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Archive 2014 · If I return my 7D Mk II, who pays

  
 
flyfishertoo
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · If I return my 7D Mk II, who pays




mogud wrote:
I'm confused about the question. Respectively, why do you care who pays?

You purchased an item from a retail establishment that allows you to return that item if you are not satisfied. Can you return the camera to the store or have you gone past the return time period? If you can still return the camera, walk to the store and return it. Either get a new camera or a credit against your credit card.

If you bought the camera online, and still within the return period, call/email the online store and ask them how to return purchases. If you
...Show more

I'm not saying that I wouldn't return to the store, but small local stores have a difficult time surviving without making them take the loss for a reason that is not their fault. They have exchanged once no questions asked even though they thought the first body was good. Not sure I want to ask them to take a hit a second time.



Dec 19, 2014 at 10:04 AM
mogud
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · If I return my 7D Mk II, who pays


flyfishertoo wrote:
I'm not saying that I wouldn't return to the store, but small local stores have a difficult time surviving without making them take the loss for a reason that is not their fault. They have exchanged once no questions asked even though they thought the first body was good. Not sure I want to ask them to take a hit a second time.


The store you purchased the camera from will return the camera as defective to Canon. I'm assuming this store is an authorized Canon reseller? Canon will credit the stores merchant account for the defective camera. Shipping cost is usually Canon's responsibility and not the stores.

Calling Canon in this situation would be a waste of time and likely frustrating. If the store won't exchange the camera, your only recourse is to call Canon setvice and have the camera serviced under warranty.



Dec 19, 2014 at 10:18 AM
uz2work
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · If I return my 7D Mk II, who pays


I agree 100% with those who have said that comparing 10 megapixel 40D images and 20 megapixel 7D Mark II images both at 100% is a meaningless comparison and one that gives a significant and unfair advantage to the the 40D images.

Another way to make a fairer, if not perfect, comparison would be to open a 7D Mark II image at 100% and a 40D image at 150% and to compare those images. Such a comparison, which is simple to do, would give a more realistic comparison of how the two images would look, related to each other, as prints or as full images on the screen.

Another factor to consider when comparing 40D images to 7D Mark II images is that, with a high pixel density sensor, like that on the 7D or 7D Mark II, images are going to be much more subject to degradation from factors like even very minor motion blur and camera shake than would images from a lower pixel density sensor, like that on the 40D. That is why, when I'm using a camera like the 7D or 7D Mark II and, particularly, when shooting hand held, I try to get shutter speeds at least twice as fast as I would have felt to be sufficient when using cameras like like the 40D, 1D Mark II, 1D Mark III, etc. And, similarly, when those who are looking forward to a 50 megapixel full frame camera get what they want, they will need to make similar shutter speed adjustments to maximize the benefits of the 50 megapixel sensor compared to what they are doing with their current 21 megapixel full frame cameras.



Dec 19, 2014 at 10:28 AM
flyfishertoo
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · If I return my 7D Mk II, who pays


To everyone, thanks for your thoughts and suggestions. Sounds like I have been expecting too much of the camera. I adjust my shooting techniques to allow for the better sensor and possibly post examples here, along with the exif data, rather than return the camera or send to Canon. I didn't realize that the sensor improvement would have that much of an effect on everything else I have done for years.


Dec 19, 2014 at 01:32 PM
flyfishertoo
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · If I return my 7D Mk II, who pays


mogud wrote:
The store you purchased the camera from will return the camera as defective to Canon. I'm assuming this store is an authorized Canon reseller? Canon will credit the stores merchant account for the defective camera. Shipping cost is usually Canon's responsibility and not the stores.

Calling Canon in this situation would be a waste of time and likely frustrating. If the store won't exchange the camera, your only recourse is to call Canon setvice and have the camera serviced under warranty.


Definitely an authorized Canon reseller. I only call Canon as a last resort. Past experience has taught me not to expect satisfaction. Love their equipment, not so much their service.



Dec 19, 2014 at 01:35 PM
flyfishertoo
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · If I return my 7D Mk II, who pays


uz2work wrote:
I agree 100% with those who have said that comparing 10 megapixel 40D images and 20 megapixel 7D Mark II images both at 100% is a meaningless comparison and one that gives a significant and unfair advantage to the the 40D images.

Another way to make a fairer, if not perfect, comparison would be to open a 7D Mark II image at 100% and a 40D image at 150% and to compare those images. Such a comparison, which is simple to do, would give a more realistic comparison of how the two images would look, related to each other, as
...Show more

Thanks. I will up my shutter speed, quite viewing at 100%. If I go beyond my refund/exchange period, then I will reluctantly deal with Canon.



