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Archive 2014 · D800 still has the best skin tones SOOC

AMaji
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · D800 still has the best skin tones SOOC

JonChard wrote:
...What is abundantly clear to me is that i get far sharper pictures on canons defunct and old sensors than i do with the D810 - the D810 is a pain in the @rse to ensure ALL shots are sharp - I would suggest in some instances that for truly critical 100% sharpness, the D810 needs 3x the shutter speed...

I don't understand why this is happening with your D810... perhaps a defective unit or user error? Or is it that the Canon sensor's were not capable of producing tack sharp images and hid all the user errors and you thought that those images were sharp?

I am not trying to be a smart ass but trying to understand this assertion. By the way, your first post in this thread was really trollish...

Edited on May 25, 2015 at 12:03 PM · View previous versions

May 25, 2015 at 09:20 AM

RickJames
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · D800 still has the best skin tones SOOC

JonChard wrote:
Thank you for that. What i miss most from Canon is the next to zero purple fringing (apart from the 85 1.2), and the SPOT AF i.e. instead of 4% focus spot 2 % focus spot which absolutely did nail eye focus and not eye lashes ... my experience has been the opposite im afraid. I still nail focus 90% of the time with the 5dmk3 but miss more on nikon ESPECIALLY at the smaller apertures. My other major hate of the Nikon is its inability to allow me to fire off a shot compare dwith the canon. If i...Show more →

I suggest you either try another D810 if you are or were having trouble focusing properly as the D800 series are very good bodies to shoot with. Unfortunately there really is no alternative if you shoot with Canon products. Even if you do get the rare body/lens combo that doesn't need MA to attain a proper in focus image, you are still stuck with stone age tech when compared to the Sony sensor found inside the Nikon bodies. I can't even imagine ever going back to such a system that I'm certain you are apparently happy with.

Kind of curious though as to why you feel the need to comment in a Nikon thread about the now ancient and crippled Canon sensor, in comparison anyway to the better sensors found in the D800 series. Maybe Canon will get it right next time though........................................

May 25, 2015 at 11:35 AM

CanadaMark
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · D800 still has the best skin tones SOOC

JonChard wrote:
Thank you for that. What i miss most from Canon is the next to zero purple fringing (apart from the 85 1.2), and the SPOT AF i.e. instead of 4% focus spot 2 % focus spot which absolutely did nail eye focus and not eye lashes ... my experience has been the opposite im afraid. I still nail focus 90% of the time with the 5dmk3 but miss more on nikon ESPECIALLY at the smaller apertures. My other major hate of the Nikon is its inability to allow me to fire off a shot compare dwith the canon. If i...Show more →

On your D810 try this (if you haven't already):

- Set custom setting A3 to OFF. This is the most important one, and default is ON in every Nikon body unfortunately
- Use AF-C all the time (helps adjust for minute movements, either from you or the subject)
- AF-C priority selection to "release" (custom setting A1)
- Single point AF

If you still can't get 3-4 shots off per second just by pressing the button manually, and if your D810 and 70-200VR II is still getting "annihilated" by the 135/2L in similar conditions when compared on an equal playing field, then I would think something is probably wrong with you D810. I do not experience any of these issues with my D810 or 70-200/2.8 VR II.

Also keep in mind if you are viewing the images side by side and judging sharpness on your monitor, if the Canon image is at 100% the D810 image should be around 60% magnification for a fair comparison. If you view them both at 100% pixel level, then yes you will probably need to watch your technique a bit more on the D810 for a flawless shot since it has more than 60% greater resolution and much higher pixel density.

Also, sensor type has very little to do with image sharpness. It is almost entirely the lens, AF system, and technique that determine that.

Hope that helps.

May 25, 2015 at 12:14 PM

trenchmonkey
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · D800 still has the best skin tones SOOC

Nice of you to help the troll, Mark. Methinks he'd rather spew his Canon fanboyisms
here, than post something of merit. Noobs need only view the gear specific threads
ie. Official Nikon D810 Image thread, to realize they're the problem...not the body.

May 25, 2015 at 02:55 PM

JonChard
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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · D800 still has the best skin tones SOOC

Wow i'm called the troll when it all started from this comment:
"News flash: your sensors pale by comparison, so "buh-bye"" - WTF is this if not trolling - and yes i own BOTH systems so i also own the really good sensor too!?

I'm not a troll, i just offer a view from the other side and think its a pretty stupid comment to say that best skin rendering is from a particular camera ... when there are an infinite number of other factors to consider which i have seen and experienced.

For those who think i trolled i apologise upfront before it gets messy.

CanadaMark, thanks for the constructive comments. A3 is to do with focus lock. If you do not ascertain focus lock, i would assume that with this setting off it simply allows the camera to take an out of focus shot prior to focus confirmation. My point is that the canon didn't need to switch this off in order to feel ultimately responsive.

