Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Sony Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              7      
8
       9              15       16       end
  

Archive 2014 · Official: A7 II full-frame camera with 5-axis IS

  
 
Charlie N
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.8 #1 · p.8 #1 · Official: A7 II full-frame camera with 5-axis IS


johnctharp wrote:

The hope here would be to keep the rotational stabilization that Sony has built into their latest IBIS setup while not stabilizing the axises so as to not fight the possibly better optimized OIS available on certain third-party lenses in the same way that Sony does with first-party lenses.

Canon's IS tends to be the best OIS on the market- while Olympus' IBIS may be better than their own OIS implementations, or Sony's than their own OSS, IBIS in general stands as an excellent though imperfect solution next to lenses that have top-shelf OIS implementations that have been customized for the
...Show more
Quite frankly, I dont care for the best stabilization, give me 1+ stops and I'm happy. If I can shoot 1/FL reliably, I'm happy. This is something that I've wanted for a VERY long time, since I began photography a decade ago, and sony is providing it. There's no such thing as a perfect solution, even long lenses dont have perfect solutions.

Now they just need to release an A7r with IBIS and no shutter lag. I'm pretty happy as is with what I've got, but the shutter lag is a bit annoying. A better way to move the af selection is also needed.



Nov 21, 2014 at 06:53 PM
jhinkey
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.8 #2 · p.8 #2 · Official: A7 II full-frame camera with 5-axis IS


Charlie N wrote:
Quite frankly, I dont care for the best stabilization, give me 1+ stops and I'm happy. If I can shoot 1/FL reliably, I'm happy. This is something that I've wanted for a VERY long time, since I began photography a decade ago, and sony is providing it. There's no such thing as a perfect solution, even long lenses dont have perfect solutions.

Now they just need to release an A7r with IBIS and no shutter lag. I'm pretty happy as is with what I've got, but the shutter lag is a bit annoying. A better way to move the af
...Show more

Yep, an A7RII would be killer with:
- IBIS (stills and video)
- Much less noisy shutter
- Improved UI
- Improved shutter lag (noticeable for me, but not a big problem)
- Better button layout (seems the A7II is moving in that direction already)
- True wired tethering (current implementation is half-baked)
- The same sensor cover glass that doesn't produce unsightly reflections (i.e., don't change it)
- Better micro-lenses for wide angles (speaking of this - anyone heard that this has been improved in the A7II?)


Edited on Nov 21, 2014 at 11:42 PM · View previous versions



Nov 21, 2014 at 07:17 PM
rattymouse
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.8 #3 · p.8 #3 · Official: A7 II full-frame camera with 5-axis IS


mogul wrote:
Sony builds international models and a Japanese one; the international have every language built into them whereas the Japanese model is locked.


A real idiotic move by Sony. Often when I am in Japan I consider buying Sony cameras. I'd certainly own an RX1 now if the camera were international.

Real good move there Sony.




Nov 21, 2014 at 10:46 PM
grahamb3
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.8 #4 · p.8 #4 · Official: A7 II full-frame camera with 5-axis IS


johnctharp wrote:

The hope here would be to keep the rotational stabilization that Sony has built into their latest IBIS setup while not stabilizing the axises so as to not fight the possibly better optimized OIS available on certain third-party lenses in the same way that Sony does with first-party lenses.

Canon's IS tends to be the best OIS on the market- while Olympus' IBIS may be better than their own OIS implementations, or Sony's than their own OSS, IBIS in general stands as an excellent though imperfect solution next to lenses that have top-shelf OIS implementations that have been customized for the
...Show more

As the saying goes, one is entitled to one's own opinion, but not one's own facts.

If you have citations for your conclusions, please post the links. Otherwise, shilling for Canon on a Sony forum is considered bad form.

I shot Canon for almost 10 years. The T70 and T90 were 2 of the best cameras I've had the pleasure of using. Since I don't shoot Canon any longer, I don't post to the Canon forum. I wonder why Canon shooters can't say the same?




