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Archive 2014 · SF Photographers Turn Down Gay Wedding

  
 
Aremac 01
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · SF Photographers Turn Down Gay Wedding


This topic is blowing up in one of my FB groups. A husband and wife wedding photography team in SF turned down a request from a gay couple to photo their wedding. They're now getting absolutely hammered on Yelp. According to one poster on Yelp, this was the inquiry response from the photographer:

'...Thanks so much for contacting us and for your very kind words. We feel that photographing a gay wedding is not the best match for us, however we can refer you to a colleague who would make a great match. Her name is XXXXX. You can find her work at XXXXX Let her know that XXX and XXX from XXX Photography sent you and she'll take good care of you! We wish you the very best! Please let us know if you have any questions!...'

This is such a prickly situation, but the masses are now out for blood. Thoughts?



Nov 07, 2014 at 11:54 AM
Tony Hoffer
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · SF Photographers Turn Down Gay Wedding


If someone is of the mindset that they don't want to shoot a certain type of wedding (ANY type!), there's a lot more PC ways to decline it. Regardless of how you feel about it (I'm sure we all have something that we wouldn't want to shoot), telling the client directly why you won't shoot it probably isn't the way to go.

If I was approached about a wedding I didn't want to do, I'd just tell them that we're not available rather than saying we don't shoot YOUR TYPE of wedding. While many couples would probably be thankful for a direct response, some aren't so understanding... especially for such a hot button issue.

Edited on Nov 07, 2014 at 12:12 PM · View previous versions



Nov 07, 2014 at 12:08 PM
Tony Hoffer
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · SF Photographers Turn Down Gay Wedding


Also, the over/under for this thread is:

+/- 8 posts until someone says something offensive

+/- 26 posts until it's shut down or someone is banned.



Nov 07, 2014 at 12:10 PM
pmiller228
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · SF Photographers Turn Down Gay Wedding


I don't feel that their response is particularly offensive. It's to the point. Although, with as hot of an issue as gay marriage, they probably should have just said they were booked on their date and skirted their issues entirely.


Nov 07, 2014 at 12:17 PM
joelconner
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · SF Photographers Turn Down Gay Wedding


Is it bad that I actually think the photographer's response was not out of line? It was not rude or demeaning per se...just said it was not the best match for them. I have said the same thing about weddings with straight couples that I did not feel like would be a good 'match" for us.


Nov 07, 2014 at 12:19 PM
Aremac 01
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · SF Photographers Turn Down Gay Wedding


It's clear that the photographers were simply being honest, and I'm sure they felt that by referring them to another photographer they were actually helping the couple. What the photographers didn't think through is that gay marriage is such a hot-button issue right now, and is still being fought for in states across the nation. It is a very sensitive issue, and any hint of discrimination where gay marriage has recently been deemed legal risks the ire of many. And yes, turning down a wedding because the couple is gay can certainly be interpreted as discriminatory.


Nov 07, 2014 at 12:43 PM
Scott Mosher
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · SF Photographers Turn Down Gay Wedding


I'm gonna get reamed for this by some people, I know it. I'm gonna say it anyways. Why is it that a few vocal people in the gay community come out like 2 year olds when they don't get their way on something. What if that reply had just gone to a potential bridezilla? What if the bride and groom both heavyset and didn't fit the "brand" of the photographer?

Disclaimer. I have friends who are gay, I'm not. I've been 2nd shooter at a couple gay weddings. If someone contacted me to shoot one I'd let them know I may not be at my highest comfort level doing so but I wouldn't turn them down.

Heck I have a very good friend who lost a high end Bar Mitzvah because he wasn't Jewish.



Nov 07, 2014 at 12:46 PM
Aremac 01
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · SF Photographers Turn Down Gay Wedding


Scott, see my post right above yours for the potential "why."


Nov 07, 2014 at 12:55 PM
sivrajbm
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · SF Photographers Turn Down Gay Wedding


I almost got Banded the last time this came up, I still feel the same way...


Nov 07, 2014 at 12:55 PM
Aremac 01
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · SF Photographers Turn Down Gay Wedding


I did not start this thread to be provocative and controversial. I believe we can, and should, have a mature discussion about this. This affects us as wedding photographers. For the record, I am straight and have photographed one same sex wedding to date. I would gladly photograph more if given the opportunity.


Nov 07, 2014 at 12:59 PM
pmiller228
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · SF Photographers Turn Down Gay Wedding


The photographers response doesn't scream discrimination to me. It may be that a gay wedding is just too far out of their comfort zone. I personally wouldn't pass but I'd set expectations if it was my first time because the whole thing would be different from what I'm used to. Personally I wouldn't know how to approach the day, similar to how I wouldn't know what the hell I'm doing at an Indian wedding.

It should be ok to say no if you don't feel up to the task for whatever reason.



Nov 07, 2014 at 01:06 PM
Aremac 01
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · SF Photographers Turn Down Gay Wedding


pmiller228 wrote:
The photographers response doesn't scream discrimination to me.


