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Archive 2014 · Panasonic LX100 is HUGE

  
 
curious80
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p.5 #1 · p.5 #1 · Panasonic LX100 is HUGE


You have to put the lens into the equation before doing any size comparison. LX100 has m43 sensor with a 24-75mm equivalent f1.8-2.8 zoom. To put that in perspective here is the size comparison to a regular m43 with the Panasonic 12-35mm f2.8 zoom (i.e. 24-70mm equivalent):

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/704/22871809993_9c311ec25d_c.jpg

LX100 is impressively small for what it is.



Dec 03, 2015 at 01:42 PM
curious80
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p.5 #2 · p.5 #2 · Panasonic LX100 is HUGE


ISO1600 wrote:
....
Maybe an A6000. That is not much bigger than this.


A6000 with what lens? I owned an A6000 for fairly long time. There aren't any lenses which give you a compact package with it. Sure you could go for the 16-50mm pancake zoom, but thats f3.5-5.6, compared to the f1.8-2.8 on the LX100, so you will lose more than you gain.



Dec 03, 2015 at 01:47 PM
Jman13
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p.5 #3 · p.5 #3 · Panasonic LX100 is HUGE


Not only is the 16-50 pancake zoom slow, it also sucks.


Dec 03, 2015 at 02:05 PM
Jeff Kott
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p.5 #4 · p.5 #4 · Panasonic LX100 is HUGE


ISO1600 wrote:
lenses haha.
Maybe an A6000. That is not much bigger than this.


I think the A6000 is probably the best bang for your buck going now - and it's very compact to boot.

Get the kit lens for outdoor sunny shooting stopped down and a 35/1.8 OSS or Touit 32 used for low light and you've got an awful lot of shooting situations covered.




Dec 03, 2015 at 02:47 PM
darrellc
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p.5 #5 · p.5 #5 · Panasonic LX100 is HUGE


I have the LX100 as companion to Sony A7x based system (sold off all m4/3 kit including GM5 which used to fill that role) and my daily always with me camera.

An A7s with FE 35/2.8 isn't really a lot bigger, is still jacket pocket pocketable (same as LX100 which isn't pants pocketable) and infinitely better IQ wise. I still carry my LX100 most of the time but could probably go A7s/FE35 and be happier with results. But LX100 takes the temptation to carry another lens away so simpler. It is also light, covers a useful focal range, has stabilization, etc. Nice simple all in one and way smaller than an RX10 or FZ1000 which would drive me crazy carrying such a big device with a 1" sensor. LX100 is a near perfect set of tradeoffs for my compact cam. That is why I have it.

Had a couple generations of the RX100 but just too fiddly ergonomically for me. No pleasure using it.



Dec 03, 2015 at 03:06 PM
taran
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p.5 #6 · p.5 #6 · Panasonic LX100 is HUGE


curious80 wrote:
LX100 is impressively small for what it is.

2 things:
1) The LX100 needs to extend its lens, and then the size difference isn't that great.
2) The GX8 has instant startup and acquisition, the LX100, from off, takes a while to extend its lens. Not a big deal, but LX100 is not a decisive moment shooter from "off".



Dec 03, 2015 at 07:54 PM
taran
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p.5 #7 · p.5 #7 · Panasonic LX100 is HUGE


Jeff Kott wrote:
I think the A6000 is probably the best bang for your buck going now - and it's very compact to boot.

Get the kit lens for outdoor sunny shooting stopped down and a 35/1.8 OSS or Touit 32 used for low light and you've got an awful lot of shooting situations covered.



+1

The sigma art primes and the kit zoom and you have an infinitely better kit than my D2x and 17-55 nikkor for 99% of situations... a combo I paid close to $7000 for in 2004-5. Just sayin'.



Dec 03, 2015 at 07:57 PM
curious80
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p.5 #8 · p.5 #8 · Panasonic LX100 is HUGE


taran wrote:
1) The LX100 needs to extend its lens, and then the size difference isn't that great.


At least for me what matters is not the shooting size but the carrying size.

[
2) The GX8 has instant startup and acquisition, the LX100, from off, takes a while to extend its lens. Not a big deal, but LX100 is not a decisive moment shooter from "off".


Sure, the point was not to compare the LX100 to GX8. The point was that when you look at LX100 size, keep in mind that it includes a f1.8-f2.8 m43 zoom lens in that size. The Panasonic 12-35mm f2.8 pictured on the G8X is itself the smallest f2.8 zoom you will find on the market by a fair margin. Yet LX100 is still much smaller than any camera carrying that lens, despite packing a faster aperture. You can't expect that a camera which has an m43 sized sensor and a fast zoom would have the size of an s95 compact.



Dec 03, 2015 at 08:17 PM
taran
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p.5 #9 · p.5 #9 · Panasonic LX100 is HUGE


curious80 wrote:
Sure, the point was not to compare the LX100 to GX8. The point was that when you look at LX100 size, keep in mind that it includes a f1.8-f2.8 m43 zoom lens in that size.


The lens doesn't cover the entire 43 image circle, and comes at the loss of 4 megapixels, and 6 megapixels in 1:1. Vs the GX8 that is not insignificant.



Dec 03, 2015 at 09:23 PM
curious80
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p.5 #10 · p.5 #10 · Panasonic LX100 is HUGE


taran wrote:
+1

The sigma art primes and the kit zoom and you have an infinitely better kit than my D2x and 17-55 nikkor for 99% of situations... a combo I paid close to $7000 for in 2004-5. Just sayin'.