Nov 21, 2014 at 10:49 PM
Steve Spencer
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.8 #5 · p.8 #5 · Official: A7 II full-frame camera with 5-axis IS


johnctharp wrote:

The hope here would be to keep the rotational stabilization that Sony has built into their latest IBIS setup while not stabilizing the axises so as to not fight the possibly better optimized OIS available on certain third-party lenses in the same way that Sony does with first-party lenses.

Canon's IS tends to be the best OIS on the market- while Olympus' IBIS may be better than their own OIS implementations, or Sony's than their own OSS, IBIS in general stands as an excellent though imperfect solution next to lenses that have top-shelf OIS implementations that have been customized for the
...Show more

I don't expect Sony to make it easier to use third party lenses, so it will be up to people like metabones to figure out how Sony keeps part of the IBIS on and shuts off the other part and incorporate that ability into the adapter. That is a tall order. It might happen, but I think it is more likely that you will either have to shut off IBIS or lens based IS when using third party lenses. And I'm not at all sure that the IS in Canon's 100L beats the IBIS from an Oly OM-D with something like their 60 f/2.8 macro. The Oly lens on the Oly camera is very well stabilized. I have seen no tests comparing the two and I would not be surprised to see that in some ways the Oly is better stabilized. The Oly IBIS is that good.



Nov 21, 2014 at 11:24 PM
Jorgen Udvang
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.8 #6 · p.8 #6 · Official: A7 II full-frame camera with 5-axis IS


johnctharp wrote:
Mirrorless *is* the 'next stage', but there's plenty of technology yet to get figured out, as seen in the shortcomings in even the best of mirrorless cameras. Battery life, sensor readout, processing power (and it's affect on battery life), at a minimum need to be further developed. Hell, while Samsung may not be the most solid of vendors (yet), the NX1 is definitely a step in the right direction. I'm looking forward to seeing it's continuous AF compared to the A6000.


Having used mirrorless (m4/3) for almost 5 years together with my Nikons, I can only say I agree with you. There are issues, lots of them, and it doesn't help pretending that they don't exist. I also agree that Samsung is probably on to something. The size of their new lenses indicate that they don't need much correction in software which is good. I have been tearing out the little hair I have left over images gone soft for no apparent reason other than lack of cooperation between software and optics.



Nov 22, 2014 at 12:05 AM
Big Cheese
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.8 #7 · p.8 #7 · Official: A7 II full-frame camera with 5-axis IS


Canon's IS tends to be the best OIS on the market- while Olympus' IBIS may be better than their own OIS implementations, or Sony's than their own OSS, IBIS in general stands as an excellent though imperfect solution next to lenses that have top-shelf OIS implementations that have been customized for the...

Spoken truly like someone who hasn't use Olympus' IBIS. I have used Olympus, Canon and Fuji and Oly's 5 axis IBIS is in another league compared to Canon's. An that goes for a 600 mm effective focal length all the way to wide angles. And suppose you bought Canon's 100-400 last year. Your stuck with two stops of stabilisation until you upgrade.


Nov 22, 2014 at 06:04 AM
Jman13
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.8 #8 · p.8 #8 · Official: A7 II full-frame camera with 5-axis IS


The only lenses with OIS that I've used that are as good as Oly's IBIS are the Canon 70-200/2.8 II and the Fuji 55-200 and 18-135. Only the Fuji's were possibly 'better'. In any case, the best OIS systems are only on par or have a VERY small advantage over their IBIS. And for macro work, I've seen nothing like it (and I owned and loved the Canon 100L Macro).
Big Cheese wrote:
Canon's IS tends to be the best OIS on the market- while Olympus' IBIS may be better than their own OIS implementations, or Sony's than their own OSS, IBIS in general stands as an excellent though imperfect solution next to lenses that have top-shelf OIS implementations that have been customized for the...


Spoken truly like someone who hasn't use Olympus' IBIS. I have used Olympus, Canon and Fuji and Oly's 5 axis IBIS is in another league compared to Canon's. An that goes for a 600 mm effective focal length all the way to wide angles. And suppose you bought
...Show more



Nov 22, 2014 at 07:26 AM
Atlasman2
Online
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.8 #9 · p.8 #9 · Official: A7 II full-frame camera with 5-axis IS


Big Cheese wrote:
Canon's IS tends to be the best OIS on the market- while Olympus' IBIS may be better than their own OIS implementations, or Sony's than their own OSS, IBIS in general stands as an excellent though imperfect solution next to lenses that have top-shelf OIS implementations that have been customized for the...


