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Archive 2014 · Thinking of Selling My Zeiss 21mm and TS-E 24 Mk II for a EF 16-35 f/4?

  
 
jeetsukumaran
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Thinking of Selling My Zeiss 21mm and TS-E 24 Mk II for a EF 16-35 f/4?



I love landscapes. Or, rather, *-scapes, where '*' = land, sea, air, tree, etc.

My current wide-angle lens of choice is the TS-E 24 Mk II. I do not think, however, I have taken a single shot with with tilt/shift movements: I have been using it as a corner-to-corner high-quality 24mm. I also have a Zeiss 21mm. Frankly, I prefer the color and rendition of the Zeiss over the TS-E, though this may be hallucinatory. Nonetheless, ever since getting the TS-E, that is the lens I reach for for my wide-angle needs because, at least currently, I prefer the 24mm perspective.

There is no doubt: I am absolutely thrilled with the TS-E 24 II and the Zeiss 21 f/2.8. They deliver everything I want and need.

Yet, I am still thinking of selling them and getting the EF 16-35 f/4.

Why? I figure that, given the way that I use the TS-E 24 (i.e., as a plain old 24 without the tilt/shift), if the 16-34 f/4 is as good as the Zeiss or the TS-E, then I will gain the flexibility of a wider range in a smaller package and also (hopefully) gain some surplus funds to offset my recent EF 100-400 II purchase.

For those who have the 16-35 f/4 as well as the Zeiss and/or the TS-E 24, how do they compare, both objectively and subjectively? I know ultimately that this is something I will have to figure out for myself based on my needs. But I would like to bounce some ideas of anyone who might have some opinions and would like to share.



Dec 21, 2014 at 12:47 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Thinking of Selling My Zeiss 21mm and TS-E 24 Mk II for a EF 16-35 f/4?


Here's a couple of threads to get you started...

EF 16-35/4L IS test images https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1313373/0#12531288
24mm EF 24/2.8 IS vs TS-E 24/3.5L II ttp://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1270343/

...and here's some background information.

Lens tests, 17mm/18mm [2014-01-15] https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1267345
- Fred on focusing TS-E 17 https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1267345/2#12075780
[u-wide for X Pro-1] Fuji X-Pro1 - Help to decide wich 3 alt lenses https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1262031/0#12018496
Zeiss 18mm f/3.5 Question https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1261986/0#12017838
TSE 17mm: acceptable performance? https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1229794/0#11705691
ZE18/3.5 - TS-E 17/4L https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1213602/1#11566782
Replacement for 17-40L https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1205010/1#11486857

Canon 24 TSE II vs Zeiss 21f2.8 https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1039968/1#9884417
EF 24-70/2.8L II vs. CZ 28/2.8 & 35-70/3.4 https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1254055/



Dec 21, 2014 at 01:01 PM
jeetsukumaran
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Thinking of Selling My Zeiss 21mm and TS-E 24 Mk II for a EF 16-35 f/4?


Ha Jim!

You are showing me up for not doing my due diligence homework!

Thank you for the links. I will go through them carefully. I actually had already read your (excellent) tests of the 16-35, and it was that as well as many other glowing recommendations from both tests and real-world use that made me think that I could, in fact, replace my beloved TS-E 24 II and Zeiss 21mm. I guess I was trying to solicit some sort of more subjective opinions on how folks would feel about such replacement if they had to consider it themselves.



Dec 21, 2014 at 01:10 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Thinking of Selling My Zeiss 21mm and TS-E 24 Mk II for a EF 16-35 f/4?


Well, I sold my 21/2.8 ZE after getting the TS-E 24/3.5L II. More recently, I bought the TS-E 17/4L and 18/3.5 ZE. I use the 18 ZE as backup for my 16-34/4L IS when I'm 'zooming' (the 24-70/2.8L II also provides backup), and when the TS-E lenses are too big to bring (the 21/2.8 is big, too). I often use shift on the TS-E 24L II, both for pespective control and for "shift panoramas". If I had to come down to only two lenses in the 16mm to 24mm range, it would probably be the 16-35/4L IS and TS-E 24/3.5L II (with the Samyang UMC 14/2.8 still lurking around, of course).