Well I went with the A6000 with similar thoughts and shot with it for about a year but it didn't really work out for me. It is a nice camera but as a system it just didn't work. Before the A6000 I had a big camera / small camera combo. I had the D7000 with a few lenses as my DSLR system. For my small camera I went from S95 to RX100 to EOS-M + 22mm f2. The thought was that the A6000 could essentially replace both, but in reality it didn't really adequately replace either. There is nothing in the system to match the compactness of the EOS-M setup (or LX100 / RX100 etc). And the lens selection is such that unless I spent significantly more on lenses, I had to compromise on image quality compared to my D7000.

So for now I have moved away from A6000 and going back to a combination of having a larger, more accomplished system-camera setup paired with a better "small camera" option.

Edited on Dec 03, 2015 at 10:01 PM · View previous versions



Dec 03, 2015 at 09:29 PM
curious80
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p.5 #11 · p.5 #11 · Panasonic LX100 is HUGE


taran wrote:
The lens doesn't cover the entire 43 image circle, and comes at the loss of 4 megapixels, and 6 megapixels in 1:1. Vs the GX8 that is not insignificant.


Sure. But again you are missing the point. I am not saying LX100 is a better camera than GX8. For that matter I am not even saying that LX100 is a good camera. All I am saying is that when you look at the LX100 size, then keep in mind the sensor size + lens combination that it is offering. We can use DPReview terminology to normalize out the sensor size. With that the LX100 has 24-75mm f4-f6 equivalent zoom lens. The A6000 pancake zoom lens is f5.2-8.4 equivalent. The Panasonic zoom is about 24-70mm f5.6.

Can you find me something which is close to LX100 sensor size + lens combination and has similar or smaller size?



Dec 03, 2015 at 09:54 PM
taran
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p.5 #12 · p.5 #12 · Panasonic LX100 is HUGE


curious80 wrote:
All I am saying is that when you look at the LX100 size, then keep in mind the sensor size + lens combination that it is offering.


If that's the case you would really love the Fuji 645zi.




Dec 03, 2015 at 10:20 PM
curious80
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p.5 #13 · p.5 #13 · Panasonic LX100 is HUGE


taran wrote:
If that's the case you would really love the Fuji 645zi.



Once again you completely miss the point ....... I would leave it at that



Dec 03, 2015 at 10:26 PM
jimmy462
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p.5 #14 · p.5 #14 · Panasonic LX100 is HUGE


taran wrote:
The lens doesn't cover the entire 43 image circle, and comes at the loss of 4 megapixels, and 6 megapixels in 1:1. Vs the GX8 that is not insignificant.


All true, however, that an LX100 Mark II should arrive using the same new 20.3MP M43 sensor as found in the GX8 I'd be more likely to take the pixel hit and go for the LX100 II for the camera size reduction alone. Well, that is, if they give it a tilt or swivel screen to boot!




Dec 03, 2015 at 11:05 PM
taran
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p.5 #15 · p.5 #15 · Panasonic LX100 is HUGE


jimmy462 wrote:
All true, however, that an LX100 Mark II should arrive using the same new 20.3MP M43 sensor as found in the GX8 I'd be more likely to take the pixel hit and go for the LX100 II for the camera size reduction alone. Well, that is, if they give it a tilt or swivel screen to boot!



In general, Sony has allowed fixed lens compacts parity with their sub FF sensors 12 months after release to 1st tier customers, and 6 months after 2nd tier customers.

We'll see very soon whether Panasonic scores a hit with a 20+ mpix Sony sensor before Fuji X100(). I expect LX100mk2 in January, or June. Depending on what Sony has decided.




Dec 04, 2015 at 01:56 AM
jimmy462
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p.5 #16 · p.5 #16 · Panasonic LX100 is HUGE


taran wrote:
In general, Sony has allowed fixed lens compacts parity with their sub FF sensors 12 months after release to 1st tier customers, and 6 months after 2nd tier customers.

We'll see very soon whether Panasonic scores a hit with a 20+ mpix Sony sensor before Fuji X100(). I expect LX100mk2 in January, or June. Depending on what Sony has decided.



It's an interesting observation about sensor production and client availability that you make, but I'm wondering if it's been more a simple case of production supply capacity limitations meeting client demand. And it's likely true that higher-profit sensors go into production before lower-profit units, in general, but I'm thinking that there are a lot more dynamics to this marketplace considering the global demand for imaging sensors, in general.

(On a side not, it's probably best that Sony split off its sensor and camera divisions, if, for nothing else, it'll help level the playing field when it comes to sensor availability as "Sony Camera" will have to compete for production runs along with, oh say, Nikon for the next iteration of FF sensors from "Sony Sensor"! Ha!)

Getting back on topic with the LX100, for someone like me, who's been in the market for a "killer" pocket camera but has been cursing every manufacturer for their seemingly consistent behavior of "cheaping out" with baby-sized sensors for the past decade, the introduction of a, um, "cropped" 16MP M43 sensor turned my head...finally. I can't tell you how many times over the past year I've nearly pulled the trigger on this camera but decided to hold-out and wait to see what the competition would have to offer in the "large sensor, pocket zoom" category! And the only other competitor (by my criterions) has turned out to be the RX100 IV. So, at this point, it seems as though Panasonic is competing with itself for this market space and, well, since it's already been 10 years I might as well just wait for the Mark II and hope they give it a tilt/flip screen!

Sometimes "size" is the "killer app"!




Dec 04, 2015 at 10:06 AM
taran
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p.5 #17 · p.5 #17 · Panasonic LX100 is HUGE


jimmy462 wrote:
I'm thinking that there are a lot more dynamics to this marketplace considering the global demand for imaging sensors, in general.


Sony has a monopoly of all sensors greater than cellphone size, save the few thousand units pushed by CMOSIS through Leica, and Sigma's few thousand units of their sensor, whatever they are calling it.

If there was as much demand as you say, the industry wouldn't have consolidated to a single player.



Dec 04, 2015 at 11:08 AM
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