Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Sony Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1      
2
       end
  

Archive 2014 · The State of lenses available for the Sony A7 Series Cameras Plus

  
 
Steve Spencer
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · The State of lenses available for the Sony A7 Series Cameras Plus


Looks like backward field curvature to me as it is on the right side as well and I think I can see it in the third and fourth pictures too. Is this A7r specific or does it show up on the Leica camera too? That second picture also has some pretty strong CA on the microphone stand on the right edge. I don't know if any of these things are a deal breaker though. Overall, it looks reasonably sharp wide open, with just the hint of SA that I like and both foreground and background bokeh look quite nice. Overall, those things matter to me a lot more. Thanks for posting the samples.


Nov 03, 2014 at 02:17 PM
Scott Stoness
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · The State of lenses available for the Sony A7 Series Cameras Plus


naturephoto1 wrote:
Vern,

I suspect that part of the A7r being fussier with the UWA lenses than the A7s is the much higher pixel count for 36 mega pixels than the 12 mega pixels for the A7s.

By the way there can be something said about the small size and weight of the A7 series cameras with the smaller lenses that can be attached. This is one of the major things that I noted while handling the WATE on my A7r and after of course previously handling the camera with my Contax (C/Y) 21mm f2.8 Zeiss Distagon and the new Sony FE 16mm-35mm zoom
...Show more

It has to be more than just pixel count that makes an voightander 15 work on a a7s where it does not work on the a7r. Pixel count would not cause color shifting on edges. The possibliies are:
1) the glass is thicker on a7r causing color shift
2) people using the a7s 15 are using in a manner that color shift is not as dramatic (eg closer focus in dark areas, vs landscapes at near infinity, astrophtography where colors are not clear anyway)
3) bigger pixels permit more photons to enter the pixel buckets from extreme angles thus not causing color shift.

Unfortunately, it woudl require having the a7s, a7, and a7r with v 15, oly 21 to figure it out. But based on the comments I have heard so far, I woudl not extrapolate a7s or a7 experience onto the a7r for uwa. Try before you buy. I loooked at 16-18-21 and it worked on a7r. I have the nikon 20/2.8 and its works well. I have seen images from oly 18 and 21 and they seemed soft on edges. I am not yet willing to pay $6000 for hiking for Leica lens.



Nov 03, 2014 at 02:19 PM
Jonas B
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · The State of lenses available for the Sony A7 Series Cameras Plus


Steve Spencer wrote:
Looks like backward field curvature to me as it is on the right side as well (...)


Well, a deal breaker or not, it is something to consider.
A part of the point with a fast lens is to enable blurry drawing of the background. The same can be said about the foreground but that is of very much less consideration for the most of us I dare to say. A backward field curvature is a drawback (if one can make such a sentence). Are you sure about it being about field curvature? I would have preferred it to be caused by vignetting and no field curvature.
I agree about seeing the phenomena in a couple of the other images as well, and also about your other observations.




Nov 03, 2014 at 03:36 PM
naturephoto1
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · The State of lenses available for the Sony A7 Series Cameras Plus


Scott Stoness wrote:
It has to be more than just pixel count that makes an voightander 15 work on a a7s where it does not work on the a7r. Pixel count would not cause color shifting on edges. The possibliies are:
1) the glass is thicker on a7r causing color shift
2) people using the a7s 15 are using in a manner that color shift is not as dramatic (eg closer focus in dark areas, vs landscapes at near infinity, astrophtography where colors are not clear anyway)
3) bigger pixels permit more photons to enter the pixel buckets from extreme angles thus not causing color
...Show more

The WATE minus the finder is not $6,000 but $5,450 brand new. But, it can be purchased used for closer to $5,000 or possibly less. No question the lens is expensive. But, having handled it on my A7r I will say it is surprisingly small and light for the focal lengths and it is 3 focal lengths and everything in between. Also, it is considerably smaller and lighter than the soon to be released FE 16-35mm lens. Plus with the adapter for the filter adapter for the WATE which is 67mm in size it takes smaller filters than the new Sony lens, and it has a real aperture ring. Also, there is greater likelihood that my Polarzing filters, my ND, and Grad filters will work for all 3 focal lengths than they will on the FE 16-35mm lens.

I have at least for the time being bitten the bullet and I am on the wait list for the purchase of a WATE from Leica Camera USA/North America with a 4 to 6 month back order time frame.