Spoken truly like someone who hasn't use Olympus' IBIS. I have used Olympus, Canon and Fuji and Oly's 5 axis IBIS is in another league compared to Canon's. An that goes for a 600 mm effective focal length all the way to wide angles. And suppose you bought
...Show more

I totally agree.

I experierenced the effectiveness of Olympus' IBIS from their first release on the E-510. Even that implementation was outstanding and rivaled any OIS of its time.

I'm a big fan of IBIS and I'm glad Sony has finally come around to include it on their full-frame mirrorless. I believe that lenses will sustain greater value over time when the camera has the stabilization.

From the footage that Sony has released demonstrating their IBIS, I may sell my A7 and replace it with the A7II.


Nov 22, 2014 at 08:56 AM
RobCD
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.8 #10 · p.8 #10 · Official: A7 II full-frame camera with 5-axis IS


johnctharp wrote:
Mirrorless *is* the 'next stage', but there's plenty of technology yet to get figured out, as seen in the shortcomings in even the best of mirrorless cameras. Battery life, sensor readout, processing power (and it's affect on battery life), at a minimum need to be further developed. Hell, while Samsung may not be the most solid of vendors (yet), the NX1 is definitely a step in the right direction. I'm looking forward to seeing it's continuous AF compared to the A6000.


This is true when you're considering mirrorless as a complete replacement to DSLRs with the goal of having all of the benefits of mirrorless AND mirrorless being equal or better in areas that are currently a strength of DSLRs like battery life and AF. But I think what is missing in your comments is the fact that both DSLRs and mirrorless have shortcomings. Your comments seem to imply that DSLRs do everything that mirrorless systems do and more when in reality they each have strengths and weaknesses. In terms of mirrorless being the next stage well that has already happened. In terms of mirrorless replacing DSLRs because they do everything as good or better, we have a ways to go.



Nov 22, 2014 at 09:28 AM
Lee Saxon
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.8 #11 · p.8 #11 · Official: A7 II full-frame camera with 5-axis IS


Lee Saxon wrote:
At least Sony and others are trying to figure out what the next evolutionary stage is for cameras.


johnctharp wrote:
Mirrorless *is* the 'next stage', but there's plenty of technology yet to get figured out, as seen in the shortcomings in even the best of mirrorless cameras. Battery life, sensor readout, processing power (and it's affect on battery life), at a minimum need to be further developed.


Agreed, that's what I was saying.



Nov 22, 2014 at 02:22 PM
johnctharp
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.8 #12 · p.8 #12 · Official: A7 II full-frame camera with 5-axis IS


grahamb3 wrote:
...Otherwise, shilling for Canon on a Sony forum is considered bad form...I don't post to the Canon forum. I wonder why Canon shooters can't say the same?


I've been following Sony's photography line for years; the a55 was nearly my first camera, and I've watched with interest as Sony has pushed the limits of sensors, reduced the size of large-sensor ILCs, and continued to innovate in various ways. That's why I'm here.

I used Canon as an example above due to their proficiency with optical image stabilization, which is an area where Canon continues to innovate and stay ahead of the crowd, in the context of customizing Sony's new 5-axis stabilization in order to get 'the best of both worlds'. But I even went so far as to mention other companies that have also made recent OIS strides. What's your problem with that?



Nov 22, 2014 at 04:00 PM
johnctharp
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.8 #13 · p.8 #13 · Official: A7 II full-frame camera with 5-axis IS


Jman13 wrote:
The only lenses with OIS that I've used that are as good as Oly's IBIS are the Canon 70-200/2.8 II and the Fuji 55-200 and 18-135. Only the Fuji's were possibly 'better'. In any case, the best OIS systems are only on par or have a VERY small advantage over their IBIS. And for macro work, I've seen nothing like it (and I owned and loved the Canon 100L Macro).


