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Archive 2014 · 3 different metabones on A7r and still soft edges

  
 
jcolwell
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · 3 different metabones on A7r and still soft edges


There, now you're cross-posted on Canon and Alt.


Dec 22, 2014 at 11:23 AM
soboyle
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · 3 different metabones on A7r and still soft edges


It is odd and more than frustrating.
It could be that B&H is cycling the returns back out again, although I haven't received the same one back from them. Yet.
My testing has been tripod mounted, manual focusing on a consistent spot. Have tried various distances, from infinity to close up. Like the center of the canon, but the edges are consistently bad. Doesn't match other users experience so can only think it's the adapter. Maybe I'll look for a used III.



Dec 22, 2014 at 11:26 AM
soboyle
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · 3 different metabones on A7r and still soft edges


jcolwell - thanks!


Dec 22, 2014 at 11:39 AM
Scott Stoness
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · 3 different metabones on A7r and still soft edges


jcolwell wrote:
There, now you're cross-posted on Canon and Alt.


You are a sharper cookie than me. I thought about it and then thought it would not let me because I was not the op. I should have checked.




Dec 22, 2014 at 11:47 AM
mttran
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · 3 different metabones on A7r and still soft edges


Have you try the different canon lenses and avoid their field curvature at wide aperture such as 50mmf1.4 at f8 to test your MB.

Edited on Dec 22, 2014 at 11:51 AM · View previous versions



Dec 22, 2014 at 11:49 AM
Scott Stoness
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · 3 different metabones on A7r and still soft edges


soboyle wrote:
It is odd and more than frustrating.
It could be that B&H is cycling the returns back out again, although I haven't received the same one back from them. Yet.
My testing has been tripod mounted, manual focusing on a consistent spot. Have tried various distances, from infinity to close up. Like the center of the canon, but the edges are consistently bad. Doesn't match other users experience so can only think it's the adapter. Maybe I'll look for a used III.


Then its either i) misalignment of 24-70 or a7r, ii) field curvature of 24-70 sony vs canon, or ii) lens correction applied to sony but not canon, iv) something wrong with your 24-70, or v) the canon 24-70 is not as good as you thought it was. See my post above.

If you have ts24, that would be a better test.

I suspect ii - v, since you have tried 3 different copies and my experience with the 2 I have bought (1 for tripod and 1 for handheld) is 100%.Hardware problems are unlikely given that you manually focussed.



Edited on Dec 22, 2014 at 11:56 AM · View previous versions



Dec 22, 2014 at 11:51 AM
whumber
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · 3 different metabones on A7r and still soft edges


Scott Stoness wrote:
Then its either i) misalignment of 24-70 or a7r, ii) field curvature of 24-70 sony vs canon, or ii) lens correction applied to sony but not canon, iv) something wrong with your 24-70, or v) the canon 24-70 is not as good as you thought it was. See my post above.

If you have ts24, that would be a better test.



It's most likely the register distance from the adapter is off. What I was seeing was that the 16-35 f/4 and 24-70ii were very significantly sharper on the 5D3 near the corners/edges than they were on the A7R.



Dec 22, 2014 at 11:56 AM
Scott Stoness
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · 3 different metabones on A7r and still soft edges


whumber wrote:
It's most likely the register distance from the adapter is off. What I was seeing was that the 16-35 f/4 and 24-70ii were very significantly sharper on the 5D3 near the corners/edges than they were on the A7R.


Scary - isn't it. We spend $5000 on a new system to achieve mpx and then slap a $400 lower tolerance adapter on it.

Your theory (too much/litte distance in adapter) could be right but it should not be that sensitive to it because you are focussing manually. A wrong length should show up as lack for focus at infinity where there is lots of tolerance in canon lens.

I have a hard time explaining your sharper edges on 5diii except that you could have focussed on a different spot and field curvature. But if this is not true and it were same left and right, then there is something going on that I don't understand. eg severe difference in length.

I will do some testing this evening if I get home in time.



Edited on Dec 22, 2014 at 12:28 PM · View previous versions



Dec 22, 2014 at 11:59 AM
jcolwell
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · 3 different metabones on A7r and still soft edges


jcolwell wrote:
There, now you're cross-posted on Canon and Alt.

Scott Stoness wrote:
You are a sharper cookie than me. I thought about it and then thought it would not let me because I was not the op. I should have checked.


I asked Fred to do it.



Dec 22, 2014 at 12:11 PM
shirozina
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · 3 different metabones on A7r and still soft edges


focusing manually with 14.4x ? - AF is hopeless on the a7r
What is the exit pupil to sensor distance on the 24-70? - if it's short then this is a known issue with the A series.
As said before the wrong flange to focal plane distance will throw off edge resolution on a lens that uses floating lens elements ( even if it can still focus on infinity) - use live view at 100% on a canon body and note the exact position of the focus scale and then see if this is the same on the A7r.
lastly - huge jump in resolution from Canon full frame to A7r which some lenses cope with and others are left wanting.



