it up so that I wire-release, and since it's digital I can just fire away at various focal lengths in a hurry, and take my time for the nests. I doubt I want to use $2k+ to crop for worse image quality, I'd rather spend this $2k and get good optics and spend some time with it. If it doesn't work out I'll just pass it down to my son as a family heirloom. A big one

Dec 27, 2014 at 05:08 PM

ted1000
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · FD 800mm with FD 2xA TC on 6d

I was involved with a study of the diet of whooping cranes where we were not allowed to get closer then 100 yds in a vehicle (200 yds on foot). I used an Edmika converter on my old 800 5.6L FD (from my film days) with a 5D mII and it worked great! Was able to identify many food items down to the species level. The FD 1.4x I have has the breech lock and didn't work with the Edmika converter I have. I think his newer converters solved this problem. Somewhere I read (don't think it was from Ed himself) that If you are going to use a teleconverter it's best to use the FD between the lens and the Edmika converter then to use an EF teleconverter. Email Ed, he is a great guy.

Dec 27, 2014 at 05:49 PM

kabraxcis
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · FD 800mm with FD 2xA TC on 6d

Yeah I couldn't find his email so just sent an email through to his ebay account, hopefully it reaches him. His new converter says it works with the FD 1.4xA, but has no mention on the 2.0xA which is what I want. If the FD2.0 doesn't work I'll try the FD1.4xA combo first and see how short it is, maybe it'll be good enough, probably not.

Dec 27, 2014 at 06:02 PM

ted1000
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · FD 800mm with FD 2xA TC on 6d

A trick I did with mine (again back in the film days) was if the subject was stationary (like your nest situation) was to have the lens on a tripod and use a monopod connected to the camera body. It really cut down on the camera/lens movement of such a long combination.

I really like the rack-and -pinion focusing on the 800 and with today's live-view focusing will be even easier. Your biggest problem with shooting at long distances will be with atmospheric conditions such as aerosols and thermal effects. Be conscious of whats between you and your subject such as water, black-top ext...

Dec 27, 2014 at 06:24 PM

galenapass
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · FD 800mm with FD 2xA TC on 6d

kabraxcis wrote:
So it sounds like you were using around 1600mm, how was the focusing experience?

What tripod/gimbal, did you weigh down your tripod, etc.

I think I can set it up so that I wire-release, and since it's digital I can just fire away at various focal lengths in a hurry, and take my time for the nests. I doubt I want to use $2k+ to crop for worse image quality, I'd rather spend this $2k and get good optics and spend some time with it. If it doesn't work out I'll just pass it down to my son as a family heirloom....Show more →

I used live view much of the time.

IMO, there is no need for a gimbal head unless you are shooting action and swinging the lens around to focus on moving objects. I used a RRS BH-55 + Gitzo G1327 + small ~5lb sandbag.

Dec 27, 2014 at 06:54 PM

kabraxcis
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · FD 800mm with FD 2xA TC on 6d

Come to think of it, it'd be near impossible to do gimbal action while manual focusing, that makes a lot of sense.

Also the monopod on camera tip is great, I do have another tripod I COULD use, but it's super heavy and I'd rather use a monopod on the camera with a new lighter tripod on the lens

Dec 27, 2014 at 07:00 PM

ted1000
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · FD 800mm with FD 2xA TC on 6d

When I used a monopod under the camera body I had a small ball-head on the monopod. The procedure was to aim and lock down the lens using the tripod head and leave the monopod sections (and its ballhead) untightened. When you subject is framed how you want it tighten up the monopod. I would usually frame the subject a bit high and push up on the camera body when I tightened the monopod.

Dec 27, 2014 at 07:37 PM

R.H. Johnson
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · FD 800mm with FD 2xA TC on 6d

pipe dream, you need a gimbal and a heavy tripod. the FD 800mm f5.6l is a hefty lens. focusing in live view is difficult at best. it takes a large volume of patience because of vibrations. to achieve 1612.8mm effectively. i would suggest the original Canon EOS-FD converter that has a 1.26x multipler on a cropper body to get very little degradation in IQ.

i own the FD 800mm f5.6l and have been there done all that. the Ed Mika converter may or may not work to get you to infinity. if it does not you will have to remove the infinity stop screw to achieve infinity focus.

the FD 800mm f5.6l is an outstanding piece of optics when set-up properly. it will get you many good images. once you have mastered it and the support/conversion systems required to stop lens motion blur.

ps MF is not a hassle it develops patience. it forces you to get it right in camera because it takes just a little longer than auto focus. but when you get the shot through your efforts it is quite rewarding.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8378/8419221736_c681f469d4_o.jpg

Canon EOS 5D FD 800mm f5.6l @ 1008mm 1/1600sec iso200

R.H. Johnson II
Master of Light Studios
FAP LA Images

Dec 27, 2014 at 08:24 PM

ted1000
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · FD 800mm with FD 2xA TC on 6d

Removing the infinity stop screw on the 800 is a five minute (and completely reversible) operation. You remove a cover plate held on by 4 screws, remove the stop screw, then replace the cover plate. Ed has a youtube video to show the process.

Gimbal heads are great (for moving subjects) and I use one now but back in the 80's I had never heard of one and used a gitzo 3 series tripod with a bogen 4047 head. Worked for me.

Don't know how to post images here but the latest issue of "Methods in Ecology and Evolution" has one of my whooping crane images on the cover using the 800 FD and that's taken with a window mount. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/journal/10.1111/%28ISSN%292041-210X/issues

Dec 27, 2014 at 08:50 PM

R.H. Johnson
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · FD 800mm with FD 2xA TC on 6d

looks like a very good image but i can't enlarge it to enjoy it.

Dec 27, 2014 at 09:02 PM

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