Thanks for sharing your experience Jordan- assuming that Sony's FF IBIS is as good as Oly's MFT implementation, it would seem that most would be best switching third-party OIS off and just using the IBIS.

RobCD wrote:
Your comments seem to imply that DSLRs do everything that mirrorless systems do and more when in reality they each have strengths and weaknesses. In terms of mirrorless being the next stage well that has already happened. In terms of mirrorless replacing DSLRs because they do everything as good or better, we have a ways to go.


I agree that DSLRs have their shortcomings compared to mirrorless, and should have included that perspective in my comments above; hell, I have personal experience using Canon's EOS-M with the 'touch shutter' that espouses a number of mirrorless advantages at the same time, and that camera otherwise focuses slowly and lacks an EVF altogether .

My perspective is generally that mirrorless cameras will evolve to erase all of the advantages of DSLRs in due time.



Nov 22, 2014 at 04:11 PM
swordfishphoto
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.8 #14 · p.8 #14 · Official: A7 II full-frame camera with 5-axis IS


mogul wrote:
Of course they are weather sealed


Weird. I did a couple searches and it said it wasn't, along with the rest of the A7 lineup. But this article I just read says it is.



Nov 22, 2014 at 07:35 PM
joychris
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.8 #15 · p.8 #15 · Official: A7 II full-frame camera with 5-axis IS


Jman13 wrote:
The only lenses with OIS that I've used that are as good as Oly's IBIS are the Canon 70-200/2.8 II and the Fuji 55-200 and 18-135. Only the Fuji's were possibly 'better'. In any case, the best OIS systems are only on par or have a VERY small advantage over their IBIS. And for macro work, I've seen nothing like it (and I owned and loved the Canon 100L Macro).


+1

Oly's 5-axis is the best overall stabilization I've ever used, I found it to be more effective than any lens based solution except for maybe the 70-200L II. Looking forward to testing Sony's version.



Nov 22, 2014 at 08:01 PM
kosmoskatten
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.8 #16 · p.8 #16 · Official: A7 II full-frame camera with 5-axis IS


Did anyone have any info on whether the Auto-ISO issue has been fixed?

I am guessing that if you can dial in your focal length, Auto-ISO would adjust accordingly. I would have hoped to have minimum shutterspeed selectable in any case.




Nov 23, 2014 at 02:41 PM
TheEmrys
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.8 #17 · p.8 #17 · Official: A7 II full-frame camera with 5-axis IS


There is no auto-ISO issue. You just want a new feature. There is a difference.


Nov 23, 2014 at 05:19 PM
Lee Saxon
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.8 #18 · p.8 #18 · Official: A7 II full-frame camera with 5-axis IS


So it seems that all the ergonomic improvements Sony has made with this camera are 100% the result of customer feedback and they still refuse to have real photographers test their prototypes:

Rearranging the left-side ports to be side by side appears to have made them so broad that a portrait-orientation arca-swiss clamp (ie, an L-plate) is impossible. That's maybe an even dumber mistake than any of the dumb A7 mistakes this camera fixes.



Nov 23, 2014 at 05:43 PM
carstenw
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.8 #19 · p.8 #19 · Official: A7 II full-frame camera with 5-axis IS


TheEmrys wrote:
There is no auto-ISO issue. You just want a new feature. There is a difference.


There is an issue: you cannot set minimum shutter speed for the Auto-ISO implementation. That makes it useless for many lenses. Moving to M mode (and other pseudo-workarounds) has its own problems, and isn't a good replacement.



Nov 23, 2014 at 06:55 PM
TheEmrys
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.8 #20 · p.8 #20 · Official: A7 II full-frame camera with 5-axis IS


So are you arguing that Sony has implemented it and it is not functional? That is an issue. The absence of a feature, is simply a (to some) a poor choice. To date, no Sony camera has ever included this feature.

An issue would be the sensor reflections that occur when shooting long exposures at night on strong light sources. This is a true issue.



Nov 23, 2014 at 08:00 PM
1       2       3              7      
8
       9              15       16       end




FM Forums | Sony Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              7      
8
       9              15       16       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.