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Archive 2014 · Einstein vs alien bee 1600

  
 
newusaa
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Einstein vs alien bee 1600


I think I have already made up my mind in favor of the alien bee, but never used either so wanted to get some input. I really don't need fast flash times, and I think the controls of the ab will appeal to me much more. I only do field work and in the dark many times. The supposed color variance I don't think will affect me too much either, and the bee is a pound lighter to boot. Price difference is 170 if you factor in the reflector which is absent from the einstein purchase.


Dec 12, 2014 at 11:04 PM
kdphotography
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Einstein vs alien bee 1600


The Einstein is a better light both in design and use. (I have and use both AB1600 and Einsteins).

Short flash duration is helpful, but you might be surprised how important color consistency is as well. The Einstein is much easier to adjust light output compared to the rather dated slider used by the AB. The slider is inaccurate and and does take more fiddling to make adjustments. The Einstein also has a glass dome cover over the flash tube, which also is a safety consideration compared to the exposed tube design of the AB. The tube is better protected when changing modifiers, which is of note considering the dated Balcar mount used by both systems.

It may not be as important, but the Einstein is also easier to integrate with wireless triggers/controls if the CyberCommander is on your shopping list. The Einstein's transceiver works well. User-enabled firmware updates on the Einstein is a plus.

Both are well-built and of course have great customer service. I'll probably sell two of my Alien Bee B800s, maybe the two B1600s too, and replace them with Einsteins.

ken

Edited on Dec 13, 2014 at 10:37 AM · View previous versions



Dec 13, 2014 at 10:24 AM
Mark_L
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Einstein vs alien bee 1600


It isn't just colour consistency that is an issue, power/output consistency is also a problem. Just watch Zack Arias trying to meter them on his CL courses


Dec 13, 2014 at 10:36 AM
markd61
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Einstein vs alien bee 1600


I use both Einsteins and Bees in the field all the time in the dark.

While the Einstein may have better shot to shot consistency it is hardly visible in the work I do. (architecture) The Bees represent much better value for field work as they are lighter, very rugged and if they bust, you send them in with $50 and get a new one.

The Einstein is a better choice for the studio as the consistency is better. OTOH when shooting people that move around a bit 1/3 to 1/2 stop variation will be the rule of the day no matter what strobes you use. As for color I have seen no difference in the Bees or Einstein or Hensel or Profoto or the cheap Chinese flashes. One sees more color variation in the modifiers from different vendors and with the age of the mods.

I cannot stand the button power control of the Einstein. Very slow compared to the sliders on the Bee or a knob such as Profoto and Hensel. I am already back at the camera with those when the Einstein is just approaching the setting I want. Other Bee users concur with me on this as with a bit of experience you can zip the slider exactly where you need to be.

The Cyber Syncs allow power control on the Bees in addition to the Einstein but that is a scant advantage unless the lights are a long way away, you have many lights, or have one in inaccessible location. I have use PWs and Yongnuos with great success with these flashes. Sold all of my CyberSyncs

In the end the specs on the Einstein sound great and no doubt they are, but IRL the controls are cluttered and slow and the performance differences are nearly impossible to see.



Dec 13, 2014 at 06:22 PM
Herb
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Einstein vs alien bee 1600


I have Einstein (4 of them) with the cyber commander and I find that they are great and responsive. Put them in action mode and they keep up at 4 to 6 frames per second no problem with battery power!

While I don't have experience with other strobes Einstein serves me well and wouldn't hesitate to purchase again.....if you get them, get the cyber commander as well.....great for adjustment....



Dec 14, 2014 at 03:51 PM
jjlad
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Einstein vs alien bee 1600


I've only used Einstein's twice and had modifiers hit the floor both times. Both times they were units that had been in for repair of the fingers so should have been secure.
If PCB would offer a Bowens mount for them they would be outstanding. Those diddle finger fasteners are a recipe for disaster and I would never use one anywhere near a model for fear of a lawsuit over a softbox crashing down onto her. Can a Bowens mounting collar be bolted onto them? That would solve the problem.



Dec 14, 2014 at 10:21 PM
tdlavigne
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Einstein vs alien bee 1600


I've used both (we had a dozen AB's at the studio I managed, I've owned a couple, and we also had 2 Einsteins), in addition I've used Speedo and Profoto so I have a decent bit of experience to compare all the products.