Dec 19, 2014 at 01:37 PM
EB-1
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · If I return my 7D Mk II, who pays


flyfishertoo wrote:
Rather than start another topic, I will ask those who have responded here. What other changes do I need to make to adjust to the higher density sensor. Any suggestions for reading? Processing changes?

Thanks

Don


Sharpness per pixel may be a little less, but overall IQ will be better. You may see more differences between good lenses and excellent lenses at the pixel level. Of course every sensor produces images that require slightly different processing parameters. Overall the newer body should not be a significant problem.

EBH



Dec 19, 2014 at 06:29 PM
mogud
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · If I return my 7D Mk II, who pays


In all fairness, you wouldn't be asking "who pays" or exchange one 7d2 for another if your camera was working to your satisfaction. As a result, Imagemaster makes a good point. If you are not getting what you expect from the 7D II, there are many experienced people here who can help resolve the issue. The way to have this discussion is to post the offending images with EXIF attached. If your problem is resolved, you don't need to ask...."who pays".

At this point, I think I answered your question, but if you want help with what your experiencing with your 7D II post pictures with EXIF.



Dec 19, 2014 at 06:42 PM
flyfishertoo
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · If I return my 7D Mk II, who pays


mogud wrote:
In all fairness, you wouldn't be asking "who pays" or exchange one 7d2 for another if your camera was working to your satisfaction. As a result, Imagemaster makes a good point. If you are not getting what you expect from the 7D II, there are many experienced people here who can help resolve the issue. The way to have this discussion is to post the offending images with EXIF attached. If your problem is resolved, you don't need to ask...."who pays".

At this point, I think I answered your question, but if you want help with what your experiencing with your
...Show more

Pg 1, panel 11 I posted, "I would be happy to post an image(s). What would be best, RAW, jpg, other?". No one has yet answered that question. As soon as I know what is best, I will post a photo or two.



Dec 19, 2014 at 06:59 PM
Access
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · If I return my 7D Mk II, who pays


flyfishertoo wrote:
I'm not saying that I wouldn't return to the store, but small local stores have a difficult time surviving without making them take the loss for a reason that is not their fault. They have exchanged once no questions asked even though they thought the first body was good. Not sure I want to ask them to take a hit a second time.

I'm not sure I understand this reasoning, maybe I'm just a free market kind of guy. If the business is based on a poor model (ie. an overly permissive return policy), people who take advantage of that are actually doing the world a favor since they will either discover the policy is faulty and reform it, becoming a more able business in the long run, or as a poorly run business, they will suffer because of it.

It's always more important to think long term, 3-5 years ahead, not get trapped in the short-term thinking that we see all too often predominating in the modern world. The idea of the free market is to encourage a type of economic darwinism where the most fit businesses survive, while the least fit businesses suffer and ultimately perish (and then get replaced by new businesses that do a better job than they did). Many businesses have already learned the dangers of an overly liberal return policy, this is why restocking fees (typically between 15-25%) are charged once the box is opened (since it can only be sold thereafter as an 'open box' item, typically at a discount). We have seen the evolution of the local camera store in the last 10 years, and while many have died off, the survivors that remain tend to be well-run businesses that provide good value to the consumer and the local photographic community.



Dec 19, 2014 at 07:18 PM
mogud
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · If I return my 7D Mk II, who pays


flyfishertoo wrote:
Pg 1, panel 11 I posted, "I would be happy to post an image(s). What would be best, RAW, jpg, other?". No one has yet answered that question. As soon as I know what is best, I will post a photo or two.


JPEG is the best because RAW can take forever to load given not all members have the bandwidth. Please include EXIF as well including where the focus point was placed and the lens used.

Edited on Dec 19, 2014 at 07:40 PM · View previous versions



Dec 19, 2014 at 07:31 PM
mogud
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · If I return my 7D Mk II, who pays


Access wrote:
I'm not sure I understand this reasoning, maybe I'm just a free market kind of guy. If the business is based on a poor model (ie. an overly permissive return policy), people who take advantage of that are actually doing the world a favor since they will either discover the policy is faulty and reform it, becoming a more able business in the long run, or as a poorly run business, they will suffer because of it.

It's always more important to think long term, 3-5 years ahead, not get trapped in the short-term thinking that we see all too
...Show more

While Adam Smith was a wise economist, his theories were not developed to take into account online shopping.

