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Archive 2014 · Images for free?

  
 
g-money
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Images for free?


Received an email a week ago from a design/publishing company who is working on a magazine for the Arkansas Dept of Tourism about destination wedding venues in Arkansas. She told me they were doing a two page spread on a local venue in my hometown and the art director liked some of the shots he seen taken at this venue on my blog and wanted to use them for the magazine and they would be happy to give me a photo credit.

I replied back to her thanking her for her interest and asking did they set aside any budget of the photography for this project as other times magazines have asked to use my work they have offered some form of compensation along with a photocredit.

after about a week I heard back from her saying no photography budget at all cause they had so many locations they are showcasing they are only offering a photo credit. She did say she would send me the spread containing my images for my approval before publishing.

I am torn on letting them use the images for a couple reasons and then the nice guy side of me says don't be a dick just let them use them, what could it hurt. Obviously everyone else is allowing it.

The magazine itself is not about showcasing photographers in an area rather showcasing the venues and as far as I know this venue doesn't promote me or any other photographer for events there.

My hometown is very small 18000+ and no one really comes here for weddings. We are in south AR in the pine forest not in the beautiful scenery of the Ozarks up north. This is not a destination stop for anyone. Trust me!

It sort of chaps me that the state is using my tax dollars to pay another Arkansas company money to make this magazine, but this magazine when bidding the job allowed $0.00 monies for photography. I would think it would probably be a pretty bland book without images.

Is this a norm with these types of magazines and I have just been lucky in getting paid in the past. I have been humbled to have had my work used in 3 differnet magazines and each time I was compensated decently for my time and images.

I know I probably won't gain a thing out of this, but I also know it won't hurt anything either other than to reinforce to the magazine that paying for photography is optional. Something they already knew or mony would have been set aside. Kind of torn here.



Oct 29, 2014 at 03:05 PM
amonline
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Images for free?


I'd consider it free advertizing and do it. Can't hurt.


Oct 29, 2014 at 03:09 PM
formula4speed
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Images for free?


You could let them know what your rates are and see if they stick to their $0 budget. I do print design and you'd be amazed how many budgets get increased when they find out they have to pay to get what they really want. You do risk having them just moving on and using someone else for images, but that doesn't really hurt you in this case, in my opinion.


Oct 29, 2014 at 03:38 PM
jeremy_clay
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Images for free?


You will see 0 return in regards to 'I saw your photo used in an ad for _______'; you would be doing it for having a photo in print somewhere. If that is payment enough in your books, then do it. A breakdown of your usage rates is probably the course I would take.


Oct 29, 2014 at 03:55 PM
tntcorp
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Images for free?


"....the state is using my tax dollars to pay another Arkansas company money to make this magazine, but this magazine when bidding the job allowed $0.00 monies for photography."

believe it or not but the scenerio you described often occured in a bidding war for government contracts. contractors will outbid each others for the contract, which is usually lucrative. the winning contractor then turns around and cuts corners to maximize their profits while delivering the minimum product meeting the contract requirements. another words, they are paid to deliver the end product, but are not willing to pay you for the image right. once the contractor is identified to be a past contract winner, they usually will become the prefer contractor and received repeating business from the govt. it's a broken process in my opinion, but that is the pitfall of huge government bureaucrats.

in my honest opinion, you should tell the company to move on down the street since they aren't willing to pay for the image right even though they have built-in the cost in their bid submission. good luck!




Oct 29, 2014 at 04:40 PM
Ian Ivey
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Images for free?


A photo credit in a state-published tourism brochure likely presents low or zero value proposition to you. Ask yourself what the expected value of that photo credit really is. If you've never been published, then you could now call yourself a published photographer -- perhaps that's useful. But I'd bet $50 you'll never get a call from a client who books you that starts with "I saw your name in the Arkansas Department of Tourism brochure."

So if not being published in this brochure costs you nothing, then tell them your rate for a license and let them decide whether to pay or not. (And if they decline, be sure you find that brochure after they publish it, to see whether they used your photos anyway.)

Also, register that collection with the US Copyright Office this week. Seriously.



Oct 29, 2014 at 04:59 PM
Littleguy
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Images for free?


"I know I probably won't gain a thing out of this"

If this is how you feel - I wouldn't do it.

But if you can find a way to milk it to your advantage - is there a way to use this in your promotion? Can you spin it to get more exposure? If you can work it - then do it.

Me - I am too lazy to milk things like this - so most likely turn it down but you maybe different than me :-)



Oct 29, 2014 at 05:01 PM
swoop
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Images for free?


