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Archive 2014 · Why would you buy a camera without (E/O)VF?

  
 
bvphotos
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Why would you buy a camera without (E/O)VF?


This is a question I've pondered for some time now. There are some very nice cameras out there without an EVF. But I can't see myself shooting without a viewfinder. Those of you who have and like VF-less cameras (like X-A1, A5100, EP5, etc.), what do you do in order to not miss needing a VF? How do you shoot in bright daylight or in low light where holding the camera steady at arm's length becomes very difficult (at least for me)?


Dec 03, 2014 at 02:05 PM
edwardkaraa
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Why would you buy a camera without (E/O)VF?


I know I wouldn't, unless it's a LF view camera.


Dec 03, 2014 at 02:47 PM
Fred Amico
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Why would you buy a camera without (E/O)VF?


Bought a NEX-5N awhile back for the image quality, but soon discovered I really don't like shooting w/o a viewfinder. For me, it is pretty much unusable in outdoor bright light. Yes, I know I can buy the add-on finder, but really don't want to spend the money right now.

I'll stick with my other cameras that have a real viewfinder for most of my picture taking.



Dec 03, 2014 at 03:06 PM
corndog
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Why would you buy a camera without (E/O)VF?


I haven't seen a situation where bright daylight renders the lcd worthless. You can usually spot a reference point that helps you, even when mostly washed out. I never used them at arms length, usually about a foot in front of my face. Have you tried it? If you want to make it work, you can easily make it work. If you want to find fault and deem it unusable, you can do that too.


Dec 03, 2014 at 03:13 PM
BbICEP
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Why would you buy a camera without (E/O)VF?


I found any kind of eye level viefinder to be unusable for the most part of my shooting: I mostly use widish angles and these are critical for choice of POV. Eye levelshooting is as suitable for POV variation camera as arms length approach for telephoto.

Edited on Dec 04, 2014 at 02:44 AM · View previous versions



Dec 03, 2014 at 03:28 PM
kwalsh
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Why would you buy a camera without (E/O)VF?


I have both kinds of cameras. Really I find the EVF only of particularly strong aid when shooting telephoto. For other focal lengths it is actually kind of constraining and leads to the trap of boring eye level compositions if you aren't careful. I get much better compositions holding the camera in positions not conducive to EVF use in the first place. Obviously the addition of an EVF does not require you to use it all the time though! It is just another tool that can be useful sometimes - especially telephoto.

The main reason I'm happy with a camera without EVF is that the camera is smaller without it. That is less of an issue these days, but still given the choice between the GM1 with a built in tiltable flash decent for fill or even bounce in close quarters compared to the GM5 with no flash and a squished LCD to make room for an EVF the choice for me is the GM1 every time.

As to the sun issue I guess I just don't come up against that problem at all. It is so rare to be standing in full sunlight taking a picture I consider worthwhile enough to even take the camera out of the bag. And in the rare cases it does I can see plenty enough on the LCD to compose. I rarely view the world or the scene through LCD/EVF and only need a coarse display to properly frame - I'm examining the scene, action and compositional elements with my eye and not through a VF. Again, the exception here being telephoto. Also a bit of an exception for UWA where it is difficult to interpret the extreme projection distortion of a rectilinear lens with just your eye.

Anyway, love EVFs as a tool as long as they don't increase size or remove or diminish other camera features by their presence. Less a fan of cramming them on to already small cameras. Too compromised in my opinion, I'd rather do without in those cases.



Dec 03, 2014 at 03:35 PM
sebboh
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Why would you buy a camera without (E/O)VF?


size reduction is a good reason. if you prefered waist level shooting on medium format cameras to eye level finders the flip up screen of the a5000 and similar cameras is a fantastic improvement (none of that pesky direction reversal). I've never had trouble seeing the screen in bright sunlight btw.


Dec 03, 2014 at 03:46 PM
runamuck
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Why would you buy a camera without (E/O)VF?


When superstorm Sandy was blowing 60 knot winds down Lake Michigan I went out to shoot waves at the Michigan City lighthouse. Of course, there was a guy with his point and shoot held out at arms' length taking pix. I often wondered what sort of photos he got. My 40 pound Dynatran tripod was steady, but I couldn't imagine trying to hand hold a camera to use the viewfinder, let alone at arms' length. Yes. those are seagulls flying around. Crazy birds!
Edit to corrfect EXIF: ISO 400, f6.3 1/1000 on a D300. For some reason this site keeps making garbage of Exif.






Edited on Dec 03, 2014 at 03:57 PM · View previous versions



Dec 03, 2014 at 03:49 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Why would you buy a camera without (E/O)VF?


I really like finders, but I have both a Sony RX100 and Canon S100 that don't have finders, because they don't have room for finders.

In special circumstances, I might buy a set of DP Merrill cameras that also don't have finders - like a trip on the Trans Siberian Express. They'd be pretty mundane looking compared with a DSLR or mirrorless camera, especially if you only ever took out one at a time.



Dec 03, 2014 at 03:52 PM
Spyro P.
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Why would you buy a camera without (E/O)VF?


No, although I wouldnt mind a nice pocketable one. But I shoot outdoors and it is australia, when it gets sunny I cant even see the colours on the LCD.


Dec 03, 2014 at 04:07 PM
darrellc
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Why would you buy a camera without (E/O)VF?


My suggestion to adapt to an EVF-less camera is to shoot one exclusively, or primarily.

