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Archive 2014 · Advice on a move to Macbook Pro

  
 
JimRU
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Advice on a move to Macbook Pro




rw11 wrote:
run Windoze on the Mac

or drop into Unix - the Mac OS is really a Unix shell


I would consider windows on the Mac. It does seem weird to me, though. And isn't Windows 8 (and 10) geared toward touch screens? I don't know what Unix is, so that would likely be too big a hurdle for me right now.



Dec 18, 2014 at 02:53 AM
Alan321
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Advice on a move to Macbook Pro


Windows 8.1 and even 8 can be manipulated to work nicely on a traditional screen but on a Mac you will have have a few keyboard/mouse challenges. It's a lot better option than running two computers but not quite a perfect option for using both operating systems.

vmware Fusion will run Windows in a virtual environment. In fact it can run several different setups at the same time. It keeps Windows pretty much separate from OS X unless you allow some interaction.

Parallels will do that too, but will also run Windows and OS X together if you choose. In that mode double clicking a data file will run either a Windows program or an OS X program depending on your preferences. Very nice if you want the integration.

Both of these programs do not require you to reboot to switch to or from Windows, whereas the Apple Boot Camp option does. On the plus side, Boot Camp keeps Windows and OS X as separate as they can possibly be on a single computer.

I prefer the Parallels approach but I have had little experience with it and ran into a few problems trying to get Windows see the internet via the Apple hardware, using a cellular modem attached to a router connected via wi-fi. Maybe that setup is not allowed.

- Alan



Dec 18, 2014 at 03:13 AM
Alan321
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Advice on a move to Macbook Pro


Here's an example of an incompatibility:

I have a Ricoh GR camera that came with a windows version of Silky Pix. There is no Mac version provided. Nor does Lr know about the GR in terms of lens corrections. When I get a new Windows environment running on my MBP I will install and use the Windows version of Silky Pix to fix my GR images before importing them into Lr. Or at least that's the plan. If they were Nikon or Canon raw files instead of DNG then I could probably not do it because only one program has first go at raw files.

- Alan



Dec 18, 2014 at 03:19 AM
RustyBug
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Advice on a move to Macbook Pro


Alan has made a bevy of valid points.

The irony about the Apple-think is that I have to think about getting the biggest SSD in it today because I must think about tomorrow, etc. ... YET, tomorrow Apple won't allow you to make any changes to accommodate your tomorrow needs, when tomorrow changes.

The external optical solution and the external storage seemed a bit antithesis to the point of having a powerful laptop solution. I'm not wanting to drag around wires, adapters and external devices to setup shop. The "maybe" an anti-glare screen will come was another issue for me.

+1 @ Alan's point @ cheap PC's ... but I don't think the OP was going there anyway.

As to Win10 ... my preliminary research is that Windows will be invoking much of Win 7 that supports the keyboard oriented as the base with the options to invoke the touch screen oriented approach. That looks promising for the interface ... not sure about the architecture base @ 7 vs. 8 though.

Alan is much more tech savvy than I ... and if he is running into issues with Win on Mac, then that says a bit for me. If I had no needs other than Apple software, the issue would be MUCH more compelling, but for me it became more of an issue of what Apple / Mac is NOT (the parts that nobody ever hypes about) than what Mac is.

I think the telling tale for me would be to look at how many CAD users operate on Mac's vs. Windows. Diff strokes for diff folks, but I've never been in a company running their enterprise on Mac's. I've seen plenty of individuals use Mac's and swear by them. Their passion is engaging and they make one curious to what is on the other side.

For me, it is like coming across someone driving a convertible who raves about how much they love driving it so nimbly. It is infectious. Meanwhile, I'm driving a pickup truck. So when they need to haul something other than a suitcase or two ... they are going to hitch a trailer (external storage, etc.). In the meantime, I'm spending a bit more on gas for daily use.

Life on a bike is diff from life in a convertible vs. sedan vs. SUV vs. pickup. They all have their pro's / con's and compromises. I've had/have each. For me, the truck is my main vehicle, the bike is my thrill. The truck will do most anything I ask of it except look sexy or be as nimble as my bike. Although, a sport truck isn't a bad compromise.

Momma loves her SUV, but then again, she doesn't go to Lowe's to bring home the lumber, just Kroger's for the milk and eggs. The convertible does fine at the grocery story ... and can work for some things @ Loves, just not a refrigerator or a load of mulch. She doesn't need or want a truck, so the Jeep is just right for her ... and she loves her Apple products.

