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Archive 2014 · Would you be annoyed with Second Photographer?

  
 
SGallant
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · Would you be annoyed with Second Photographer?


NYstyles wrote:
Growing and doing something completely different are two different things. That was not growth that was I'll do what I want and to bad for you... His response is enough for me not to work with them again, the style change is moot at this point.

Would you really tolerate that kind of attitude from an employee, and again would you do this to a primary that hired you? You wouldnt... Do you really think its worth talking it out with such a crap attitude? Do you really think LB taking a couple days to stew over this will change the
...Show more

His responses are being provided to you in a specific context and you are taking that context at face value without the thought of trying to understand for yourself. As for your point about employers, that's why companies have HR departments so the employee can dispute managers that are incapable of seeing things any other way than their own. You are right, she is the owner and absolutely has the final say. And if the person is genuinely being as she is taking it, I believe him to be wrong. But as I continue to read this thread, and the OPs responses, it continues to reinforce my belief the OP took statements as they were not intended.




Oct 17, 2014 at 03:39 PM
Littleguy
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · Would you be annoyed with Second Photographer?


I am not sure what purpose you wanted to accomplish with your OP.

You knew the second shooter was a member here.
You knew that a private conversation would have been better from a professional point of view.
You appear to have decided to stop working with this second shooter already from the post below.

I get it - you are the boss and you can hire and fire who ever you want but why the OP - were you just rounding up posse for a lynching?

LBrimhallPhoto wrote:
Sorry to hear you are in the hospital. I certainly hope you're okay. I agree, from a professional standpoint, a simple conversation would have the potential to hopefully fix things if I wanted to keep working with the person. I appreciated all the feedback from you and everyone on this thread.





Oct 17, 2014 at 04:04 PM
amonline
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · Would you be annoyed with Second Photographer?


Looks like it's been said, but this is purely about communication.

FWIW, I also shoot in BW sometimes. (it's a valid action) I won't do it on a wedding day, but I have done it on personal ventures for the exact same reason. I wouldn't fault him for it; but if it makes workflow worse, then I'd tell him.



Oct 17, 2014 at 04:15 PM
LBrimhallPhoto
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · Would you be annoyed with Second Photographer?


Everyone keeps talking about a private conversation, as if we never had one. I DID address these issues with him privately at first and what I shared here were the responses to that, which I wanted feedback as to whether others found them appropriate. No need to be dramatic talking about lynching etc. I obviously took the courtesy to not name him BECAUSE he is a member here, sigh. ETA: this thread is exhausting. I appreciate the feedback from everyone but I think I'm over it now.


Oct 17, 2014 at 04:16 PM
popinvasion
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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · Would you be annoyed with Second Photographer?


LBrimhallPhoto wrote:
Everyone keeps talking about a private conversation, as if we never had one. I DID address these issues with him privately at first and what I shared here were the responses to that, which I wanted feedback as to whether others found them appropriate. No need to be dramatic talking about lynching etc. I obviously took the courtesy to not name him BECAUSE he is a member here, sigh. ETA: this thread is exhausting. I appreciate the feedback from everyone but I think I'm over it now.


His responses certainly sound rude and immature but we only have your interpretation of the events. As for your grievances they IMO seem a bit nit picky and minor inconveniences at most which with proper communication could find a reasonable resolution one would expect. Have we become fast food chains where culling and editing are now too much work?



Oct 17, 2014 at 04:29 PM
jmraso
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · Would you be annoyed with Second Photographer?


Yes, that is why not having your best day doing a wedding translates in many more hours in the computer !!!

Again: where is the Second OP please show up !!! we deserve it !!😊
popinvasion wrote:
Have we become fast food chains where culling and editing are now too much work?




Oct 18, 2014 at 03:00 AM
sgtbueno
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · Would you be annoyed with Second Photographer?


I just don't get why bring this topic here, just talk to him and I'll bet that in just 5 minutes you'll accomplish more than posting here.

Best of luck to you and your baby. Congrats!



Oct 18, 2014 at 10:22 AM
JakAHearts
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p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · Would you be annoyed with Second Photographer?


I just want to add that if your conversation took place through chat or text, that was a huge mistake.

"Why did you shoot in all black and white?"
"Because you dont need to see the color."

You can read that so many different way depending on your current attitude or thoughts. Its like this commercial -

" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Text miscommunication



Oct 20, 2014 at 03:16 PM
ricardovaste
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p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · Would you be annoyed with Second Photographer?


sgtbueno wrote:
I just don't get why bring this topic here, just talk to him and I'll bet that in just 5 minutes you'll accomplish more than posting here.


I certainly wish I'd knew this was between two FMers before commenting. I just assumed it was some random local person... :|



Oct 20, 2014 at 04:58 PM
MollyYoung
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p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · Would you be annoyed with Second Photographer?


Who needs soap operas when you have this thread.
glorious.