You haven't really said what exactly it is that you do...so it's all a matter of opinion, but that being said: AB's are "meh" as far as lighting goes. The mount, the fragile flash tubes, and the quality of the parts are all things that have left me disappointed in the past. Then there's color temp variances and the output issues, slow recycle times etc. As you can guess I'm not really their biggest fan, but I'll readily admit that unless you're doing something that requires somewhat fast shooting, and consistency throughout several images they're more than enough for most and to be quite honest they are the best bang for your buck.

I've only tried the Einsteins on 2 separate occasions, but both times they just reminded me of digital AB's. I didn't shoot them on anything important so I can't speak on the recycle times, temps, output etc....just the quality seems to be about on par with the ABs. Performance wise from what I'm told by other photographers they're better with regards to consistency though. Adjustments were easier with the dial vs. the digital buttons though. That CyberCommander idea seemed cool, but was a pain to set up.

So again, without knowing what you do or your style of shooting I can't really suggest either one...other than to say if you don't care for consistency (or don't mind spending time in post to remedy it) and are on a budget then I'd just get the AB's.




Dec 15, 2014 at 07:04 PM
newusaa
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Einstein vs alien bee 1600


markd61 wrote:
I use both Einsteins and Bees in the field all the time in the dark.

While the Einstein may have better shot to shot consistency it is hardly visible in the work I do. (architecture) The Bees represent much better value for field work as they are lighter, very rugged and if they bust, you send them in with $50 and get a new one.

The Einstein is a better choice for the studio as the consistency is better. OTOH when shooting people that move around a bit 1/3 to 1/2 stop variation will be the rule of the day no matter
...Show more

Thanks to all for the replies.

Intuitively, I feel like you mark when I read about the control options on the einstein vs the ab's. In the dark, at night in the field I'd much rather have a physical slider.

I very much appreciate your comments about color temp too. Again, intuitively, I figured the slight variance would hardly be noticeable firing them at buildings/homes.

All in all I feel like the bee may be a better choice when not even considering the price. Close call though hence the thread

Thanks again to all, any more comments welcomed and appreciated



Dec 17, 2014 at 03:24 PM
kdphotography
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Einstein vs alien bee 1600


If you're working in the dark, "at night in the field"---you might want to consider that the back control panel of the ABs is black---as in the power switch is the only control button that is lit. Otherwise, you'll be be fumbling in the dark for that small power slider (it's the same fumbling in a dimly lit studio. The Einsteins have a well-lit back panel and the power buttons are much larger and easier to adjust in the dark. The Einstein is much easier to adjust power output and dial in consistently for exposure than the AB. That same consistency and accuracy in setting power output also will impact colors, and depending on your subject matter, "close enough" may not be acceptable.

I photograph mostly portraiture and do quite a bit of art copy work/reproduction and the difference using the Einsteins over the AB is noticeable in my work. It might not have an impact on your type of work, or if you're not a frequent user of strobes, then the AB may be a more economical choice (with a small hiking headlamp)



Dec 17, 2014 at 07:43 PM
jzucker
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Einstein vs alien bee 1600


jjlad wrote:
I've only used Einstein's twice and had modifiers hit the floor both times. Both times they were units that had been in for repair of the fingers so should have been secure.
If PCB would offer a Bowens mount for them they would be outstanding. Those diddle finger fasteners are a recipe for disaster and I would never use one anywhere near a model for fear of a lawsuit over a softbox crashing down onto her. Can a Bowens mounting collar be bolted onto them? That would solve the problem.


Disagree. The fingers on the einsteins regularly hold a 4x6 softbox for me with no problem. Additionally, buff increased the spring tension on the alien bees so they can also hold a 4x6 softbox. While it's true the bowens mount is superior, in practical use the balcar (buff) mount works fine.



