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Archive 2014 · In a few years will we see the X-T1 and EM1 as a turning point?

  
 
lexvo
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · In a few years will we see the X-T1 and EM1 as a turning point?


I read and hear about more and more people (including pros) switching from DSLRs to mirrorless. I have switched myself too so there may be some user bias, but I think there is more. With the introduction of the Olympus OMD-M1 and the Fujifilm X-T1 we have two “SLR-like” mirrorless systems which can do a lot of things DSLRs can do:
- high quality images
- give a choice of a growing range of lenses, many of them high quality
- fast enough AF for most situations with the introduction of PDAF
- responsiveness
- weather sealing
- …

For me and many others the compact size, low weight are great benefits and even a reason to switch from a DSLR. For me personally, the accurate AF is also a big plus.

In a few years time, will we look back at 2014 as a turning point for mirrorless cameras? What do you think?



Oct 24, 2014 at 12:49 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · In a few years will we see the X-T1 and EM1 as a turning point?


I think it depends upon what one shoots and where. AF speed has certainly been a huge obstacle in the past but for many, the EVF has also been an issue, particularly in bright, contrasty light. There will likely always be a large group of serious users and Pros who will continue to prefer a real optical finder imo. I do think mirrorless has turned a corner though.


Oct 24, 2014 at 01:00 PM
retrofocus
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · In a few years will we see the X-T1 and EM1 as a turning point?


More 2013 - the year when Sony released the first FF mirrorless camera system. IMO this was a big step for mirrorless cameras and made history and a turning point for many.


Oct 24, 2014 at 01:17 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · In a few years will we see the X-T1 and EM1 as a turning point?


My take is that we are still a few years away from any sort of turning point. That will happen when Canon and/or Nikon introduce FF compact system cameras or one of the other manufacturers sells enough to seriously challenge their hegemony. Right now the two Goliaths dominate the market and until that changes there won't be a turning point.

The camera that will change the market in my view will be one the size of the EM!, XT1, or A7 series cameras with good tracking AF, 10 FPS, a good buffer with good throughput, an EVF with about 4 more stops of dynamic range than the current ones, a good set of fairly small lenses, and a FF sensor. In other words a compact system camera that can compete with Canon and Nikon high end cameras. Until a compact system camera can do that they will always be a compromise--and a smart one for many people--but I don't think they will make much of a dent in the Canikon market dominance.



Oct 24, 2014 at 01:49 PM
rattymouse
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · In a few years will we see the X-T1 and EM1 as a turning point?


No. The level of support that Fujifilm and Olympus provide is not even close to CaNikon's pro support. Only THE most low level pro would be satisifed with this. Further, Fujifilm's flash system is laughable in comparison. More like a toy system.




Oct 24, 2014 at 02:11 PM
darrellc
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · In a few years will we see the X-T1 and EM1 as a turning point?


It is already happening at the margins, which is often how dominant platforms fall (think Windows and all the erosion at the margin from mobile and tablets and impact on core PC business). I read all the time from pros who are picking up an A7 or have an EM-1 that they use for personal or for select applications, and find more and more use cases for these smaller cameras in their workflow.

So the "chinks in the armor" are there, just a matter of the alternative manufacturers successfully building on that, and what the response from a Canon or Nikon will be.

I'd love to see a Nikon D900 (more likely, D1900) with EVF and a short flange mirrorless mount with an adapter for legacy support of the current mount. I suspect we'll eventually see the integrated EVF for both cost reduction and competitive response needs, but unfortunately probably no short flange mount for alternative lenses.

Edited on Oct 24, 2014 at 02:39 PM · View previous versions



Oct 24, 2014 at 02:39 PM
millsart
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · In a few years will we see the X-T1 and EM1 as a turning point?


rattymouse wrote:
No. The level of support that Fujifilm and Olympus provide is not even close to CaNikon's pro support. Only THE most low level pro would be satisifed with this. Further, Fujifilm's flash system is laughable in comparison. More like a toy system.




I think it highly depends on the type of work one does. I know a good number of pro photographers who earn a WAY better income than I do who don't shoot with CaNikon gear.

I've done quite a few product shoots using a variety of Fuji, m4/3 and Sony gear, in addition to my Nikon's. Fuji's flash system was just fine because I used studio lighting and only rely on the camera for triggering.