I wouldn't do it based on principle alone. The guy editing the magazine is getting paid, the company printing the magazine is getting paid, but the guy providing content for the magazine isn't? Screw them. I bet if you asked about putting an ad in the magazine they'd give you a figure pretty quick.




Oct 29, 2014 at 06:41 PM
Boss302
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Images for free?


Hello from the SW area of Arkansas. I do industrial photography for my job so actually my employer owns that work copyright. We were asked for some images to use in economic development materials for our region. My employer, being a generous person, of course said yes. So some of the images I took are on the economic development website. Then lo and behold - the other one is blown up large and is on display at our local airport. While we don't get credit or actual acknowledgements - I do take bragging rights. Every time we fly in or out - I point at the display and "loudly proclaim" (so others can hear)to my coworkers there is "my" photo! Lol. It makes me feel a bit better because I know they are being used to help people working to improve our region and bring in new business to the area.


Oct 29, 2014 at 08:15 PM
g-money
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Images for free?


swoop wrote:
I wouldn't do it based on principle alone. The guy editing the magazine is getting paid, the company printing the magazine is getting paid, but the guy providing content for the magazine isn't? Screw them. I bet if you asked about putting an ad in the magazine they'd give you a figure pretty quick.



Swoop this sums up my feelings perfectly. Everybody gets paid but the photographers.




Oct 29, 2014 at 09:34 PM
nolaguy
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Images for free?


Ian Ivey wrote:
Also, register that collection with the US Copyright Office this week. Seriously.


I swear if Ian only posted on the Mars internet, I'd find a way to get access.

Pay attention to his advice, always. He'll likely add a disclaimer to this but he's the community's most insightful, consistent, accurate (albeit totally unofficial) legal counsel - and one of the clearest thinkers on FM.

Though he doesn't elaborate, his point above (registering the copyright in advance) opens the door for considerable damages (in your favor) if they go ahead without your consent and publish your work.


Beyond that, you'll gain nothing but bragging rights or the altruistic feel-good of helping your state if you allow this. Only you know what those things are worth to you.

Down to brass tacks, as others have pointed out, tell the inquiring firm sure, you're happy to contribute if they'll drop their pants pro bono as well, and do so in writing.

Regards,

Chuck





Oct 29, 2014 at 09:35 PM
Nikon_14
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Images for free?


Boss302 wrote there is "my" photo! Lol. It makes me feel a bit better because I know they are being used to help people working to improve our region and bring in new business to the area.


To quote TRR, albeit somewhat out of context, you have just become a charity for the middle class. You can do whatever you like- but as for me, I want, no, NEED, to get paid for what I'm worth.



Oct 30, 2014 at 08:59 AM
Boss302
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Images for free?


Nikon_14 wrote:
To quote TRR, albeit somewhat out of context, you have just become a charity for the middle class. You can do whatever you like- but as for me, I want, no, NEED, to get paid for what I'm worth.


I can appreciate that and I fully agree with you that as independent businesses we should charge what we need and are worth. When I noted that it was my "day job" image that was used I'd hoped to indicate that I did get paid (by my employer) for my work. It was up to them to donate it to the economic development council as they owned the image copyright.



Oct 30, 2014 at 11:20 AM
Kannalaphoto
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Images for free?


Photographers seem to be the only ones stupid enough to completely undermine their own industry. These companies completely rely on photography but yet have 0 respect for the photographers. Why would they when so many are willing to take payment in the form of an ego boost.


Oct 30, 2014 at 11:38 AM
g-money
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Images for free?


Had to pass on the conclusion to this post and it ends just about like I thought it would. I wrote them back and proposed a dollar figure that i thought was more than fair for up to three images for the spread.

I did mentioned to them be sure and let me know if I had misunderstood and if they were doing this work pro bono for the state then I would be more than happy to contibute and do my part, but if not I am sure they could understand how insulting that would be to photographer's everywhere if everyone is getting paid except us.

I then even gave them an option of just mentioning my business name and website address in the article as a wedding photographer to consider for this venue. If I could get that then I would certainly consider donating the images they wanted.

They wrote back and said they appreciated my input, but they would not be paying for images as they had already had many photographers submit images for consideration, but they would consider my input for future publications. lol Sure they will and as long as they get images for free why should they.

Kannalphoto summed it up perfectly in his post above. Undermining our own industry for a photocredit! Appreciate eveyones input!

Greg



Nov 05, 2014 at 10:11 PM
amonline
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Images for free?


They'll consider it by never contacting you again. Lost opportunity. I totally get what others are saying; but even if this landed you one gig, it would have been worth it. I think many photogs are far too greedy in this area, and overlook the potential rewards. After all, it's not like this was a national publication. That's just my view.