I'm going to set out an example and see if you guys follow this. It isn't easy for me to put in to words so i apologise upfront for any lack of clarity.

Lets take an example of critical eye focus up close MFD with say 70-200 @ 200mm. In my experience, when i set AF-C mode and aim at eye, it shuffles slightly front / back / front / back as subject, or I, moves ever so slightly. If i attempt to capture the shot, i will usually get 50% in critical focus and 50% out of focus. When i do the same in the world of canon, i tend to acquire focus and take the shot as one single button press using the guaranteeed focus acquisition confirmation to ensure as i press i have got the shot. When i use this mechanism on my D810, somtimes its fires sometimes it doesn't! And i know its all related to custom seting A3. My keeper rate with the shoot through single button press on 5dmkiii was about 90%.

Keeper rate to me is seeing the reflection in the eyes being as sharp as an actual photo of the surroundings - this is CRITICAL sharpness and it isn't always so easy to obtain even at 1/1000 on a tripod - the micro adjustments taking place on the AF-C often destroy this for me which is why i'm generally a fan of AF-S and pressing through with confirmation as fast as possible to avoid the small AF change.

And guys, this becomes even more critical when shooting at 1.4 ... and especially at 1.2! The most challenging of subjects being KIFULA .... (Kids in flight using large apertures!) When i have previously shot static subjects close quarters at 1.2, i have seen instances where the bottom eyelashes are in focus and the eyeball is out of focus!! Hence the mention of canons smaller spot AF points which i truly believe are critical when using very large apertures! Otherwise its pretty much fluke focusing when the focus spot pretty much covers the entire eyeball or more ...

trenchmonkey, i'm not a canon fanboi, im a fan of systems that work WELL. And all i want to achieve is to get the best from my D810. I don't earn money from my hobby, but i bet i'm just as critical of the tools i use and their abilities than most people that are making money from their kit.

If anyone else has suggestions then i'm all ears and open to trying all. CanadaMark i will set that for my next outing and try to retrain myself and see how it works out.

May 25, 2015 at 04:37 PM

AMaji
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · D800 still has the best skin tones SOOC

JonChard wrote:
Wow i'm called the troll when it all started from this comment....

It is a trollish comment when it hijacks the thread and diverts it from the original post and you have managed to do that.

May 25, 2015 at 10:09 PM

JonChard
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · D800 still has the best skin tones SOOC

Thats a fair point. Sorry. It should have been its own thread really.

May 26, 2015 at 12:54 AM

AMaji
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p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · D800 still has the best skin tones SOOC

JonChard wrote:
Thats a fair point. Sorry. It should have been its own thread really.

I think this topic has run its course. Too bad it got diverted but it is all part of posting on internet forums. You are not a troll but we all at times make those posts, myself included.

As for skin tones from the D800, I need to tell a little story. I was in Kyoto, Japan with my D800 a few months after it was released. It was really a hot commodity at that times and I was surprised that I was asked about the camera quite a few times. My wife was the translator for most cases. Anyway, at a shrine complex, there was movie shoot going on. We just stood there watching it when a Japanese gentleman walks up and starts talking to me about the D800. He tells me that he is a professional fashion photographer in Japan and recently started using the D800. He told me that he loves the skin tones that he is getting SOOC. He said that Nikon surprised him with that! I have also shot along side a professional photographer, a wedding formal in Japan. The tones SOOC was great. In fact, the groom's mom was very happy when I showed the pictures and she just had me copy the jpgs in to her computer. I offered to process the raws and send them to her later, but she was so happy with the jpgs that she wanted them right away to distribute. It was quite a compliment to me

Thank you for reading my story. I really think the D800 skin tones SOOC are quite good.

May 26, 2015 at 09:43 AM

JonChard
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p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · D800 still has the best skin tones SOOC

I like real life stories, very interesting. Was the wedding photog using natural light or flash? So how much does the D810 differ from the D800 in regards to skin tones?

May 26, 2015 at 01:35 PM

AMaji
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p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · D800 still has the best skin tones SOOC

JonChard,

It was shot in natural light with fill flash sometimes. The photo shoot in the traditional Japanese wedding dress was done in the Gion District of Kyoto during the Cherry Blossom season. The pro photographer really knew the locations so that helped. He used a Canon 5D3, and mostly a Canon 70-200 and used a fill flash sometimes.

I don't have a D810 to know the differences. Perhaps people over here who really know how to use their cameras will tell us the differences. There are hacks over here who claim to be pros but I really have my doubts if they know how to use their equipment properly. You will see them complaining but then I have learned to just ignore their posts. I do not claim to be a master, but I can figure out who knows their stuff and who doesn't from examples and/or comments they post.