The added DoF from m4/3 was very useful in doing a shoot for a volleyball equipment company, and the ability to compose on the rear LCD was also very useful for that type of work. I even stacked focus on a few shots and being able to touch the screen to control the point of focus made this really easier. Much easier than trying to adjust the focus ring on my Nikon's and not bump the tripod.

So what does this tell us ?

Am I a "low level pro" because I used what I felt were the best possible tools for a given job ?

I'll certainly be using my Nikon DSLR's for this weekends football games, and yes, my D3s and 400/2.8 certainly outperform any mirrorless system I own, at least when it comes to AF performance, but pro photography does not start nor end with sports work.

I actually make way more money doing product photography than I do covering sports.

What do we use to define who a "real" pro is ? If I look cool when you might catch me in the back on the endzone for 5 seconds on TV while at an NFL game with my Nikon DSLR's, or when I'm at the bank cashing a pretty nice check for some product work, which I may have shot with a silly little "toy" camera ?

Pro level support really isn't a huge factor either. Whenever myself, or anyone I know, covers things like weddings etc, we carry 2 or 3 of each item. The fact that I could send one of my camera's to Nikon and get 3 day turn around really doesn't do me much good if something goes down while on assignment.

I'd honestly say that support is probably a bigger issue for the "low level" pro's you mention. Guys who can only afford to buy one camera body, so when its broken, can't work. They really need fast repair times and/or rental gear.

I can pretty much go without any given piece of gear for quite a while because I have several backup items, or similar items that will still get the job done. Nikon service centers don't make me sleep any better at night.

This whole silly internet forum idolization of "pro's" and what they do or don't do, and how it has any bearing on if an equipment choice is good or bad is so odd to me.

The reality of pro photography, coming from someone who's made photography their sole means of income for the past ten years, is that pro's are no different than anyone else really, with the exception we usually don't have as nice of gear as most enthusiast since we don't have 100K+ "day jobs" as lawyers, doctors, executives etc to pay for everything lol.



Oct 24, 2014 at 02:39 PM
jctriguy
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · In a few years will we see the X-T1 and EM1 as a turning point?


retrofocus wrote:
More 2013 - the year when Sony released the first FF mirrorless camera system. IMO this was a big step for mirrorless cameras and made history and a turning point for many.


Isn't Leica FF mirrorless as well



Oct 24, 2014 at 02:51 PM
naturephoto1
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · In a few years will we see the X-T1 and EM1 as a turning point?


jctriguy wrote:
Isn't Leica FF mirrorless as well


The Leica M240 is first a FF range finder camera and second a FF mirrorless camera.

Rich



Oct 24, 2014 at 02:55 PM
rattymouse
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · In a few years will we see the X-T1 and EM1 as a turning point?


millsart wrote:

Am I a "low level pro" because I used what I felt were the best possible tools for a given job ?



A low level pro, in the context of my post, is someone who can get buy with "Fujifilm" levels of support. There simply is no comparison at all between what Fujifilm offers pros and what CaNikon does.




Oct 24, 2014 at 02:59 PM
ken.vs.ryu
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · In a few years will we see the X-T1 and EM1 as a turning point?


The nex made the mirrorless compact. The a7 made the full frame compact.


Oct 24, 2014 at 03:08 PM
flash
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · In a few years will we see the X-T1 and EM1 as a turning point?


Hmmm. Canon's local CPS was one of the reasons I left the brand after 20 years. Yep turn around is pretty fast but Olympus, who are two blocks away, get most jobs done in 10-14 days. And not once, when I needed a loaner due to a service, did Canon Australia have one I could use. As soon as they started selling the service for profit I bailed.

In terms of a turning point, I think that's the camera that made everyone sit up and notice, not the one that finished them off. For me that's the EM-5 and its 5 axis IS. The EM-1 is an evolution of the original.

Gordon



Oct 24, 2014 at 03:19 PM
carstenw
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · In a few years will we see the X-T1 and EM1 as a turning point?


I think that "turning point" is a bit too strongly phrased. Mirrorless hasn't really "made it" yet, in many ways. However, there was certainly an inflection point, but I think earlier. FT/MFT was one part of that. IMO NEX wasn't, except for boards like this one. The A7 may in hindsight turn out to have been one, but I am not yet sure.