Dec 27, 2014 at 08:53 PM
newusaa
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Einstein vs alien bee 1600


kdphotography wrote:
If you're working in the dark, "at night in the field"---you might want to consider that the back control panel of the ABs is black---as in the power switch is the only control button that is lit. Otherwise, you'll be be fumbling in the dark for that small power slider (it's the same fumbling in a dimly lit studio. The Einsteins have a well-lit back panel and the power buttons are much larger and easier to adjust in the dark. The Einstein is much easier to adjust power output and dial in consistently for exposure than the AB. That same
...Show more

I do see what you are saying. I am not so much concerned about being able to see the back of a bee, as it has the readily available, tactile lever there to slide, maybe similar to something like turning on a flashlight in the dark. Like I said I don't have experience with either, but to me the actual physical lever seems more "night proof" I am also like the other poster in that I am usually in a hurry and i dont want to scroll through menu(s). I am thinking at this point when the time comes ill get the bee.

Thanks to all for the input.



Dec 27, 2014 at 09:52 PM
NCAndy
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Einstein vs alien bee 1600


I have 4 Einstein units. I started with AB 1600s but quickly traded them in for the Einsteins. I use the CyberCommander in hand while a CyberSync Transmitter is on camera. That allows me to trigger any unit for measurement away from the camera. The CC took a little getting used to but it works well for me now. I've been happy with the system and it seems consistent in output and color temp. My experience with Buff customer service has been excellent.


Dec 28, 2014 at 11:36 PM
Planetwide
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Einstein vs alien bee 1600


Hi Folks,

I do quite a bit of real estate and architectural work these days. I am using a bunch of Canon 600rt's, but I am in the need for more power over multiple lights. I am thinking of switching to Einsteins with the Cyber Commander, and the Cybersync much as NC Andy does. I would probably be using both systems for more complicated lighting. Has anybody done this? Was there any color differences between the Canon's and the buffs?

The buffs would be powered from Vagabonds, what is the Vagabond life on a single Einstein?

Thanks

Andrew



Feb 02, 2015 at 01:06 AM
NCAndy
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Einstein vs alien bee 1600


I've used my 600rt flashes with the Einsteins by using the Canon ST-E3 on the camera and setting the Einsteins on optical trigger. In the studio this works fine but outside in brighter conditions I guess it would be possible the Einstein wouldn't see the flash to fire. You could wire the Einstein to the camera if you had to though I try to avoid wires.

Buff says the Vagabond Mini, which is what I have, can shoot 400-500 frames powering one Einstein and about 200-250 with two. I haven't shot that many frames on one charge so I can't verify that spec. The Vagabond Extreme has more power.



Feb 02, 2015 at 11:27 AM
Planetwide
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Einstein vs alien bee 1600


Thanks NcAndy,

I am thinking that I could wire the buff trigger into the port on the ST-E3, and use the a cyber commander to control the Einsteins. I need wireless control of the lights.

Cheers.

Andrew



Feb 03, 2015 at 07:50 AM
SniperPhoto
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Einstein vs alien bee 1600


I have both strobes. I can say the Alien Bees are waaaaaaaay more durable. Also, the trigger setup on the Einsteins is a bit weak. I keep the Einsteins in studio and pack the Bees or Profoto B1's when I shoot on location.


Feb 06, 2015 at 09:50 AM
Wareseeker
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Einstein vs alien bee 1600


I love my Einsteins. Have not found any that I don't like.


Feb 10, 2015 at 11:46 PM
newusaa
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Einstein vs alien bee 1600


SniperPhoto wrote:
I have both strobes. I can say the Alien Bees are waaaaaaaay more durable. Also, the trigger setup on the Einsteins is a bit weak. I keep the Einsteins in studio and pack the Bees or Profoto B1's when I shoot on location.


I really didn't know that about the durabilty of the Einsteins vs bees. Have others had this same experience?



Feb 12, 2015 at 04:10 AM
Danner
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Einstein vs alien bee 1600


Keep in mid that the Einstein has a 9-stop adjustment range and the AB has 6. For table-top work, this is a significant feature difference, but probably not for architecture. For portable work, the wireless set-up on the Einsteins is also more tightly integrated and compact. At the end of the day, the Einstein is Paul Buff's improved Alien Bee. I am currently running about 7-8 year old AB's, but if I was buying new today, I'd get the Einsteins.


Feb 12, 2015 at 09:56 AM
newusaa
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Einstein vs alien bee 1600


Myself, I'll almost always be at half or full power with a bee, or I'd pull out a little strobe. From reading, and not experience, I don't see the drawbacks to the bee if using it in this manner, assuming one doesn't need faster flash speeds.


Feb 13, 2015 at 02:37 AM
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