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Archive 2014 · Buy a 70-200 now or save up for the 200 2.0 in a year

  
 
CRFTony
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Buy a 70-200 now or save up for the 200 2.0 in a year


I currently shoot primarily with my 85 1.4 and love it but I'm looking to get even more separation between my portrait subjects and the backgrounds. The 200mm prime is magical but the cost is terrifying. Has anyone used it that has also used a 70-200. Is the newer 70-200 even remotely close to the 200mm in terms of image quality, bokeh, etc? Any first hand knowledge is appreciated.


Dec 10, 2014 at 06:59 PM
trenchmonkey
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Buy a 70-200 now or save up for the 200 2.0 in a year


The 200 f2 is a better BG destroyer and there's no focus breathing.
That stop costs ya ~$1600 used. (4K if you want the VRII new) Tough
to justify unless you're makin' money at it. There was a thread on the
wide open bokeh/BG difference...I'll see if I can find it

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1313764/0#12537124



Dec 10, 2014 at 07:06 PM
Gregg Heckler
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Buy a 70-200 now or save up for the 200 2.0 in a year


Both lenses are wonderful for portraits and very sharp. Certainly the bokeh on the 200 is nicer wide open but so is the 70-200. I think you should decide based on whether you need a zoom or not and if you have the room for a 200 only. And, if you primarily shoot wide open. If all you do is outdoor it may not be as issue. But if you shoot portraits in door you may be pretty limited on space. The 70-200 focuses almost 2' closer. Plus, they both have VR but the 200 is double the weight. So, if you are doing a lot of hand holding that could be a factor. Either way, congratulations on your up and coming new lens, they are fantastic.


Dec 10, 2014 at 07:11 PM
Paul_K
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Buy a 70-200 now or save up for the 200 2.0 in a year


I use both the 200 VR and the 70-200 (VRII)

I prefer the sharpness, bokeh and background separation of the 200 over the 70-200 but find the bulk and weight quite a bother (I don't even consider using it handheld, always have it on a monopod)

That said, the 70-200 is an excellent lens as well, although my primary reason for buying it was it to replace my 2.8/80-200 AFD which I used for nearly for twenty as a bread and butter lens but unfortunately was too soft wide open on my D800.

Used both lenses for shooting catwalk, here's eg how pictures with the 200 worked out
http://www.pbase.com/paul_k/nieuwkoop
(quite a few close up's, not always 100% sharp due to the fast moving models, but IMO helpful to judge the separation, even with busy back grounds)

and here are some with the 70-200
http://upload.pbase.com/paul_k/salone_dela_moda
(sorry for the dark backgrounds, but enough background visible to judge the separation as well)

Both lenses have IMO problems though for use with portraits. The 200 is a bit long for inside portraits (unless you want real close ups) while the 70-200 has problems with focus breathing which effectively makes it a 135mm when using it for close ups set at 200mm.

I recently got a 2/135mm DC lens to which I think I will develop quite a liking (haven't shot very often wit it yet) Shot a catwalkshow with it as an experiment to see how it would perform for something other then portraits
http://www.pbase.com/paul_k/201411122_5_hrs_fame
AF is more then adequately fast desite not being AFS, DC is no issue since you obviously can shoot with it so IQ is more then acceptable, background separation is IMO better then the 70-200.

Here's a link to the pictures the 'official' photographer took with a D4 and 70-200 for comparison
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1555951391284879.1073741831.1517903831756302&type=3



Dec 10, 2014 at 08:01 PM
Chris Court
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Buy a 70-200 now or save up for the 200 2.0 in a year


You're used to the trade-offs of shooting primes, and you're a portrait guy. Wait for the 200 f2. You won't regret it.

C



Dec 10, 2014 at 08:14 PM
Kerry Pierce
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Buy a 70-200 now or save up for the 200 2.0 in a year


In general, I agree with Paul's comments. I'll add a bit of my own. For a long time, I used the 70-200 vrI, as a portrait lens and, given the right environment, I was very happy. There are certainly those times where a zoom is the best fit, at least for my style of shooting. I owned both the 105 and 135 DC long before I got the Nikon 70-200 or the 200 f/2, and I still love and use those lenses when they can fit into the scene. I've only had the 200 f/2 vrI (purchased used) a little over a year now, and it is certainly a magical lens, but it too, also doesn't always fit into a scene.