I am a true capitalist and may the smartest and the fittest survive and all others go to zero. Notwithstanding, restocking fees are charged by retailers who tend not to understand their cost structure and use the restocking fee as a revenue stream.

Edited on Dec 19, 2014 at 07:42 PM · View previous versions



Dec 19, 2014 at 07:37 PM
pjbuehner
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · If I return my 7D Mk II, who pays


don't forget that whatever lens you have in front of the camera is a huge part of the equation.


Dec 19, 2014 at 07:38 PM
jcunwired
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · If I return my 7D Mk II, who pays


mogud wrote:
The store you purchased the camera from will return the camera as defective to Canon. I'm assuming this store is an authorized Canon reseller? Canon will credit the stores merchant account for the defective camera. Shipping cost is usually Canon's responsibility and not the stores.

Calling Canon in this situation would be a waste of time and likely frustrating. If the store won't exchange the camera, your only recourse is to call Canon setvice and have the camera serviced under warranty.


I would seriously advise against sending it to Canon. I made the mistake of thinking it was me with an original 7D and the return period expired. My camera was shipped back to Canon for inconsistent AF issues (3 times, twice with lenses) and their reply was "within spec". For over 2 years now I've photographed only in burst mode, hoping to get an image in focus. If it must count and I can, more often I must manual focus. It's not a fun place to be in.

Like others, I wonder why you care who pays? Are you willing to live with the short end of the bargain? Hell, as a consumer I'd return a bag of ice if I wasn't pleased.




Dec 19, 2014 at 08:24 PM
Charlie N
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · If I return my 7D Mk II, who pays


jcunwired wrote:
I have to ask, what will an OOF focus photo tell you, other than it's OOF? it seems to me to be a silly waste of time. Now if there is simply pleasure gained in berating others for not doing so, then by all means please carry on.


OOF can easily be a misinterpreted shutter shake or subject shake. It's not a waste of time.



Dec 19, 2014 at 10:00 PM
RobertLynn
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · If I return my 7D Mk II, who pays


big country wrote:
Canon may send you a return label and you can get your camera checked out.

I had issues w/ my 7D II. some people said it was me.

Here is the kind of shots i was getting before sending the camera to canon:

http://www.holzphotoclient.com/Gear/7D-II/i-pcFTH46/0/L/bad7dii-L.jpg

here are the kind of shots i am getting after getting the camera back:

http://www.holzphotoclient.com/Gear/7D-II/i-9fG49fj/1/L/0I2A6414-L.jpg

http://www.holzphotoclient.com/Gear/7D-II/i-xLrDdn7/1/L/0I2A6401-L.jpg

http://www.holzphotoclient.com/Gear/7D-II/i-BNWGf4j/2/XL/0I2A6897-XL.jpg

http://www.holzphotoclient.com/Gear/7D-II/i-Cgxf9cb/1/L/0I2A6692-L.jpg

Do what you want, but if you want a 7D II, i'd call canon and tell them to send me a shipping label instead of dealing getting another defective camera.


1- big country is a fantastic photographer.
2- if you want a 7DII don't play the lotto with it- send it to Canon and get it right from them.



Dec 20, 2014 at 12:01 AM
leftcoastlefty
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · If I return my 7D Mk II, who pays


flyfishertoo wrote:
If I return it, does the local store take the hit, or does it pass on to Canon?


Each industry has different relationships between manufacturers and retailers. I assume Canon "takes the hit", but the question is irrelevant. The answer shouldn't influence your decision. Even if your local store "takes the hit" or spends extra time and money processing the return, they fully recognize this as a cost of doing business. In the long run they should still profitable.



Dec 20, 2014 at 12:03 AM
aladyforty
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · If I return my 7D Mk II, who pays


I am curious to know what the original posters images are, it would be good to see them so we can get an idea if its camera or a user error. I'm interested because I hope to upgrade my 7D to this camera in the future. the outcome of this interests me anyway


Dec 20, 2014 at 12:49 AM
ahender
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · If I return my 7D Mk II, who pays


aladyforty wrote:
I am curious to know what the original posters images are, it would be good to see them so we can get an idea if its camera or a user error. I'm interested because I hope to upgrade my 7D to this camera in the future. the outcome of this interests me anyway


Since many posts in this thread have been removed because of a lack of courtesy to the OP, I doubt he will be posting any images. Just a guess on my part.



Dec 20, 2014 at 07:42 AM
jcolwell
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · If I return my 7D Mk II, who pays


Civility seems to be taking a holiday. Ironic, considering the time of year.


Dec 20, 2014 at 07:59 AM
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