Nov 05, 2014 at 10:39 PM
Focus Locus
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Images for free?


amonline wrote:
Lost opportunity... even if this landed you one gig, it would have been worth it. I think many photogs are far too greedy in this area, and overlook the potential rewards.



What are the potential rewards?

Establishing, no, reinforcing a precedent that the work product of a photographer that is good enough to print is yet not good enough to pay for?


What are the potential rewards?

Do these rewards pay the studio rent? Buy electricity? Put food on the table? Put kids through college? Pay the mortgage? Do they even pay for the photographer's website hosting fees that enabled the magazine editor to find the freakin photos in the first place?


What are the potential rewards?

Advertising? The OP offered his photos free in exchange for mentioning his name and what he does for business, and he was turned down. They just wanted to use his photo, to make their publication pretty, without paying him for it. The trades he offered were turned down. They weren't donating, so why should he? Even the delivery guy who distributes this tourism rag from hotel to hotel gets paid, but not the photographer?


What are the potential rewards?

Status by association? AKA Bragging rights? From a tiny tucked away byline that no one but photographers ever even notices? And for a wedding photographer who presumably services his/her local community primarily, what need have these locals to read or even know the existence of a Tourism magazine, for where they live, work, and grew up? Tourism mags, by definition, are for out of towners. Unless one is in Las Vegas, weddings are typically planned, not something that people decide to do on a tour bus to Disneyland or Hot Springs.

What are the potential rewards?

Because I'd really like to know. Other than feeling used, because one is actually being used, I'm not seeing any in this situation. And I'm not greedy. I'd have been all too happy to let them use my photos, for free, for the promotion of my local community... the only problem is that it isn't really free. The true price paid is the demotion of my professional community, and the further the value of this even larger community sinks, the further I sink with it.

So, I ask you, what are these potential rewards?



Nov 06, 2014 at 12:20 AM
amonline
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Images for free?


That's just it. You'll never know if you lost a $10k wedding because you chose not to supply three images for a free two page ad that will span the state.

In fact, any potential job as a result of that two page ad WOULD "pay studio rent", "buy electricity", "put food on the table", "put kids through college", "pay the mortgage, website fees", and possibly much more.

So, piss away an opportunity over a few hundred dollars, and you'll never know what you missed.

What if a wedding-specific facility asked the same? Would you turn them down too? When does it become smart to say yes? What if [insert your favorite high end wedding location] asked the same? You gonna quibble over a few hundred bucks? Get real.

I just shared my opinion. I don't have time to argue about it. Simply put, I wouldn't be as greedy over a few hundred bucks, with the potential benefits that are simply common sense.



Nov 06, 2014 at 01:14 AM
TTLKurtis
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Images for free?


Being published in a tourism magazine and being published in a pamphlet by a venue that will hand that to potential clients and can recommend you via a list or verbally or ideally both... Those are two very different things. But by all means, give your work away for free to everyone. Why not shoot a wedding for free as well, it would be worth it if just one of their friends eventually books you as a result right?


Nov 06, 2014 at 01:30 AM
g-money
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Images for free?


amonline wrote:
That's just it. You'll never know if you lost a $10k wedding because you chose not to supply three images for a free two page ad that will span the state.

In fact, any potential job as a result of that two page ad WOULD "pay studio rent", "buy electricity", "put food on the table", "put kids through college", "pay the mortgage, website fees", and possibly much more.

So, piss away an opportunity over a few hundred dollars, and you'll never know what you missed.

What if a wedding-specific facility asked the same? Would you turn them down too? When
...Show more

Alan I can appreciate your input and I thought real hard about any benifits or potential income this could bring me and in reality the odds of a booking coming in thru this pamplet are miniscule. My hometown has went from 28000 to just over 18000 in the past 20 yrs. We have lost many of top employers for our area. People are leaving this area not coming to it. This is not Hot Springs or Eureka Springs which are the top two destination wedding spots in the state. I have already been published several times so that aspect did not fasinate me as much as had I not been. I just felt the opportunity to make a point, a point that if all in our field would make would benifit everyone out weighed the odds of gaining a client. Truthfully I thought they might bite an give me and all photographers contributing a mention with our name and web address. Yet they wouldn't even bite on that. So really I seriously doubt I have lost anything other than to say I was publish again.

You asked when does it become smart to say yes? I think you have to handle things like this on a case by case basis and in this case the answer may vary from each person to each location and even the venue involved. Had I lived in Hot Springs a destination wedding chioice of many brides here I would be way more inclined to have donated and rolled the dice on a potential future booking coming from it. If the venue itself had contacted me and asked to use my images in their personal flyer, heck yes I would be all in. I honestly didn't see much loss from turning this one down.




Nov 06, 2014 at 02:22 PM
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