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Archive 2014 · Which small camera? (large sensor compact or mirrorless)

  
 
AhamB
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Which small camera? (large sensor compact or mirrorless)


Hey everyone,

I just bought an RX100 II and while it's nice and small, I'm not really convinced by the lens, at least not for my uses, and the operation is a bit too clunky for me. I could give up a bit of compactness for something that would suit fulfills my wishes better.

What I care about:
- good landscape performance (good detail across the frame)
- good DR (shouldn't be a problem with any sensor > 1" I guess)
- decent handling (the RX100 is a bit painful to use)
Not so important:
- wide apertures
- fast AF (landscapes...)
Bonus:
- a good panorama sweep function. The function in the RX100 seems decent, but does generate some artifacts. My iPad Air does much better in fact.

Budget: to be determined, but I wasn't planning to spend much more than $600~700.

At this point I'm considering these alternatives:

Ricoh GR
Should offer best corner to corner sharpness of large sensor compacts from what I've heard. The rendering of the lens looks amazing to me, also for close-ups. From what I read, operation seems to be quite nice although I read some complaints about the AF (I never need quick AF though).

Panasonic GM1 with 12-32 pancake or perhaps 20/1.7 or 14/2.5.
Small enough for me. From what I read the operation seems to be quite nice and responsive. Great video quality too and having the option to change (small) lenses is nice too. I'm just not sure that there is any affordable m4/3 lens in the 28-35 mm equivalent range that comes close to the lens of the Ricoh GR. The Panny 14/2.5 looks pretty good but it has a fair bit of CA. Even though that might clean up well in PP, it still reduces sharpness.


I might settle for something slightly bigger and give up the semi-pocketability, but I guess I'll be limited to m4/3, or perhaps something like a Fuji X-A1 (although then I'd give up video quality again).

Any comments, recommendations, suggestions are appreciated.

Edited on Nov 20, 2014 at 09:23 PM · View previous versions



Nov 20, 2014 at 07:02 PM
CalW
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Which small camera? (large sensor compact or mirrorless)


RX1


Nov 20, 2014 at 07:22 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Which small camera? (large sensor compact or mirrorless)


With the GM1 you could consider the Panny-Leica 15 f/1.7. I think used it isn't that expensive and supposedly has much better across the frame sharpness than the other lenses in this range.


Nov 20, 2014 at 07:30 PM
AhamB
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Which small camera? (large sensor compact or mirrorless)


Ah, I had forgotten about that 15/1.7. I like the focal length. Will have a look at it.
Edit: How about the Olympus M.Zuiko 17mm f1.8? Does it perform comparably?



Nov 20, 2014 at 07:41 PM
Jman13
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Which small camera? (large sensor compact or mirrorless)


While there is some lens edge softness, the Panasonic LX100 is definitely worth a look. It's got good handling, a 4/3 sized sensor and a 24-75 equivalent f/1.7-2.8 lens with a good EVF.


Nov 20, 2014 at 08:19 PM
AhamB
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Which small camera? (large sensor compact or mirrorless)


I'm not really convinced by the LX100. Edge softness is the thing I don't want and that's why the Ricoh GR speaks to me -- the lens is as good as it gets and that's rare, especially at that price.


From what I'm reading about the Oly 17/1.8 it seems that it's not really that sharp but consistent across the frame (reminds me of the old OM 28/3.5), and not as sharp as the Panny 20/1.7.



Nov 20, 2014 at 08:31 PM
millsart
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Which small camera? (large sensor compact or mirrorless)


I second the RX1, I've owned them all (sometimes more than once) and really nothing can touch the RX1 when it comes to overall IQ and a pretty small size.

It doesn't have price going for it, but there are some great used deals, and the 35mm Sonnar paired with the 24meg FF sensor just gives amazing DR and across the frame sharpness.

I've never used such a good 35mm lens for any system as that 35/2 Sonnar in fact.



Nov 20, 2014 at 08:47 PM
millsart
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Which small camera? (large sensor compact or mirrorless)


AhamB wrote:
I'm not really convinced by the LX100. Edge softness is the thing I don't want and that's why the Ricoh GR speaks to me -- the lens is as good as it gets and that's rare, especially at that price.

From what I'm reading about the Oly 17/1.8 it seems that it's not really that sharp but consistent across the frame (reminds me of the old OM 28/3.5), and not as sharp as the Panny 20/1.7.


It focuses much faster than the 20/1.7 though, tradeoffs...tradeoffs....



Nov 20, 2014 at 08:51 PM
rscheffler
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Which small camera? (large sensor compact or mirrorless)


AhamB wrote:
I'm not really convinced by the LX100. Edge softness is the thing I don't want and that's why the Ricoh GR speaks to me -- the lens is as good as it gets and that's rare, especially at that price.

From what I'm reading about the Oly 17/1.8 it seems that it's not really that sharp but consistent across the frame (reminds me of the old OM 28/3.5), and not as sharp as the Panny 20/1.7.