Rich



Nov 03, 2014 at 04:06 PM
Steve Spencer
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · The State of lenses available for the Sony A7 Series Cameras Plus


Jonas B wrote:
Well, a deal breaker or not, it is something to consider.
A part of the point with a fast lens is to enable blurry drawing of the background. The same can be said about the foreground but that is of very much less consideration for the most of us I dare to say. A backward field curvature is a drawback (if one can make such a sentence). Are you sure about it being about field curvature? I would have preferred it to be caused by vignetting and no field curvature.
I agree about seeing the phenomena in a couple of the
...Show more

I agree that backward field curvature is less than ideal, but I just looked at Ron Scheffler's shots with the M240 in the ZF/ZE/ZM thread and I don't see any evidence of backward field curvature there. In fact, there are a couple with a pretty clear flat plane of focus. I am wondering if it is the A7r that is inducing the field curvature, or more specifically the cover glass from the A7r is inducing the field curvature. If that is the right term for what we are seeing. What I think I am observing is that stuff that is considerable behind the central focus point on either side is in fairly sharp focus. These are very early samples, and we will have to wait for tests under better conditions, but I am worried that on the A7(x) cameras, the lens will be good but not great. I worry it will be a bit like the 50 lux ASPH, but we will just have to wait and see. I hope I am wrong.



Nov 04, 2014 at 01:20 AM
philber
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · The State of lenses available for the Sony A7 Series Cameras Plus


Steve, had my 50 'Lux "only" exhibited field curvature on my A7R, I might have lived with it. But it displayed quite bit of irretrievable mush at infinity until stopped down to f:8.0. In these pictures, the OOF parts seem mush-and-colour-fringing-free. So, while it is very early days, I am hopeful that the ZM will work out just fine. It does stand to reason that Zeiss made sure it would work on not just one platform, where it is not exactly welcome, but on a second one as well, where it will be embraced. It also stands to reason that they are not bragging about it in order not to ruffle Sony's feather, who are about to release a lens with the same focal legnth and speed.


Nov 04, 2014 at 02:40 AM
Jonas B
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · The State of lenses available for the Sony A7 Series Cameras Plus


Steve Spencer wrote:
I agree that backward field curvature is less than ideal, but I just looked at Ron Scheffler's shots with the M240 in the ZF/ZE/ZM thread and I don't see any evidence of backward field curvature there. In fact, there are a couple with a pretty clear flat plane of focus. I am wondering if it is the A7r that is inducing the field curvature, or more specifically the cover glass from the A7r is inducing the field curvature. If that is the right term for what we are seeing. What I think I am observing is that stuff that is considerable...Show more

I don't know if I get my "facts" right but in Ron's images, #1 and #2 there are signs of field curvature, and a backward one. In #1 check the lamps in the ceiling. Those further away and to the left and right are "sharper" than those in the center of the image. In #2 we have a horizontal white line just above the salesman's head. It gets sharper closer to the edge of the image while, at least to me, it seams as it is parallel to the sensor plane. I didn't check the other images in detail but noticed a surprisingly sharp Samsung sign to the right.
As it is today, yes, we'll have to wait and see.

Which images demonstrates flat plane of focus? Maye it is a shooting distance phenomena?



Nov 04, 2014 at 11:56 AM
Steve Spencer
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · The State of lenses available for the Sony A7 Series Cameras Plus


philber wrote:
Steve, had my 50 'Lux "only" exhibited field curvature on my A7R, I might have lived with it. But it displayed quite bit of irretrievable mush at infinity until stopped down to f:8.0. In these pictures, the OOF parts seem mush-and-colour-fringing-free. So, while it is very early days, I am hopeful that the ZM will work out just fine. It does stand to reason that Zeiss made sure it would work on not just one platform, where it is not exactly welcome, but on a second one as well, where it will be embraced. It also stands to reason that
...Show more

I hope you are right, Phillipe, but my worry is that for a planar subject like architecture that the corners won't be in focus when the middle is and vice versa. It might work fine for infinity landscapes (at least some of them), but I worry about buildings. I hope I am wrong. I am also sure that Zeiss will try to make it work with both types cameras, but with the difference in cover glass thickness it might not be possible to get optimal performance with both types of cameras and if they have to choose as this is a ZM I would imagine they will make optimal performance with the Leica cameras. If that is the case, then in due time I would expect a Loxia version and that ought to match the Leica M performance of this lens. So, in time I would imagine a very good solution will be available even if this one is only pretty good. Again, I hope I am wrong. I would love for this lens to be a stellar performer.