Dec 21, 2014 at 01:27 PM
dhphoto
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Thinking of Selling My Zeiss 21mm and TS-E 24 Mk II for a EF 16-35 f/4?


Well I've been using the 16-35 f4 IS regularly for about a month and I don't find it anything very special. Certainly not worth the hype.

Yes, it's sharp all over but is it 'stunningly' good? Not to me. My 17-40L was 90% of the lens for much less money (when stopped down and without IS of course)

I actually find it more prone to flare and a less convenient zoom range.



Dec 21, 2014 at 01:34 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Thinking of Selling My Zeiss 21mm and TS-E 24 Mk II for a EF 16-35 f/4?


As with all lens things, it is going to be some sort of trade-off. Those who are passionate about tilt/shift lenses find that their capabilities are more compelling than the versatility of a high quality zoom. It seems that you tried that approach and discovered that, for you at least, this approach was not compelling.

No lens is perfect, but the 16-35 f/4 L IS is a very fine lens and can be tremendously useful for quite a few photographers. I have no doubt that the Zeiss lenses are very fine instruments, but the zoom is, too, and it can produce excellent photographic quality.



Dec 21, 2014 at 01:44 PM
Zenon Char
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Thinking of Selling My Zeiss 21mm and TS-E 24 Mk II for a EF 16-35 f/4?


I rented both those lenses. The TSE was awesome but I'm not a tinkerer so I decided not to go with it as the novelty would have worn off for me. The Zeiss was great. For that price and no AF (which is not critical) it seemed too much of a speciality lens for me.

I settled for the 24-70 II. Not perfect but pretty good in the corners. Very sharp all around.



Dec 21, 2014 at 02:04 PM
kevindar
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Thinking of Selling My Zeiss 21mm and TS-E 24 Mk II for a EF 16-35 f/4?


I have the 16-35 f4 IS, and the 24ts II. Have owned all 3 versions of 16-35, the 17-40, and the nikon 14-24 on the ultrawide zooms.

In short, the 16-35 f4 is very good at 24mm stopped down (f8). the 24 tse, and 24-70 II are both better wide at the larger apertures. However, if you are shooting at f8 -f11, the zoom delivers excellent image to the corners throughout the zoom range. it also has very nice star burst, good flare control, and very good color and contrast.



Dec 21, 2014 at 10:16 PM
jeetsukumaran
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Thinking of Selling My Zeiss 21mm and TS-E 24 Mk II for a EF 16-35 f/4?


Thank you all for your thoughts and opinions. It has not made my decision any easier --- still ruminating the various trade-offs --- but I think the conversation has helped focus the issues and clarify the problem, if that makes any sense!


Dec 21, 2014 at 11:54 PM
artd
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Thinking of Selling My Zeiss 21mm and TS-E 24 Mk II for a EF 16-35 f/4?


You'd probably be better off selling the 24TSE if you're not using the T/S features. But before you do, I'd suggest taking it out for an outing with a particular goal to implement those features a bit. I will admit that myself I don't find the tilt function as compelling and I use it only rarely...but the shift function I use practically everytime the lens is mounted on my camera. In landscapes it's particularly useful in scenes with trees as you can level the camera and keep the trees straight while still composing a photo without the horizon in the center of the frame.

Best of luck



Dec 22, 2014 at 12:51 AM
MikeW
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Thinking of Selling My Zeiss 21mm and TS-E 24 Mk II for a EF 16-35 f/4?


I've had the zf.2 version of the 21 & currently have the 24 ts-e II & 16-35 F4. I love my ts-e but don't care for the zoom. I prefer primes in general & have been thinking of getting another zeiss, either the 21, 18 or I wish the 15. I just find zooms make me less creative.