That's kind of how I feel about my T430s @ it does what I ask of it (akin to the truck).
I WANTED to like the Mac, but couldn't quite get there. Same goes for Win 8. We'll see what Win 10 brings to the table.

Again, diff strokes for diff folks ... just know what you're getting, whichever way you go.



Dec 18, 2014 at 08:38 AM
JimRU
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Advice on a move to Macbook Pro


Thanks for all of the input, everyone. It's been very helpful. I've now ordered several laptops and I'll just pick the one I like the most.


Dec 19, 2014 at 02:01 AM
Alan321
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Advice on a move to Macbook Pro


One thing, Jim: if I tried that here in Australia then I'd be stuck with several laptops. We can't get away with returning stuff just because we don't like it or we change our mind - it has to be defective. Very different marketing in US.

- Alan



Dec 19, 2014 at 03:37 AM
JimRU
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Advice on a move to Macbook Pro


Alan321 wrote:
One thing, Jim: if I tried that here in Australia then I'd be stuck with several laptops. We can't get away with returning stuff just because we don't like it or we change our mind - it has to be defective. Very different marketing in US.

- Alan


Usually that's the case here as well with the exception of a couple of manufacturers (Dell, e.g.), but several places make exceptions during the holidays (Lenovo, e.g.). I told the sellers in advance that I was comparing laptops and would return all but one. I do feel bad about it, but without being able to try them before I buy, it puts me in a bad spot.



Dec 19, 2014 at 10:03 AM
RustyBug
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Advice on a move to Macbook Pro


Hey,

Shipping costs is much less than staffing and inventorying a retail store. The mfr's decided to go away from stocking the really good stuff ... the consumer has no alternative, which is why so many online retailers have a "no questions" asked return policy.

DO NOT feel bad about them forcing you into a "buy & try" scenario ... IT IS PART OF THEIR BUSINESS MODEL @ the cost of doing business their chosen way. They made that decision as the most profitable way to conduct business, not me. It is a relative small, necessary expense to them, in the grand scheme of things.

No different than a retail store pays the overhead on the electric bill so you can see the products on their shelves. It is part of the cost of doing business. They chose it, we simply suffer to endure it.






Dec 19, 2014 at 02:51 PM
JimRU
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Advice on a move to Macbook Pro


Makes sense, Rusty, and of course you're right. But I still feel a little bad about it. That said, I did tell each vendor the plan and they didn't have an issue with it.


Dec 19, 2014 at 04:31 PM
sb in ak
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Advice on a move to Macbook Pro


Upgraded to a 2.3Ghz Retina 15'' Macbook in July from an older Macbook. Discrete graphics. 16GB Ram. It's a good machine....love the clarity the high res screen provides. I don't think you'll need the discrete graphics for what you describe.

Keep in mind that the Ram is no longer upgradable, so you might want to just max it out for futureproofing. I think the new ones are all 16GB, though. But the slightly older refurbs are often the best deals goin.



Dec 20, 2014 at 10:38 PM
Snead
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Advice on a move to Macbook Pro


A few months ago I bought a MacBook Pro w/2.8 CPU and 1TB Flashdrive, using the Apple "Friends and Family" discount plan but returned it after using it for 10 days. The hardware is OK but the operating software sucks and forget about compatibility with PC's. I found it very restrictive when compared with Windows' wide open system and it locked up on me several times. I have expected better after hearing Mac owners brag!

I wound up buying a Thinkpad W540 which in my opinion is a better machine with the ability to switch from DVD drive to 2nd harddrive and is about $1K cheaper but it's not as stylish as the MBP.



Dec 21, 2014 at 07:42 AM
RustyBug
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Advice on a move to Macbook Pro


+1 @ the W540 ... my T430s is it's little brother. I tried the W530, just a bit larger than I wanted ... but then again it IS a mobile WORKSTATION ... including FOUR SLOTS for RAM, so you can easily put up to 32GB RAM in it or eventually 64GB using 16GB sticks as long as you are using a professional version of Windows to use that much RAM.