By the way, TrenchMonkey who was upset at your comment, is a real pro. He was a trenching contractor who is now a pro photographer. I used his so called monkey settings on my D800 for better skin tones. He only shoots Raw and sells his pictures SOOC. Look at some of his examples and you will see why he gets paid

Maji

May 26, 2015 at 01:48 PM

CanadaMark
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p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · D800 still has the best skin tones SOOC

JonChard wrote:

CanadaMark, thanks for the constructive comments. A3 is to do with focus lock. If you do not ascertain focus lock, i would assume that with this setting off it simply allows the camera to take an out of focus shot prior to focus confirmation. My point is that the canon didn't need to switch this off in order to feel ultimately responsive.

A3 is not focus lock, it is focus tracking with "lock-on". What this does is change the speed at which the camera responds to changes in distance between you and the subject. You can purposely introduce a delay, which it defaults to, to help keep focus on your subject should it move behind an obstruction while tracking it. If you want the best and fastest response from your AF system in the vast majority of situations, you want this OFF. This setting has it's place, but most of the time it is not needed at all.

The release priority (which a separate setting) will let you take an out of focus shot, yes, but a shot that is 95% in focus is obviously better than no shot at all. I would never leave it on focus priority personally, and the D810 has no problem nailing petty well every shot provided I'm doing my part. Also, what the camera determines to be "in focus" is not always gospel, regardless of brand - I would rather be the judge of that and eliminate the possibility of missing a key moment because the camera doesn't think it's quite 100% in focus. That is why I would leave it on release priority. If you want, you can set it to "Focus + Release" which keeps it on focus priority, but with less strict conditions.

What one manufacturer uses as default settings vs. another is entirely matter of personal taste rather than an advantage or disadvantage. Everyone should be taking the time to set up any camera they buy to work best with their preferences. It's just a camera setting, and takes 2 seconds to change, who cares what the default is.

I have shot with a 5DM3, and IMHO it is not quite up to par with a properly set up D810 AF. If you can't at least match what you're getting with your 5DM3 in terms of AF performance, there is very likely a problem with your camera body, lens, or settings.

May 26, 2015 at 04:02 PM

JonChard
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p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · D800 still has the best skin tones SOOC

Thank you all for your comments and additions. I looked at trenchmonkeys work and immediately realised he was better than average! (that is a compliment!) I adored wedding photography for years, thinking i'll do that one day! But i don't have the balls - its somebody else's day in your hands

CanadaMark, much appreciate your comments and i will try this next opportunity. Do you have links to any setup guides you could pm maybe? Maybe i'm missing more?!

May 26, 2015 at 05:20 PM

elkhornsun
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p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · D800 still has the best skin tones SOOC

There is something wrong with your camera settings. The image of the woman has the plastic looking skin that I used to see with the original Canon 5D at ultra high ISO settings where the camera noise reduction was compressing the heck out of the tonal range of people's skin. I would not be at all happy with a picture like that shown if it is truly representative of the image quality you are getting with the camera.

May 28, 2015 at 02:02 PM

JonChard
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p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · D800 still has the best skin tones SOOC

Are we all assuming everyone has similarly a calibrated monitors and also edited these photos from similarly calibrated monitors?

Elkhornsun, who's picture are you referring to?

Jun 02, 2015 at 01:14 PM

nextelbuddy
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p.4 #15 · p.4 #15 · D800 still has the best skin tones SOOC

eSchwab wrote:
I waited a long time to jump onto the D800. I picked it because I always shoot with a backup card in camera and up until then it was only the large bodies with the built in grip. I hesitated on the D800 because of the large file size. It turns out it was a non-issue and wished I had grabbed one when they first came out.
Anyways, when I first get a new camera I try to take a bunch of photos of different skin types in different lighting and get the right setting for all of them. D800 is...Show more →

I love this curve on my d800e, though i still shoot Raw, I really love the jpeg previews.. it gets me super pumped to edit the images and also it gives me a great idea what I want to match.

I really wish I could get this same curve for the D700. I want to shoot with a D700/D800e with either a 35 or 58mm lens. tape up the view finder, shoot at 1000 ISO or higher for grain and then try to shoot film style relying only on meter readings and then shooting jpeg.

Jul 24, 2015 at 10:49 PM

eSchwab
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p.4 #16 · p.4 #16 · D800 still has the best skin tones SOOC

nextelbuddy wrote:
I love this curve on my d800e, though i still shoot Raw, I really love the jpeg previews.. it gets me super pumped to edit the images and also it gives me a great idea what I want to match.

I really wish I could get this same curve for the D700. I want to shoot with a D700/D800e with either a 35 or 58mm lens. tape up the view finder, shoot at 1000 ISO or higher for grain and then try to shoot film style relying only on meter readings and then shooting jpeg.

That's what I ended up doing too Nextel. A lot of times I would bring an image into lightroom and play around with it and in the end find that I actually ended up liking the original Jpeg version better. That's never been the case with any digital camera I've ever owned. I've been playing around with the D750 and still haven't gotten close to matching the color as well as the D800.

Jul 27, 2015 at 07:23 AM

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