The 21 use to make some nice images, very sweet lens.



Dec 22, 2014 at 06:18 AM
jeetsukumaran
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Thinking of Selling My Zeiss 21mm and TS-E 24 Mk II for a EF 16-35 f/4?


I actually have been looking forward to experimenting/exploring the tilt/shift aspect of the TS-E 24 for a while. I love the technical and creative possibilities, and I am a tinkerer! I just, for some reason, never got around to it! I usually get carried away with simply capturing whatever is in front of me. A dedicated tilt shoot project as you, artd, suggest would be in order. I do not have enough experience with the lens to visualize the shot without planning, and cannot plan with visualizing the shot. So forcing myself to go out and take a tilt shot will do it! Thanks for the suggestion!

MikeW: I know exactly what you mean about zooms making you less creative. I found when a traded my 16-35 f/2.8 for the Zeiss 21, I loved the fact that when I came across something beautiful, and I had to stop and carefully consider how to frame/capture it using the fixed focal length. And, if for some reason I couldn't, I would just take a step back and drink in the view. So the zoom was actually crippling, and the fixed focal length liberating, both in forcing me to plan the image better and thus inserting more of myself into the image, as well as allowing me to experience the views, whether or not I could capture them.



Dec 22, 2014 at 02:01 PM
dhphoto
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Thinking of Selling My Zeiss 21mm and TS-E 24 Mk II for a EF 16-35 f/4?


Depends how you use a zoom.

I rarely stand in one place and zoom in and out to frame, I choose the focal length I want for the angle of view I want and then move myself around to compose.

I see zooms as many focal lengths in one lens rather than a means of making composition easier



Dec 22, 2014 at 02:08 PM
Scott Stoness
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Thinking of Selling My Zeiss 21mm and TS-E 24 Mk II for a EF 16-35 f/4?


jeetsukumaran wrote:
I love landscapes. Or, rather, *-scapes, where '*' = land, sea, air, tree, etc.

My current wide-angle lens of choice is the TS-E 24 Mk II. I do not think, however, I have taken a single shot with with tilt/shift movements: I have been using it as a corner-to-corner high-quality 24mm. I also have a Zeiss 21mm. Frankly, I prefer the color and rendition of the Zeiss over the TS-E, though this may be hallucinatory. Nonetheless, ever since getting the TS-E, that is the lens I reach for for my wide-angle needs because, at least currently, I prefer the 24mm perspective.
...Show more

16-35 f4 is pretty good, however, the ts24 has better edges, less field curvature, and it shifts to fix perspective (but this is more valuable on the ts17). But it is 24 and the zeiss is 21 - not a zoom. You don't use shift and only you can know whether edges and field curvature are an issue worth sticking to the ts24 or 21. If you don't shoot a lot at 24mm, then sell it. If you don't shoot much at 21 sell it too. Its hard to carry them all. Rent the 16-35 and see if you like it. I suspect you will.

I personally would sell the zeiss 21 and buy the ts17 rather than sell 21/24 and buy 16-35. The shift is way to valuable to me especially at the 16mm end. The shift is crtical at really wide. Not as much at 24mm - there the benefits are more inclined to tilt.

Consider also a better pairing woudl be ts17 and 16-35 but thats pretty expensive shift.



Dec 22, 2014 at 03:01 PM
wayne seltzer
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Thinking of Selling My Zeiss 21mm and TS-E 24 Mk II for a EF 16-35 f/4?


I have the Zeiss 21, Nikon 14-24G, TS-E17, and 16-35/2.8Lmk1. I mostly use the Zeiss 21 and less often the 14-24G for landscapes. I prefer the zeiss microcontrast, colors, and sharpness across the frame.
I would suggest getting rid of the TS-E24 and get the 14-24G/2.8 which is excellent at 24 and even better towards the wide end and is a very versatile wide angle zoom. It's strong performance wide open and 2.8 speed makes it one of the best for astrophotography and night landscapes with stars.
Lots of good choices now for ultra wide angle lenses and just depends on what you like.