Edited on Dec 21, 2014 at 01:16 PM · View previous versions



Dec 21, 2014 at 12:11 PM
Vancouver47
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Advice on a move to Macbook Pro


I have been using a Mac since '89 and PC's since '95 on a daily basis, both with a variety of operating systems on each. Hardly a day goes by that I don't have a "you can't be serious" moment with the OS and software on the PC. Give yourself a treat and get a Mac. You'll wonder why you took so long. Even a 2008 Macbook can handle the latest LR and Photoshop on a 24" monitor with ease and in 64bit. It's not as fast as my latest MBP but works just fine. I doubt a 6 year old PC will run anything recent.


Dec 21, 2014 at 12:29 PM
RustyBug
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Advice on a move to Macbook Pro


Honest

Okay ... so why have you been using PC's on a daily basis since '95 if the Mac OS is such a "treat"?

As to the "you can't be serious" ... I can believe that for a lot of Win 8 that is trying to be "Mac-like" and doing a terrible job of it (imo). To me, PC's do best operating as PC's always have, not trying to be something they're not.

I'm not sure I follow on the "6 year old PC" comment ... why wouldn't a 6 year old PC run anything current. I'm pretty sure a 6 year old mobile workstation can still run anything out there (even AutoCad). The scalable aspect of mobile PC workstations is kind of the point for them ... which is a different animal from a consumer PC. All PC's are NOT created equal.



Dec 21, 2014 at 01:26 PM
Vancouver47
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Advice on a move to Macbook Pro


RustyBug wrote:
Honest

Okay ... so why have you been using PC's on a daily basis since '95 if the Mac OS is such a "treat"?

As to the "you can't be serious" ... I can believe that for a lot of Win 8 that is trying to be "Mac-like" and doing a terrible job of it (imo). To me, PC's do best operating as PC's always have, not trying to be something they're not.

I'm not sure I follow on the "6 year old PC" comment ... why wouldn't a 6 year old PC run anything current. I'm pretty sure a 6
...Show more

Our corporate billing system is Windows only. Unbelievably Explorer only as well. Some of our in house programs were created on PC's thus our work laptops are all Windows 7 or higher now. Three of four IT staff use Macs at home. Those of us that travel with our PC laptop frequently find we are blocked from onsite wireless networks, while a Mac will practically connect to a fire hydrant. Thus many of us bring iPads, MacBooks of iPhones to be sure we can get online without an hour long hassle turning something off in Windows that is blocking access today, but not the day before. Go figure??

We have upgraded all of our laptops in the past two years because the many of our older machines could not run either a required OS or software. I'm not sure which.

A recent annoyance for all of us is "?? program" "Has Stopped Working" "Windows is attempting to fix the problem....." So far Windows has never fixed a single problem, ever, for anyone.

There are dozens and dozens of these constant Windows annoyances that simply never occur on a Mac. Sure Mac has a few issues but they are so minor and so few and far between compared to Windows it's hardly worth mentioning.



Dec 21, 2014 at 01:51 PM
RustyBug
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Advice on a move to Macbook Pro


I figured you were an IT professional, but there are a couple points that you make that raise questions for some folks.

1) If the corporate billing system is Windows only ...

The software industry (all industries) write their software to an OS. To a certain degree, the software industry dictates the direction of a platform choice that some might take if they have interests in software that is NOT available for Mac or other OS, except for Windows OS.

2) "older machines" could not run a required OS ...

Were those machines configured to the maximum available capability from 6 years ago, or were they configured to a lesser capability of the technology available (i.e. bean counters cheaped out)? But, the real question is whether a machine configured today will still be capable of running software 6 years from now. I think that if you purchase a properly configured PC, the answer is a resounding yes ... especially since that PS has already told us that there will be no newer versions of PS beyond CC. Anything that can run PS today will be able to run PS tomorrow.

Barring an industry change to 128 bit OS and no 64 bit or 32 bit programs available occurring within the next 6 years, current PC's capable of running 64 bit programs will not be obsolete in 6 years that I would be concerned with.

Honest

If Windows is such a terrible OS ... why do so many software companies still write software to Windows only ?

Similarly, what enterprise system(s) allows enterprise / companies to run Mac's ? I've never been around a company that uses Mac for their networked machines. I've only seen those using non-Mac.



Dec 21, 2014 at 02:57 PM
Vancouver47
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Advice on a move to Macbook Pro


RustyBug wrote:
I figured you were an IT professional, but there are a couple points that you make that raise questions for some folks.

1) If the corporate billing system is Windows only ...

The software industry (all industries) write their software to an OS. To a certain degree, the software industry dictates the direction of a platform choice that some might take if they have interests in software that is NOT available for Mac or other OS, except for Windows OS.