Oct 22, 2014 at 02:59 PM
delsol9400
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p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · Would you be annoyed with Second Photographer?


Personally, I think the "second shooter" is over rated. I only use an assistant to lug my gear around and hold my light. Unless the guys are getting ready in some remote location, or the bride is concerned with excessive detail shots of reception setup I don't even use one. On an 8 hour day I deliver between 650 - 750 images.


Oct 22, 2014 at 09:21 PM
eephoto
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p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · Would you be annoyed with Second Photographer?


Sorry the conversation with your 2nd didn't go well...but I definitely would ask him if he feels he's struggling to nail exposure etc...and just reiterate your contract that he must shoot in colour for your weddings. I honestly don't think overshooting should be a problem. I always shot more then my primary when I was 2nd shooting. She loved it...she would sit down and I would shoot away! Made me proud actually that she had that much faith in me.

Plus I'm a workhorse, I personally whether 2nd or primary shooting am always photographing something. BUT having said that...I'm sure if I suddenly changed and started shooting half of the images my primary was used to getting she may have questioned me too and I doubt my answer would have been "cause I feel like it" or something like that. I would hope I would give a more to the point answer with the almost obligatory "did I do something wrong" type question so that she would know I do care about our working relationship.

Keep in mind, he could have been having a bad day...If he's a good 2nd and you have a good working relationship, try approaching him again. See how it pans out. Always give a 2nd chance...3rd and 4th? well that's up to you...



Oct 28, 2014 at 09:06 PM
Focus Locus
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p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · Would you be annoyed with Second Photographer?


LBrimhallPhoto wrote:
"Next time the person in question has something to say in his defense, he can come on here and say it himself instead of you doing it for him please."


Whoa. I had followed your points up 'til here. This is the moment where I began to empathize with your second shooter. Your response above is an unfathomable retort to a disinterested third party forum member who took time out of their day to provide the very feedback you specifically requested in your original post, where you asked:

LBrimhallPhoto wrote:
"I'm not sure if I'm over reacting. Would anyone else be upset by these things or his reactions to me addressing them? Just trying to get some perspective. "


So someone gives you some perspective, and you bite their head off? Hmmm....

That was a stark reminder that there is usually two sides to every story, which made me also wonder what, from the "perspective" of a second shooter, might that other side be?

LBrimhallPhoto wrote:
"He officially took more photos than I did."


You can't buy a person's energy. You can't purchase a person's passion. You can pay them. You can pay them well. But energy is engaged, not bought. Passion is pursued, not paid for. How often in life have we seen underpaid people move mountains, and over paid people move from the water cooler to their smoke break... slowly. The real fire in the belly, where full engagement is energized, is fueled by other, less tangible motivations. For your second shooter, you seem to suspect that one of those motivations might be...

LBrimhallPhoto wrote:
"He seems more concerned about getting shots that might win him awards... if I had to wager it probably has to do with him getting a big head over winning a few awards recently."


You mentioned this several times. In fact, the quote immediately above is an amalgam of two different snipe(t)s of yours where you mention this, not praisingly, but almost resentfully... which can potentially be interpreted as envy. Yet even if true, and winning awards motivated him to work his butt off engaging all of his energies to produce the best captures possible... then you too become a winner, as you also admitted in a third post, on behalf of your clients. That extra effort that a photographer pushes her or himself to achieve often doesn't come from $600 a day vs $400 a day. It comes from the thrill of a sense of Accomplishment. Acknowledgment. Appreciation. A pat on the back. A compliment. Those motivating "awards" could just as easily and effectively come directly from you.





Nov 03, 2014 at 01:30 AM
Beni
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p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · Would you be annoyed with Second Photographer?


I'm rather amused by some of the suggestions. I don't know of many other businesses where an employee ignoring instruction and doing their own thing would be tolerated. I run 3 repro studios. From experience I have had to fall back on a simple formula. If an employee decides they know better and implements changes in procedure in a studio containing $100K of equipment and priceless historical artifacts belonging to museums and private collectors world wide, they get a single warning. Then they are gone. There are reasons for our rules and procedures which have been learnt through sweat, blood and a whole lot of money. We are very glad to hear suggestions which have often been implemented however there is no room whatsoever for employees to change the rules without permission or to take it on themselves to do things differently. Mistakes or lack of communication is one thing. Deliberately deciding to ignore the rules of an employer and do things your own way cannot be tolerated where clients are concerned, where your business is concerned. In our case, where hundreds of thousands of dollars are concerned.

In this case the 2nd photographer seems to be ignoring your instructions? It is your business and your time. Time is worth money. You have to decide whether an employee who will not take instruction is worth your money. I'd say move on before you find out what else they have decided to ignore that you will only find out after a wedding where clients are relying on your business name for a once in a lifetime event on which your reputation and livelyhood is riding. I would prize reliability over maverick brilliance when I need to know that I will have results each and every time and there is no do over.



Nov 03, 2014 at 11:14 AM
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