I think that FT probably legitimised the use of smaller sensors for quality work.



Oct 24, 2014 at 03:26 PM
dasrocket
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · In a few years will we see the X-T1 and EM1 as a turning point?


If we define "turning point" but a change of paradigm, I remember the Pana G1 really being the first mirrorless compact followed by Oly's EP-1. The rest followed.
That's when, for the first time, my Canons and Nikons felt heavy, big and somewhat...old .
Sure, that was only the first attempt but back then, it made the choice to use a smaller system accessible and affordable to many.
It launched the m43 standard and on this forum, knocked-off Canon as the only option for third party glass -and for the first time, m-glass.





ken.vs.ryu wrote:
The nex made the mirrorless compact. The a7 made the full frame compact.




Oct 24, 2014 at 03:31 PM
millsart
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · In a few years will we see the X-T1 and EM1 as a turning point?




Am I a "low level pro" because I used what I felt were the best possible tools for a given job ?



A low level pro, in the context of my post, is someone who can get buy with "Fujifilm" levels of support. There simply is no comparison at all between what Fujifilm offers pros and what CaNikon does.




I guess that would make me a "low level pro" then because I don't rely upon, nor really have desire to, CaNikon support.

When I have to send a body in for service I use a 3rd party instead of Nikon factory service. Cheaper but not as fast. I don't really care about the time frame it takes because I have plenty of other equipment to use.

What would a "high level pro" be in comparison then ? Someone who needs constant handholding and reassurance from CaNikon ?

If you can't be without your equipment for more than 48 hours, I think that you need to purchase multiple backups, not count on being able to get something fixed in 2 days time.

I have seen Canon CPS at a few NCAA bowl games and I guess its nice and all they offer free cleanings etc on site, but that really only pertains to a small scope of pro photography, the sports market.

Its not like a Canon CPS booth is going to be set up at the site of a big fashion shoot. Gear goes down there, your out of luck. Its why you carry backups for everything. Same with weddings etc.

Its just a rather silly thing to base a camera choice on in my opinion.

Not buying, lets say a XT1, even if it meets every other need a photographer might have, because of a worry Fuji might not fix it as fast as another brand ? Craziness.....

As I said, if your shooting something that important that you need 100% reliability in your gear, buy 2, they are just a $1300 body. Heck, buy a few, still can come out cheaper than some CaNikon bodies


Oct 24, 2014 at 03:34 PM
rattymouse
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · In a few years will we see the X-T1 and EM1 as a turning point?


"Its just a rather silly thing to base a camera choice on in my opinion. "

This just indicates that you don't understand, nor need CaNikon's level of support.

Nothing wrong with that and that's why I used the term low level as a differentiating term compared to those who simply MUST have their cameras on hand in as timely a fashion as possible.



Oct 24, 2014 at 03:51 PM
rattymouse
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · In a few years will we see the X-T1 and EM1 as a turning point?


"If you can't be without your equipment for more than 48 hours, I think that you need to purchase multiple backups, not count on being able to get something fixed in 2 days time. "

If a pro's back up goes down, he's suddenly without a back up and is then operating on a single camera. With Fujifilm or Olympus' support, that means 2-3 weeks easy without a back up. Most pros would not be happy flying solo for that length of time on their back up. A low level pro might have a higher tolerance.

CaNikon's level of service exists for a reason.



Oct 24, 2014 at 03:53 PM
rattymouse
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · In a few years will we see the X-T1 and EM1 as a turning point?


"What would a "high level pro" be in comparison then ? Someone who needs constant handholding and reassurance from CaNikon ?"

This is abject nonsense.



Oct 24, 2014 at 03:54 PM
jctriguy
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · In a few years will we see the X-T1 and EM1 as a turning point?


rattymouse wrote:
"What would a "high level pro" be in comparison then ? Someone who needs constant handholding and reassurance from CaNikon ?"

This is abject nonsense.


Your use of 'low level' and high level' is abject nonsense.



Oct 24, 2014 at 04:05 PM
rattymouse
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · In a few years will we see the X-T1 and EM1 as a turning point?


jctriguy wrote:
Your use of 'low level' and high level' is abject nonsense.


Care to provide a reason?



Oct 24, 2014 at 04:15 PM
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