2) "older machines" could not run a required OS ...

Were those machines configured to the maximum available capability from 6 years
...Show more

I'm not an IT pro. I could never last a week dealing with the never ending idiocy of the Microsoft world. Word has become such a ridiculous program that it takes our secretaries a week or two to turn off all the new idiotic choices it makes for the user.

No they were middle cost laptops for the most part. All were junked when swapped out. My 6 year old Macbook sold for $540. That Macbook started out as 32 bit but a change of OS at one point switched it to 64bit allowing me to upgrade from 2 gb to 8gb memory. No 6 year old PC could perform that switch.

Certainly the corporate world became trapped in the microsoft side because memory in the late 80's and 90's was so expensive and required to run a graphic interface like the Mac. Once there they have stayed. Fortunately PC's are now able to display the entire line of text on screen, but PC's still can't manage to print things as displayed onscreen with many programs.

I recall the Ontario medical billing system was run on an all Mac network that include Macs as old as ten years. The entire network was run by two, yes TWO IT techs whose biggest headache was dealing with receptionists who couldn't remember passwords after returning from vacation. PC networks on the other hand seem to require one IT tech for every fifty users.



Dec 21, 2014 at 03:12 PM
RustyBug
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Advice on a move to Macbook Pro


Vancouver47 wrote:

turn off all the new idiotic choices it makes for the user.

No they were middle cost laptops for the most part.


That goes back to my longstanding point that the more that Windows tries to be "Mac-like" the worse they get ... looking forward to Win 10 being a (partial) reversion from Win 8.

Mac has a different design from PC ... no debate there. It works as it does because of its underlying concept(s). Trying to make a PC think like a Mac is a (imo) recipe for folly. I thought XP was probably the best OS Windows had and it was built on the strengths of the PC platform. Then Windows started trying to make software "intuitive" ... and it started undoing some of the hierarchal strengths that PC's were built upon and longstanding users of PC's were invested in @ knowledge / workflow.

"middle cost laptops" ... kinda like saying an a Chevy Malibu doesn't perform like a Porsche, therefore American cars are junk.

The OP was asking about MBP, so he is clearly not looking for middle cost compromises ... probably should keep the comparison to high end PC's vs. high end Mac's. Dare I say that it is all too commonplace for people who bash PC's to do so without ever having had a well configured high end / workstation PC ... only comparing them to such modest forms of mediocrity.

Put Mac's best against PC's best ... I'm still haven't seen the laptop Mac that has 32GB RAM and can run 10 bit graphics. Not that everyone needs a fully configured 32GB workstation, but at least give credence to the fact that some PC's do have that which Mac does not, rather than bashing PC based on 6 year old "middle cost laptops".

BTW ... for the record, I didn't like the changes that Windows made to Word/Office Win 8 either ... If I wanted software that was trying to be "Mac-like", I'd have bought a Mac (which is why I seriously considered looking at Mac) ... who knows, maybe in 6 years I'll be a Mac guy.



Dec 21, 2014 at 03:37 PM
Vancouver47
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Advice on a move to Macbook Pro


Rusty bug - "All PC's are NOT created equal."

Very true, however they're all burdened with the worst and getting worse OS's conceivable with all the issues I have previously listed and many many more.

BTW- the PC laptop's we discarded were 4 and 5 years old. It was my Macbook that was 6 years old and still worth $540.

Question: Has Windows ever "fixed the problem" for you, when out of the blue an application "stopped working"?



Dec 21, 2014 at 07:27 PM
Paul Gardner
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Advice on a move to Macbook Pro


A MBP is great "IF" you don't require it to do any industrial work. I do use an MBP 2.7Ghz with a 30" Cinama display and a Thunderbolt connection to a 1TB SSD and Final Cut Pro for video work, Adobe 2014CC also works well, but other than that it is mostly useless. I do admit I do my photography on my MBP.
Try using an Apple as an industrial controller. (IE an irrigation system or an ore handling system in the mining industry). Most of the complainers about PCs have a very short memory or no knowledge of the real usage of PCs all they see is the consumer TIP the iceberg.
As for software most third party soft is so poorly written (usually in Basic) that it can't even be certified for DOD work and C++ ( the bean counter language) is laughable. K&R & assembly sadly is long gone.





Dec 21, 2014 at 07:44 PM
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