That's my point - although it may not scream discrimination to you or I, it certainly does among a large segment of society. There is definitely something to be learned here.



Nov 07, 2014 at 01:15 PM
joelconner
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · SF Photographers Turn Down Gay Wedding


Aremac 01 wrote:
There is definitely something to be learned here.



That discrimination is often found where you want to find it.



Nov 07, 2014 at 01:19 PM
pmiller228
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · SF Photographers Turn Down Gay Wedding




Aremac 01 wrote:
That's my point - although it may not scream discrimination to you or I, it certainly does among a large segment of society. There is definitely something to be learned here.


Is it a large segment or a very vocal minority? Either one is potentially bad for business if you piss them off.



Nov 07, 2014 at 01:20 PM
Chris Cooke
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · SF Photographers Turn Down Gay Wedding


Here is my 2 cents.

I have photographed 1 same sex wedding. It was 2 ladies and I had a LOT of fun doing it. However when I met them I prefaced the meeting with the fact that I have never done a same sex wedding or photographed a same sex couple. I also told them that while I am not against same sex couples I dont have much experience with the gay community or a lot of good friends who are gay. because it was a last minute booking I gave them a discount and because I was way out of my comfort zone. They were very appreciative for my honesty and were happy at my willingness to at least try to shoot their wedding.
My hesitation for doing more same sex weddings is there is a difference to shooting a heterosexual wedding. I know how to pose couples, I know how to work with a bride and a groom and how to handle myself at a comfort level that is appropriate for everyone. That is why people pay me what they do. I know a lot of people will say there is no difference with a same sex wedding. To me (and other people) there isnt in some ways but in other ways there is. I would not feel comfortable charging what I do to a couple that I am going into their wedding feeling like a novice. I dont think I have enough experience with the gay community to be the best photographer for the couple.
The problem that I have and Im sure other photographers do too is that there are gay couples who are just looking to sue someone. Im not saying that every couple is like that, I know the couple I photographed werent like that but there are people out there who are just looking for reasons to sue someone over discrimination. Look at all the stories you hear about vendors being sued. The couple called them or met with them and recorded to conversations just looking for a hint of "discrimination".
Back when there was 1 or 2 photographers in a town and they did ALL the work in that area sure there would be more of a real issue if they didnt take on gay weddings. However, with the sea of photographers out there I dont see what is so bad about a photographer turning down a gay wedding for whatever reason. Im sure there are 10+ more photographers out there in the couple budget and style that would be happy to shoot the wedding. The "discrimination" and "homophobic" lines are getting old and really upset me when there is so much more to the story other than just turning down a wedding.




Nov 07, 2014 at 01:30 PM
Chris Fawkes
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · SF Photographers Turn Down Gay Wedding


Being honest is not always required and being dishonest is not the automatic alternative of avoiding being so.

If someone post an image and ask for critique then an honest reply may give offence though it comes with a clear intent to benefit the poster.

"We feel that photographing a gay wedding is not the best match for us" is going to hurt feelings for zero benefit.

Not that I think they were intending for that to happen but because they were not thinking of it from the couples perspective.




Nov 07, 2014 at 01:36 PM
Aremac 01
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · SF Photographers Turn Down Gay Wedding


pmiller228 wrote:
Is it a large segment or a very vocal minority? Either one is potentially bad for business if you piss them off.


One would probably be mistaken if they thought it was just gays taking issue, and being vocal, about this. Especially in the Bay Area.



Nov 07, 2014 at 01:43 PM
runamuck
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · SF Photographers Turn Down Gay Wedding


Public Accommodation Laws say you cannot choose your customers. Let's reverse roles here and see how it works? Suppose the photographer is gay and a straight couple wants him to do the wedding. What happens?

I worked as a bartender 40 years ago. The few customers I refused to serve were underage. Every customer's money spends the same.



Nov 07, 2014 at 01:52 PM
Aremac 01
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · SF Photographers Turn Down Gay Wedding


Interesting development... the photographers got Yelp to remove 95% of the negative reviews left on their Yelp page today. For those of you familiar with Yelp, call me amazed!


Nov 07, 2014 at 02:08 PM
canerino
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · SF Photographers Turn Down Gay Wedding


Chris Fawkes wrote:
Being honest is not always required and being dishonest is not the automatic alternative of avoiding being so.



This is what I chimed in to say.

It was mentioned above that what if this email were sent to a bridezilla or a heavyweight bride.... Could you imagine what a dick you would be? "Sorry, you are such a bitch, I really wouldnt be at my best photographing your wedding." Or, "Thanks so much for your inquiry! But the fact of the matter is that you are too fat for my brand...." C'mon.

Tact. It's all about tact.

"Thanks so much for the email. I'm not available, but XXX might be! Tell them I sent you and best wishes on your wedding!"

Move on.



Nov 07, 2014 at 02:27 PM
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