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Archive 2014 · Pocketable FF landscape cam. I can dream can't I?

  
 
trale
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Pocketable FF landscape cam. I can dream can't I?


Just want to throw this idea out there, like to see if there might be any hope for it to be realized. Looking at the likes of Sony RX1, RX1r, A7, A7r, and A7s, it certainly seems like Sony doesn't shy away from building some rather specialized FF cameras. RX1/RX1r for street shooting, A7 is liked by many landscapers. And they certainly have a knack for making these bodies smaller and better than any one else. So I'm wondering if they can make a fixed-lens camera for landscapers about the size of a RX1 (so it may be jacket-pocketable), something with the following specs:

  1. Fixed 18mm super-wide Zeiss lens
  2. F/4.0 (no need for big apertures for landscape)
  3. Small as RX1 or smaller (use rumored curve sensor to minimize bulk)
  4. 36MP full-frame sensor (the more the merrier for landscape)
  5. Built in EVF (a-la RX100m3)
  6. Articulating touch screen
  7. Built-in cable-release insert on shutter button (like RX10)
  8. Built-in intervalometer (for landscape timelapses)
  9. Built-in 10-stop ND Filter (might as well go big, if I'm dreaming)
  10. Built-in focus-stacking feature

Would such a camera be technically achievable?



Nov 13, 2014 at 01:33 AM
pdmphoto
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Pocketable FF landscape cam. I can dream can't I?


Before anyone would consider building it, they would ask if sales would support it. My guess is not. Sales are the great motivator. Sony was brave to come out with a 35/2 version. It would have been nice to see a wider lens on the same camera with more of the features you listed, but I don't think that is very likely.


Nov 13, 2014 at 01:40 AM
scottam10
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Pocketable FF landscape cam. I can dream can't I?


I see where you're coming from, but I don't see a big enough market for a super-wide fixed-lens camera that's only f/4. It would only suit a very specialised niche.

If you're limited to a single prime lens, at least give it a fast aperture to give it some appeal to low light shooters etc.



Nov 13, 2014 at 01:52 AM
Dergiman
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Pocketable FF landscape cam. I can dream can't I?


IMHO a super wide fixed lens camera would sell quite well. Sony can only win by filling niches by offering specialized cameras. There is no small camera with a wide-angle lens (i donīt count the action cams like GoPro) at all. The Hasselblad SWC was even more special as it was a medium format camera and it sold good enough to be offered in different versions.


Nov 13, 2014 at 02:04 AM
rattymouse
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Pocketable FF landscape cam. I can dream can't I?


Have you seen Zeiss' 18mm f/3.5 lens? does that look pocketable? Sure there are ways to make it a bit smaller, making it fixed, no mirror, f4 etc, . But no way is it going to drop in size so that it fits in your pocket.


Nov 13, 2014 at 02:13 AM
uhoh7
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Pocketable FF landscape cam. I can dream can't I?


pdmphoto wrote:
Before anyone would consider building it, they would ask if sales would support it. My guess is not. Sales are the great motivator. Sony was brave to come out with a 35/2 version. It would have been nice to see a wider lens on the same camera with more of the features you listed, but I don't think that is very likely.


Respectfully, I could not disagree more. That's what I heard for years about the idea of a "FF Nex" Oh, nobody will buy it. Yes the A7 was a flop, right?

What do you hear on the climbing and trekking forums.....what's the best tiny camera?

This was the whole idea behind the original Leica, without which there might never have been 35mm photography.

We already have all the tech needed.

Cram a FF sensor into a Nex-5 body, cut the fancy features, and more important cut the sensor cover to M8 thickness. Forget the fixed lens. Just put an E mount on there and let us have it.

We already know where to find great tiny lenses.


DSC00781 by unoh7, on Flickr

it's a digital reincarnation:


The first to do that well in full frame will make a fortune.

And I'd like to meet the marketing genius who decided "Nex" was not a good name anymore. One of the most iconic cameras ever made. Beautiful magnesium build that puts the A7 to shame. Even Drones love it. Especially drones love it .

Wake me when somebody manages to get a D810 off the ground remotely.



Nov 13, 2014 at 02:20 AM
trale
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Pocketable FF landscape cam. I can dream can't I?


rattymouse wrote:
Have you seen Zeiss' 18mm f/3.5 lens? does that look pocketable? Sure there are ways to make it a bit smaller, making it fixed, no mirror, f4 etc, . But no way is it going to drop in size so that it fits in your pocket.


That doesn't look too much bigger than a 35mm F/1.8, which the RX1 has. So actually, you've given me hope that such a camera is technically doable.

(note my criteria here is jacket-pocketable).



Nov 13, 2014 at 02:42 AM
pdmphoto
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Pocketable FF landscape cam. I can dream can't I?


rattymouse wrote:
Have you seen Zeiss' 18mm f/3.5 lens? does that look pocketable? Sure there are ways to make it a bit smaller, making it fixed, no mirror, f4 etc, . But no way is it going to drop in size so that it fits in your pocket.


That was my point. The OP was talking about a FF sensor and 18mm lens. Not an APS-C with a 21 (read 33mm). And history says that manufacturers don't believe there is a large enough market for a fixed camera with an 18mm (especially FF, but even equiv) lens. The widest angle fixed lens/focal length cameras over the last few years havent been any wider than 28mm. Maybe I'm missing a 24mm somewhere, but I don't recall anything wider



Nov 13, 2014 at 02:52 AM
Keith B.
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Pocketable FF landscape cam. I can dream can't I?