IMO, you can't hardly go wrong with any of them, provided that they fit into your style of shooting and the typical environments in which you shoot.

good luck
Kerry



Dec 10, 2014 at 08:16 PM
Two23
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Buy a 70-200 now or save up for the 200 2.0 in a year


Can't you just buy a used 70-200mm and be making money, and when you've made enough income from it simply sell it and buy a used 200mm? That's how I approach these issues.


Kent in SD



Dec 10, 2014 at 08:17 PM
Etherton
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Buy a 70-200 now or save up for the 200 2.0 in a year


I had the Canon 200L f/2 and while it was killer I ended up trading for the 70-200 MKII - plus some other lighting. Couldn't have been happier. Lighter and more versatile. Missed f/2 but it was definitely a better fit for me.


Dec 10, 2014 at 08:42 PM
johnctharp
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Buy a 70-200 now or save up for the 200 2.0 in a year


Two23 wrote:
Can't you just buy a used 70-200mm and be making money, and when you've made enough income from it simply sell it and buy a used 200mm? That's how I approach these issues.

Kent in SD


That was my line of thinking when I read the OP earlier- the challenge I ran into was this:

1. If your goal is to shoot portraits at 200/2.8 at MFD, you don't want the VR1 lens or Sigma's 70-200/2.8 due to that setting being their weakest so you're looking at the VR2 lens and Tamron's 70-200/2.8 VC.
2. Unfortunately, both lenses have fairly massive focus breathing, which means that you won't actually be getting the effect of 200/2.8 when shooting at MFD- more like 135/2.8.
3. Understanding that sensor size, physical aperture size, and focus distance are generally what define focus isolation, I'll note that the 85/1.4 at f/1.4 should provide better focus isolation than either 70-200/2.8 lenses mentioned above, literally because:

85mm divided by 1.4 -> 61mm is larger than 135mm divided by 2.8 -> 48mm

Meaning that the physical aperture of the 85/1.4 could be up to 20% larger than that of the zoom lens, assuming similar focus distances with similar framing. But even if the figures aren't exact, the zoom lens has a lot to make up and likely isn't going to provide a focus isolation advantage, especially not one worth the price.

And generally speaking, few lenses are definitely going to provide better isolation than an 85/1.4; the 200/2 just happens to be one of them, and generally the most wieldy for portraits because it's the shortest of the fast telephotos- a 400/2.8 or 600/4 should technically be better at pure subject isolation.



Dec 10, 2014 at 08:55 PM
Joseph.
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Buy a 70-200 now or save up for the 200 2.0 in a year


I've owned and shot extensively with the 70-200 2.8 VRII for 2 years, and in 2012, replaced it with the 200 f/2. Without looking at the lens info, I can pick the 200 f/2 shots every single time. To my eyes, the difference in rendering is HUGE between these two lenses, especially when distance is involved. The 200 f/2 can cream the background even if you're pretty far from the subject.

Another big factor is the use of TC's. The 70-200 loses some speed when you attach the TC-17E on it, and the viewfinder gets pretty dark. On the 200 f/2, you get a fast 340mm. The TC-14 and TC-17 don't seem to affect its focus speed at all.

IMO, I would pick up a 70-200 VRII now and see if it's good enough for your needs, but continue saving up for the 200 f/2. I'm pretty confident that the 70-200 will not lose much value in a year or so. You can then sell it and get the 200 f/2 when you've saved enough.



Dec 10, 2014 at 09:07 PM
Elijah
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Buy a 70-200 now or save up for the 200 2.0 in a year


Thanks to most of the members here, I am too, in the process of getting rid of my 70-200VRII for a 200VRI. 28/58/200 is a killer combo


Dec 11, 2014 at 08:04 AM
Steve Perry
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Buy a 70-200 now or save up for the 200 2.0 in a year


Why not buy a used 70-200 for now, save for the 200 F2, and then sell the 70-200 when you've saved enough? If you buy the 70-200 used, there's a good chance you'll lose next to nothing and you'll have it to use in the mean time while you save.