Dec 22, 2014 at 12:33 PM
Gunzorro
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · 3 different metabones on A7r and still soft edges


jcolwell wrote:
Don't you see the "Post to additional board:" pull-down menu at the bottom of the edit screen?


Um,. . . where is it again? (Somewhere near the gigantic yellow arrow?)



Dec 22, 2014 at 01:31 PM
soboyle
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · 3 different metabones on A7r and still soft edges


I'll try my 70-200, 50 , 40 and 17-40 on the A7r and see what the results are.


Dec 22, 2014 at 01:38 PM
Scott Stoness
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · 3 different metabones on A7r and still soft edges


shirozina wrote:
focusing manually with 14.4x ? - AF is hopeless on the a7r
What is the exit pupil to sensor distance on the 24-70? - if it's short then this is a known issue with the A series.
As said before the wrong flange to focal plane distance will throw off edge resolution on a lens that uses floating lens elements ( even if it can still focus on infinity) - use live view at 100% on a canon body and note the exact position of the focus scale and then see if this is the same on the A7r.
lastly - huge jump
...Show more

Theorectically possible but op complained that sony 24-70 did better. It should not.

Photozone shows 4300/2400 3.8% barrell (uncorrected) vs 3531/2613 2.83% barrel for a7r/sony 24-70 at 24 open vs 5dii/canon 24-70 open. Given the 36mpx of a7r, the 3531/2613 would scale up to really smoke the sony. On resolution metrics the canon lens is way superior to the sony lens.

And the exit pupil of the 24-70 should be fine because it is built for the 5diii .

So it could be adapter distance, but it coudl be a lot of other things like lens curvature, bad lens copy, ....




Dec 22, 2014 at 01:39 PM
Scott Stoness
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · 3 different metabones on A7r and still soft edges


soboyle wrote:
I'll try my 70-200, 50 , 40 and 17-40 on the A7r and see what the results are.


Remember to downsample a7r pics to 22mpx before comparing to the 5diii? Or you are comparing oranges to bananas.





Dec 22, 2014 at 01:53 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · 3 different metabones on A7r and still soft edges


A 24mm, the Canon EF 24-70 II performs much better than the Sony 24-70 f/4 in the corners.

Even the Canon FD 20mm f/2.8 performs better than the FE 24-70 @24mm (f/8)
See here: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1278114/0#12185103

That's the main reason I still shoot with the EF 24-70 II on the A7R. (To my surprise Sony's new FE 16-35 is extremely sharp in the corners at 16mm though)

Either you have an adapter that is not well centered or your A7R mount is tilted.
If you have a centered Metabones and a perfectly aligned A7R mount, the issue could be with your 24-70 II copy.

I have same samples somewhere. I will post it if I find it.
Fred



Dec 22, 2014 at 03:46 PM
philip_pj
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · 3 different metabones on A7r and still soft edges


Shiro, it is a DSLR lens = no exit pupil distance issue. You cannot equate Leica M high beam angle lenses with modern lenses.

Anyone focusing at open aperture may fall victim to curvature and/or focus shift. Test at shooting aperture, it's better for your craft, which is why Sony does this by default. However the Canon midzoom has little CoF - at 70mm anyway:

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2014/09/just-the-lenses-canon-vs-nikon-zooms-at-70mm

None of these mid zooms are the greatest off-centre:

http://www.photozone.de/canon_eos_ff/773-canon2470f28mk2ff?start=1

..but if you are seeing better results on a Canon body remember to equalise the zoom level in your screen - you see just 16% of an a7r image at 100% in a 1200px window, but 20% of a 24Mp Canon file. Less magnification means better looking, people love 12Mp cameras as the 100% views look so clean!



Dec 22, 2014 at 03:51 PM
soboyle
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · 3 different metabones on A7r and still soft edges


It's not the lens, I hung a gallery exhibition of large landscape prints earlier this year shot exclusively with this 24-70 lens. Very sharp with excellent contrast.
The problem I'm having is it's dark so early that I can't test after work.
I did review some shots with this metabones adaptor and my 17-40, and am seeing the same issue. So I think it's the adaptor. Will try another.



Dec 23, 2014 at 01:03 PM
whumber
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · 3 different metabones on A7r and still soft edges


Scott Stoness wrote:
Your theory (too much/litte distance in adapter) could be right but it should not be that sensitive to it because you are focussing manually. A wrong length should show up as lack for focus at infinity where there is lots of tolerance in canon lens.

I have a hard time explaining your sharper edges on 5diii except that you could have focussed on a different spot and field curvature. But if this is not true and it were same left and right, then there is something going on that I don't understand. eg severe difference in length.

I will do some
...Show more

In my case, the issue was that the adapter was too short by a significant amount. The 24-70 would actually be at infinity focus when the barrel marking was between the 1.5 & 3m markings. I initially didn't think much of it because I didn't really need the markings when focusing in live view, but apparently once you throw floating lens groups into the mix this can become a major problem where the center of the frame will be sharp but the edges will be very soft.



Dec 23, 2014 at 10:18 PM
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