I just spent a bit of time looking at the DPR LX100 'real world' landscape/cityscape comparison scene at all focal lengths and aperture values vs. the RX100 III and I'd say it is the better option at 35mm and longer. At the wide end stopping down a couple stops helps a fair amount.

But I agree... 35 Sonnar in the RX1 is really amazing and probably the best ~35mm lens I've used, though the new ZM35/1.4 may be very, very competitive with it. Biggest hurdle with the RX1 is the price, considering the GR is a fraction of it, even new.

I'm also curious about the GM5 but so far have not found any wide angle examples that impressed me across the frame. Good enough for many applications? Certainly. But not necessarily exemplary.



Nov 20, 2014 at 08:58 PM
Jman13
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Which small camera? (large sensor compact or mirrorless)


AhamB wrote:
I'm not really convinced by the LX100. Edge softness is the thing I don't want and that's why the Ricoh GR speaks to me -- the lens is as good as it gets and that's rare, especially at that price.

From what I'm reading about the Oly 17/1.8 it seems that it's not really that sharp but consistent across the frame (reminds me of the old OM 28/3.5), and not as sharp as the Panny 20/1.7.


If cross frame sharpness is paramount, the LX100 won't fit the bill (though I'm finding I really, really enjoy shooting with it. More than the majority of fixed lens compacts I've used.) It's quite nice for a quick versatile grab and go, and while it's not great at cross frame sharpness, the lens is pretty good..but it doesn't sound like it's up to what you're after.

The Oly 17/1.8 is a very good lens for closer work, like environmental portraiture, etc. It's not anything special for work near infinity.





Nov 20, 2014 at 09:19 PM
AhamB
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Which small camera? (large sensor compact or mirrorless)


The LX100 sounds like fun, but indeed not really what I'm looking for.

I'd love to have an RX1 but it's a bit too pricey for me at this point. I'd need to sell a few lenses to finance it.

It looks like the Panaleica 15/1.7 is sharp enough for my needs, but it costs about as much as a GM1+12-32mm kit, and a GM1 body isn't really cheaper than the kit... (and no GM1s to be found in B&S either)
Still contemplating the Ricoh GR...

Edited on Nov 21, 2014 at 08:58 PM · View previous versions



Nov 20, 2014 at 11:46 PM
taemo
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Which small camera? (large sensor compact or mirrorless)


the GR is awesome for landscape, it's small and who cares about AF when it has snap mode.

my only issue with it flares easily
R0030398 by earl.dieta, on Flickr



Nov 20, 2014 at 11:59 PM
CalW
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Which small camera? (large sensor compact or mirrorless)


Earl, if that is the worst flare sample you can come up with, I'd say that at the price the GR is a good bet for Benjamin if he can't fund an RX1 I've come close to getting one myself, actually, but -- too many cameras...


Nov 21, 2014 at 07:50 PM
AhamB
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Which small camera? (large sensor compact or mirrorless)


Not everyone is complaining about the GR flaring: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1217487/61#12476822

I may settle on that camera for now -- it really seems like something special that's not easy to match at that price.



Nov 21, 2014 at 08:59 PM
Daniel Smith
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Which small camera? (large sensor compact or mirrorless)


If you don't like the new Panasonic LX100 take a good look at the Fuji X-E1 with 18-55mm lens.


Nov 21, 2014 at 09:07 PM
dannat
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Which small camera? (large sensor compact or mirrorless)


do u want evf? the sony a5000 can be had pretty cheap & is much smaller than a6000 [but shares a no of its features}


Nov 21, 2014 at 09:15 PM
AhamB
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Which small camera? (large sensor compact or mirrorless)


Are there any small 28-35 mm E-mount or X-mount lenses though? I think nothing comes close to the Panasonic 15/1.7. There's the Sony 16/2.8 which is rather underwhelming and the 20/2.8 pancake, but I haven't heard anything about the performance of that lens.


Nov 21, 2014 at 11:39 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Which small camera? (large sensor compact or mirrorless)


AhamB wrote:
Are there any small 28-35 mm E-mount or X-mount lenses though?


The Fujinon XF 27/2.8 R is small.




Nov 22, 2014 at 12:01 AM
brett maxwell
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Which small camera? (large sensor compact or mirrorless)


the GM1 is fantastic. I have it with the 12-32, 20/1.7, and 45/1.8 as my small kit, and I leave my FX Nikon gear behind more and more.

the 12-32 is fantastic, if you're okay with the smaller aperture. the 14, 20, and 45 are great also. There's also a 12mm f2 and Leica branded 15/1.7 (24 and 30mm equivalents), I haven't used either, but both are supposed to be great.

if you like an EVF, check the coming GM5.



Nov 22, 2014 at 12:11 AM
freaklikeme
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Which small camera? (large sensor compact or mirrorless)


I think your instincts are right about the GR. Great lens, good sized sensor, decent converters available if they interest you, Ricoh's best-ever ergonomics and their typical no-nonsense user-interface. I'd go with it first and see if you feel you need anything else before diving in on an interchangeable solution.


Nov 22, 2014 at 12:22 AM
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