The designers could take an RX-1 body, put a small custom 18mm f/4 lens in it, and add an EVF(thereby increasing the size) and you'd have a largish coat-pocketable camera.


Nov 13, 2014 at 03:28 AM
banpreso
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Pocketable FF landscape cam. I can dream can't I?


buy a a7r, and a contax zeiss 18mm f4, and just have it in 2 different coat pockets problem solved! high 5!


Nov 13, 2014 at 03:58 AM
Paul Mo
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Pocketable FF landscape cam. I can dream can't I?


uhoh7 wrote:
cut the fancy features,


I could live with on/off, M mode and means to quickly set ISO, aperture and shutter speed.

Who needs P, A or S with these babies?



Nov 13, 2014 at 04:09 AM
SoulNibbler
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Pocketable FF landscape cam. I can dream can't I?


While we are begging...
please also make it a shift lens/sensor.



Nov 13, 2014 at 04:37 AM
alundeb
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Pocketable FF landscape cam. I can dream can't I?


SoulNibbler wrote:
While we are begging...
please also make it a shift lens/sensor.


In that case the lens needs a medium format imagce circle, and the sensor needs the movement space of a medium format sensor, so why not just make it a medium format camera.



Nov 13, 2014 at 04:45 AM
hauxon
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Pocketable FF landscape cam. I can dream can't I?


Well the Samyang 12mm f/2 on a NEX or Fuji body is awfully close to what you're asking for. Remember that 20mp resolution was not bad 2-3 years ago and for the rare occasion when it's not enough you can always stitch a 100mp pano. And if you want really tiny lens you can have the Sammy 8mm fish in your shirt pocket, or a pancake in your wallet.

Another option would be the Fuji GF670w "pocketable" wide angle (film) rangefinder. The regular GF670 has a foldable lens. I think it would be a great idea to make a camera like you are asking for with foldable lens. That way the lens could be constructed without compromises but would still be pocketable.



Nov 13, 2014 at 04:47 AM
Noodlz79
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Pocketable FF landscape cam. I can dream can't I?


The A6000 and Voigtlander 12mm f5.6 might be a pretty good option, very light and compact combo, you get 24mp which should be enough for landscapes, EVF, tiltable screen, more DOF due to APSC sensor, pocketable but mind the lens hood, more affordable than rx1 level prices and best of all the ability to interchange lenses. I've not tried it myself but it does seem like a versatile setup with the ability to extend other lens usage.


Nov 13, 2014 at 06:51 AM
uhoh7
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Pocketable FF landscape cam. I can dream can't I?


Paul Mo wrote:
I could live with on/off, M mode and means to quickly set ISO, aperture and shutter speed.

Who needs P, A or S with these babies?


Well, she does like that little "A".

image by unoh7, on Flickr



Nov 13, 2014 at 10:18 AM
galenapass
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Pocketable FF landscape cam. I can dream can't I?


why not the new DP1 quattro?


Nov 13, 2014 at 11:15 AM
WhyFi
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Pocketable FF landscape cam. I can dream can't I?


uhoh7 wrote:
Respectfully, I could not disagree more.
...
Forget the fixed lens. Just put an E mount on there and let us have it.


Respectfully, this is quite a large caveat for someone that could not disagree more. I agree with him/her that sales would not likely support the original premise of a compact FF camera with a fixed UWA.




Nov 13, 2014 at 11:36 AM
gnaztee
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Pocketable FF landscape cam. I can dream can't I?


I like the idea too, but think they wouldn't do it because it's too specialized. What about this? Design a handful of lenses for the RX1 like the 35/2 was (close to sensor, fixed to camera, etc.) and let people special order their RX1 with lens of choice. I know camera companies used to do this with specialized lenses, maybe they still do.

I'd want a 21/4 and a 85/2 (the Voigtlander wide and the Pentax M would be good size models I think).



Nov 13, 2014 at 11:42 AM
uhoh7
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Pocketable FF landscape cam. I can dream can't I?


WhyFi wrote:
Respectfully, this is quite a large caveat for someone that could not disagree more. I agree with him/her that sales would not likely support the original premise of a compact FF camera with a fixed UWA.


"pocketable", i.e. very compact FF is the theme, and as others have noted the RX1 actually has been made.

However, I take your point, and perhaps over-reacted to pdmphoto's sentiment, if the fixed lens aspect was a main reason why he thought the camera was not viable.

My apologies to him if that's the case.

I would not buy a fixed 18 myself But I do think others would. However the fortune is in a interchangeable compact field system, IMHO.

18 is very nice though:

Close Sentiment by unoh7, ZM 18 @ f/4

"Built-in 10-stop ND Filter (might as well go big, if I'm dreaming)"
For me the LEs of creeks and waterfalls are far too ubiquitous in contemporary landscape work. They can be pretty but I get motion sickness and feel i'm looking at some other planet.

However this technique is so popular, the feature would probably help sales alot.

I prefer my water "au natural"

All downhill form here by unoh7, M9+ ZM18

Edited on Nov 13, 2014 at 12:35 PM · View previous versions



Nov 13, 2014 at 12:15 PM
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