Dec 11, 2014 at 08:28 AM
PixelAmour
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Buy a 70-200 now or save up for the 200 2.0 in a year


Buy a 135 f/2 DC


Dec 11, 2014 at 09:35 AM
binary visions
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Buy a 70-200 now or save up for the 200 2.0 in a year


Steve Perry wrote:
Why not buy a used 70-200 for now, save for the 200 F2, and then sell the 70-200 when you've saved enough? If you buy the 70-200 used, there's a good chance you'll lose next to nothing and you'll have it to use in the mean time while you save.


Ding ding ding!

In addition, you'll have the opportunity to discover whether the 70-200 actually suits your needs without forking out extra thousands for the 200mm f/2. I mean, the latter is not just a cost investment. It's also large, heavy, requires a special lens cap, much less flexibility, etc. If you get the zoom and spend all your time at 200mm f/2.8 and don't even blink about the size, then maybe the prime is the right choice.



Dec 11, 2014 at 09:43 AM
Paul_K
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Buy a 70-200 now or save up for the 200 2.0 in a year


Since, as they say, a picture says more then a thousand words, I've looked into my files and concocted a gallery with portraits etc shot with the 2/200, 2.8/70-200 and 1.4/85

http://www.pbase.com/paul_k/85_vs_70200_vs_200

for direct comparison

As I have nowadays have several lenses at my disposal I prefer over the 70-200 for portraiture, I only have two examples shot with that lens

But IMO it shows that despite its greater flexibility the image rendering (I know, a highly personal criteria) of the 2/200 and 85mm are much more preferable

With regards to the 85mm, it for close ups indeed has excellent separation , but (again IMO) when used for shooting further away the background (in comparison to the 2/200) becomes too visible ( lesser bokeh, another one of those photographic terms which are cause for endless discussion)

So IMO if you can afford it, don't mind the bulky size and the weight, and have the space to use it, get the 2/200

PixelAmour wrote:
Buy a 135 f/2 DC


I kind of agree with the above remark. As I mentioned previously, I recently added one to my gear.
So far I like the image rendering, bokeh (even at longer distances) and separation, so I think I will use it as a lightweight 'replacement' for the 2/200 when I don't feel like lugging too much weight along and the insanely high IQ of that lens is not demanded






Dec 11, 2014 at 10:35 AM
sjms
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Buy a 70-200 now or save up for the 200 2.0 in a year


D4s w/70-200/2.8 II iso18000 135mm f4

Guitar Wrangler Adrian Belew











Edited on Dec 11, 2014 at 01:21 PM · View previous versions



Dec 11, 2014 at 11:26 AM
popinvasion
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Buy a 70-200 now or save up for the 200 2.0 in a year


If the 70-200 didn't focus breath to 135mm the 200 F2 would seem almost identical with just a tiny bit more blur. The reason the chub produces such different results is due to the focus breathing of the 70-200. The canon 70-200 doesn't have this problem, therefore the results of the 200 2 L and 70-200 L at 200 are very hard to tell apart without exif.

Edited on Dec 11, 2014 at 12:03 PM · View previous versions



Dec 11, 2014 at 11:32 AM
ckcarr
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Buy a 70-200 now or save up for the 200 2.0 in a year


If you have to ask... for a lens that's getting into the exotic price range, and you feel the price is terrifying... Then do you think you should even buy it?

Would a visual of your wife chasing you with a rolling pin, like an old time cartoon, be terrifying also?

I'd just buy a decent used 70-200mm VR1 and try for a while. $1,300 bucks..

What camera?



Dec 11, 2014 at 11:37 AM
Grantland
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Buy a 70-200 now or save up for the 200 2.0 in a year


Steve Perry wrote:
Why not buy a used 70-200 for now, save for the 200 F2, and then sell the 70-200 when you've saved enough? If you buy the 70-200 used, there's a good chance you'll lose next to nothing and you'll have it to use in the mean time while you save.


exactly my thoughts




Dec 11, 2014 at 11:47 AM
sjms
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Buy a 70-200 now or save up for the 200 2.0 in a year


yes buy the 70-200 now and sell off that versatility later. i owned a 300/2.8 Nikon VR and replaced it with the Sigma 120-300/2.8 S. weighs more and does more. if all your going to do is straight up portrait work then i'd go the prime. but then you have it already. me i'm all over the place so i need the versatility.


Dec 11, 2014 at 12:00 PM
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