Nov 04, 2014 at 04:50 PM
Steve Spencer
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · The State of lenses available for the Sony A7 Series Cameras Plus


Jonas B wrote:
Steve Spencer wrote:
I don't know if I get my "facts" right but in Ron's images, #1 and #2 there are signs of field curvature, and a backward one. In #1 check the lamps in the ceiling. Those further away and to the left and right are "sharper" than those in the center of the image. In #2 we have a horizontal white line just above the salesman's head. It gets sharper closer to the edge of the image while, at least to me, it seams as it is parallel to the sensor plane. I didn't check the other images
...Show more

I have no confidence in my ''facts" either and I could be missing the mark very easily, but when I look at Ron's #1 image it looks to me like the guy with the bunny ears at the extreme right edge and to a lesser extent the guy with glasses at the extreme left edge are quite sharp. The guy with bunny ears seems to be about the same distance away as the central subject and the guy with glass a bit closer (and yet he is still fairly sharp) so looking at these two I was thinking it was a pretty flat field. I do see what you are talking about with the lights, however. The corners on both the left and right seem sharper than they ought to be. To me #2 looks similar, but just not as clear.

When I look at #4, however, I can see what may be a bit more field curvature and it is at a longer focal distance. It may be that the field curvature is most notable at a bit longer focal distance. So, at this point I would just call the potential field curvature a worry or concern. I'm not sure at all that it is real, and how bad it is. I am also more worried about it for the A7(x) cameras than Leica cameras both based on thinking about the thicker cover glass and based on the images, but even on the A7(x) cameras there is a lot to like about this lens and the field curvature may just be something to know about and work around rather than a fatal flaw. Of course we haven't seen any infinity shots yet, which will be the ones most likely to cause problems.



Nov 04, 2014 at 04:58 PM
Jonas B
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · The State of lenses available for the Sony A7 Series Cameras Plus


I think you summed it up pretty well Steve. Something is going on but it is too early saying exactly what. I had, and have, some hopes for the ZM35/1.4. My RX1 works very well but it would be great with an even faster, and really good, lens. The ZM35/1.4 seem to deliver but the questions about possible field curvature or bad matching to the (cheap) Sony sensor topping design worries me. Time will tell. Regards!


Nov 05, 2014 at 01:16 AM
naturephoto1
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · The State of lenses available for the Sony A7 Series Cameras Plus


Jonas B wrote:
I think you summed it up pretty well Steve. Something is going on but it is too early saying exactly what. I had, and have, some hopes for the ZM35/1.4. My RX1 works very well but it would be great with an even faster, and really good, lens. The ZM35/1.4 seem to deliver but the questions about possible field curvature or bad matching to the (cheap) Sony sensor topping design worries me. Time will tell. Regards!


Didn't Zeiss indicate that the lens was designed for the Leica M system and not for the Sony A7 series FE mount? The new 35mm f2 Loxia was developed specifically for the the Sony FE mount of the A7 series cameras. I think that everyone wanting a 35mm f1.4 for the A7 series cameras may well have to wait several years for this lens based upon how slowly Zeiss appears to be releasing Loxia lenses for the the A7 cameras.

Rich

Edited on Nov 05, 2014 at 10:06 AM · View previous versions



Nov 05, 2014 at 07:21 AM
uscmatt99
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · The State of lenses available for the Sony A7 Series Cameras Plus


I'm no optical engineer and am just basing this on my personal subjective experience, but it seems like the A7x series cameras add backward field curvature to everything. This exacerbates the issue with the ZM25/2.8 and ZM35/2.8 to the point they are not really useable at infinity. However, it seems to mitigate against curvature I got used to with the ZF.2 35/1.4 Distagon compared to what I was accustomed to when shooting on Nikon bodies (D700, D600). I was hoping that the ZM 35/1.4 was going to have forward curvature, but it looks like it may not based on the samples Still looking forward to comparing it's overall rendering to my CV 35/1.2 and ZF.2 35/1.4 lenses though.


Nov 05, 2014 at 08:22 AM
1      
2
       end




FM Forums | Sony Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1      
2
       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.