Dec 23, 2014 at 12:14 AM
Focus Locus
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Thinking of Selling My Zeiss 21mm and TS-E 24 Mk II for a EF 16-35 f/4?


Why does everyone talk about the 16-35/4 in all these comparisons, and few barely mention the 16-35/2.8 version II?


Dec 23, 2014 at 12:58 AM
artd
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Thinking of Selling My Zeiss 21mm and TS-E 24 Mk II for a EF 16-35 f/4?


jeetsukumaran wrote:
I actually have been looking forward to experimenting/exploring the tilt/shift aspect of the TS-E 24 for a while. I love the technical and creative possibilities, and I am a tinkerer! I just, for some reason, never got around to it! I usually get carried away with simply capturing whatever is in front of me. A dedicated tilt shoot project as you, artd, suggest would be in order. I do not have enough experience with the lens to visualize the shot without planning, and cannot plan with visualizing the shot. So forcing myself to go out and take a tilt shot
...Show more

You could certainly try a dedicated "tilt shoot" . I might actually suggest a dedicated "shift shoot" first, as that function is more intuitive and its utility more immediately obvious. Try this as an experiment...take your TS-E lens out for a shoot on a tripod, and for every shot, before you even look through the viewfinder or turn on live view, set up with the camera pointed level and keep it that way. Feel free to pan left or right, but vow to yourself that you won't point the camera up or down, no matter what! You'll be forced to use the shift knob to compose.




Dec 23, 2014 at 12:59 AM
Scott Stoness
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Thinking of Selling My Zeiss 21mm and TS-E 24 Mk II for a EF 16-35 f/4?


Focus Locus wrote:
Why does everyone talk about the 16-35/4 in all these comparisons, and few barely mention the 16-35/2.8 version II?


The 16-35 2.8 v2 is better at f2.8 but otherwise the 16-35 f4 is as good as it plus it has IS. So for a landscape person, the f4 version is better. Eg. when handheld landscape at f8, the IS really matters. But the f2.8 only matters for nights cape and indoors.



Dec 23, 2014 at 12:59 PM
jeetsukumaran
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Thinking of Selling My Zeiss 21mm and TS-E 24 Mk II for a EF 16-35 f/4?


Thanks again, all.

I actually have used vertical shifting, to avoid leaning trees/buildings in some compositions. They make for a subtly cleaner photograph. Sometimes, however, the leaning trees etc. add drama to the compositions and sometimes the straight-lines are more appropriate. I guess my most recent usage of lens tended to go for the "drama of the lean", and that's why I did not think I used movements.

The two types of tilt photography I am interested in doing:

(1) The classic near-far composition, with an interesting foreground object and everything in focus all the way up to a dramatic background. I think I can only work this in a place where the fore and middle ground is relatively flat, like a beach or a field? Otherwise, with a high-sculpted terrain (such as a valley that falls away), it will not fall within the DOF of the tilt?

(2) Walls. No, seriously. I am talking about e.g., Mayan ruins, but also any other really weathered, lichen covered walls.




Dec 23, 2014 at 01:09 PM
Sneakyracer
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Thinking of Selling My Zeiss 21mm and TS-E 24 Mk II for a EF 16-35 f/4?


Focus Locus wrote:
Why does everyone talk about the 16-35/4 in all these comparisons, and few barely mention the 16-35/2.8 version II?


Because the 16-35/4L IS whips the 16-35/2.8L silly at all settings except at f2.8

I have the 24mm TSE II and it is a stunning lens but I use the shift almost ALL the time! I have only used tilt in extreme cases where I have a foreground VERY close to the lens and I want everything in focus. Worked great but I don't use the tilt often.



Dec 23, 2014 at 09:20 PM
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