If I shoot a camera without a viewfinder for a while (I have an RX1 and GM1) I get used to it and it is fine except for certain rare circumstances (like shooting while on a glacier in sunlight). But when I've been shooting with a viewfinder or a mix of viewfinder and viewfinderless cameras, I do miss the viewfinder. Plus I'm getting to the point where I'm going to need reading glasses soon, so I occassionally have minor challenges reading or doing fine focus adjustments on an LCD unless I extend my arms a bit.

Going forward, I'm planning on buying only cameras with viewfinders, so I'm glad to see the GM5 and RX100 v3, which suggests camera companies are seeing demand for viewfinders on premium compacts. Sure hope the RX2 comes out and has a popup or integrated viewfinder.



Dec 03, 2014 at 04:07 PM
curious80
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Why would you buy a camera without (E/O)VF?


bvphotos wrote:
This is a question I've pondered for some time now. There are some very nice cameras out there without an EVF. But I can't see myself shooting without a viewfinder. Those of you who have and like VF-less cameras (like X-A1, A5100, EP5, etc.), what do you do in order to not miss needing a VF? How do you shoot in bright daylight or in low light where holding the camera steady at arm's length becomes very difficult (at least for me)?


While I was an early EVF adopter, I have gradually started preferring the LCD over EVF. Today I rarely use the EVF on my A6000. To me the ability to have a direct eye contact with the subject instead of hiding behind the camera, is very useful. And so is the ability to see "outside the frame". This is specially useful for longer FLs where your field of view through the lens becomes pretty narrow. For video it is even better.

Unless I am in direct mid-day sunlight, I have not found the LCD view-ability to be an issue in broad daylight.

Similarly I don't get the notion of why an LCD camera needs to be held at an arm's length. I hold my mirrorless cameras pretty much the same way as my DSLRs with my elbows tucked into my body for support and have not seen any evidence in my shooting to suggest that I get any more blur in my shots with the A6000 than my D7000.

What all of that means is that I am more than willing to sacrifice the EVF to gain smaller size and lower cost. In case of A6000 I would prefer if they allocated that real space to a larger LCD instead of the tiny LCDs they include in their APS-C NEX's.





Edited on Dec 03, 2014 at 04:14 PM · View previous versions



Dec 03, 2014 at 04:12 PM
chez
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Why would you buy a camera without (E/O)VF?


My landscape photography is shot using live view off of s tripod. That works great for me...but for all other types of photography, I need a viewfinder. Looking through the viewfinder allows me to isolate myself into what is being viewed in my camera. It let's me visualize and concentrate without distractions. Holding the camera away from my face just opens up all other distractions around me which for me leads to loss of vision.


Dec 03, 2014 at 04:13 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Why would you buy a camera without (E/O)VF?


Harry, I feel exactly the same about LiveView and finders as you do. OTOH, if it comes down to taking an RX100 or nothing, I'll take the RX100.


Dec 03, 2014 at 04:25 PM
bvphotos
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Why would you buy a camera without (E/O)VF?


curious80 wrote:
Similarly I don't get the notion of why an LCD camera needs to be held at an arm's length. I hold my mirrorless cameras pretty much the same way as my DSLRs with my elbows tucked into my body for support and have not seen any evidence in my shooting to suggest that I get any more blur in my shots with the A6000 than my D7000.



Since a couple of you have wondered why 'arm's length', some of us, as we age, need to hold reading/viewing material farther away. Arm's length may be an exaggeration in my case, but it's certainly far enough away from my eyes that holding steady becomes problematic in low light conditions.



Dec 03, 2014 at 04:34 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Why would you buy a camera without (E/O)VF?


You could get a decent pair of reading glasses, or a small tripod, or both.


Dec 03, 2014 at 04:42 PM
chez
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Why would you buy a camera without (E/O)VF?


jcolwell wrote:
Harry, I feel exactly the same about LiveView and finders as you do. OTOH, if it comes down to taking an RX100 or nothing, I'll take the RX100.


Yeh, I once borrowed an EOS-M and if there is no other choice, shooting viewfinderless works in a pinch. Can't say I enjoyed the experience though.



Dec 03, 2014 at 04:47 PM
TMaG82
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Why would you buy a camera without (E/O)VF?


Right now I'm shooting only with an EOS M2, no DSLR and I'm finding it perfectly fine for what I need. Of course I won't stay like this forever but in the cold of winter I don't shoot nearly enough to be disappointed by the lack of a finder.


Dec 03, 2014 at 05:07 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Why would you buy a camera without (E/O)VF?


On my Fuji X-A1, I have found the articulating LCD screen very easy and steady to use at waist level in bright sunlight. Since that's how I shot all my film cameras (TLR's and Blads with waist level finder), it's natural for me to shoot that way. Wish I could say the same for my Sony A7r which has about the worst rear LCD screen I have used outside in bright light. Seems Sony has upgraded the A7II with a "White Magic" LCD screen to address this issue. I also have a Ricoh GR which I often shoot with an accessory optical finder. My preference is to have the option of both an articulating LCD screen and an eye-level option but there is almost always some other feature of a camera that's ultimately more important to me rather than whether the camera has the exact finder option I desire (sensor, size, user interface, rendering, etc.).


Dec 03, 2014 at 06:30 PM
AhamB
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Why would you buy a camera without (E/O)VF?


Tariq Gibran wrote:
On my Fuji X-A1, I have found the articulating LCD screen very easy and steady to use at waist level in bright sunlight. Since that's how I shot all my film cameras (TLR's and Blads with waist level finder), it's natural for me to shoot that way.


Same for me with my RX100m2 -- I pretty much always tilt the screen up because it's very effective to prevent glare and is more comfortable to hold (and less conspicous as well when doing candid shots). I think I'll miss it on my GR. :/



Dec 03, 2014 at 06:36 PM
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