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Archive 2014 · Dummy questions on 7D2

  
 
kvolk
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Dummy questions on 7D2


I'm no real photographer. Just a guy with a camera currently shooting the 60D and interested in the 7D2 for wildlife. I have never sold an image and have no interest in doing so. I have been following the ongoing discussions with interest. I don't understand a lot of the techno speak going on. I tried to buy "Image Quality for Dummies" but Amazon didn't have it in stock. Humor me with my questions. I see some JPEGs from the 7D2 which to me are rather amazing at high ISOs. Then I read that people are predicting ISO performance that is improved one stop or less over the 70D. Is this because the in-camera noise reduction is so good on the JPEGs? If so does that suggest that the RAW images will clean up just as well? Currently I try to stay 500 or below on wildlife in dim light but that just doesn't cut it when trying to shoot a hawk just taking off from a fence post in dim light or anything else that is moving. I will probably buy the 7D2 for the focusing system and burst rate but I'm really interested in high ISOs as well. For me the reduced noise that I have seen at high ISOs is plenty good. Why would the RAW files not be just as good? Thanks for any help.


Oct 15, 2014 at 08:00 AM
Paul Mo
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Dummy questions on 7D2


kvolk wrote:
Why would the RAW files not be just as good?


They will be better, as people come to grips with the camera and develop optimal processing, and updates (firmware, raw converters) with the passage of time.




Edited on Oct 15, 2014 at 08:06 AM · View previous versions



Oct 15, 2014 at 08:05 AM
lowa2
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Dummy questions on 7D2


The RAW files wont be as good simply because there is no processing done to them. The final output of a raw file is directly related to your skills in Photoshop or whatever program you are using.

The newer JPEG engines are getting better and better so while they may look great at web size, printing and/or large size files may look a whole lot different.

Are you shooting RAW or JPEG now?



Oct 15, 2014 at 08:05 AM
dgdg
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Dummy questions on 7D2


Wait for reviews and testing after its release. Right now you are seeing mostly pre-release marketing from sponsored photographers and a lot of excited discussions. It's all pie in the sky until it comes out.

David



Oct 15, 2014 at 08:06 AM
msalvetti
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Dummy questions on 7D2


But I think things are looking good. The main debate is whether the image quality (high ISO and dynamic range) will be better than the 70D or the 1DMkIV. Romy (Liquidstone) seems to have an early opinion that the image quality is better than the 7D.

The 7DII has so many other features over the 60D, 70D, and 7D that I suspect it will be a no brainer to upgrade from one of those cameras to the 7DII. It's those of us with a 1DMkIV that aren't sure about the benefits of upgrading.

Mark



Oct 15, 2014 at 08:26 AM
kvolk
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Dummy questions on 7D2


I shoot RAW on everything but shoot a low quality JPEG along with it to help me keep track of files. I was shooting all landscape until I bought the Tamron 150-600. I have been having a lot of fun with that lens.
Thanks for the replies.



Oct 15, 2014 at 08:41 AM
Methodical
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Dummy questions on 7D2


msalvetti wrote:
...It's those of us with a 1DMkIV that aren't sure about the benefits of upgrading.

Mark


Or someone like me that has the 1D4, but who wants to go back to 1.6 for wildlife photography and sports, too. I had a 50D, but was not happy with it and this will get me back that sweet spot. So, no upgrade, just another tool in my arsenal (1x, 1.3x and 1.6x). I'm convinced from what I've seen, so I've already pre-ordered "The II"

Al




Oct 15, 2014 at 09:01 AM
Scott Stoness
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Dummy questions on 7D2


kvolk:

I doubt that the 7d2 raw will be more than 1 stop better than the 60d. Most of the gain in low light is as a result of better raw or jpg processing.

I expect that the ISO performance will be about a stop. So if you were only happy at iso 500 or below, maybe you might push it to 1000 or 1250.

That said:
1) With good light (diffused, and with the light behind me) and proper exposure, I have got pictures I am happy with to iso3200 on 7d. I comportably go to iso 1250. Lighting and exposure is critical.
2) The 7d2 will have a burst of 31 raw, 5s clear, 10fps, and much better focus delivery than you current camera. If you shoot animals in motion, this is a great add compared to 60d

If you really want to shoot at high iso though, either buy 5diii (great focus, ff, 2 stops better, 6fps) or 1dx (12fps, 2 stops better). Bigger pixels count.

I am buying the 7d2 for reach and 10fps; and modest improvement as compared to my 7d. But I expect that my 5diii will continue to be my go to camera except when reach limited. One of the challenges of 7d was that it had noisy iq that reqired processing. I am hoping this is solved in 7d2.

Perhaps I will be pleasantly surprised with the iso performance of 7d2 but I doubt it. Even the Nikons (sony) do not perform much better at high iso and the best nikon crop is not much better than 7d at higher iso.



Oct 15, 2014 at 09:26 AM
surf monkey
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Dummy questions on 7D2


kvolk wrote:
I see some JPEGs from the 7D2 which to me are rather amazing at high ISOs. Then I read that people are predicting ISO performance that is improved one stop or less over the 70D. Is this because the in-camera noise reduction is so good on the JPEGs? If so does that suggest that the RAW images will clean up just as well?
For me the reduced noise that I have seen at high ISOs is plenty good. Why would the RAW files not be just as good?


What it sounds like there are a few possible explanations for your perception that the 7D2's high ISO performance is "so good."
1) It really is much better than other Canon APS-C sensors. Not likely.
2) It is a quite a better, around 1-stop for the sensor, and in-camera processing makes it much better.
3) It is just a bit better, with a tweak in the sensor over the 70D, and the images posted thus far are somewhat misleading for the uninitiated.
4) There is also the very likely possibility that you're not getting the most out of your current 60D and you're comparing your images to those posted for the 7D2.

If you prefer to go as high as ISO500, then you're either very picky about noise or you're not getting the most out of your in-camera JPEGs or processed RAWs.
You should get acceptable ISO1600 images, and ISO800 should be good except for very large prints.
Maybe you have too much sharpness and contrast in your in-camera settings?

Go to this site to see how the current DSLRs stack up in terms of noise. You might be surprised.
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/studio-compare?utm_campaign=internal-link&utm_source=mainmenu&utm_medium=text&ref=mainmenu#baseDir=%2Freviews_data&cameraDataSubdir=boxshot&indexFileName=boxshotindex.xml&presetsFileName=boxshotpresets.xml&showDescriptions=false&headerTitle=Studio%20scene&headerSubTitle=Standard%20studio%20scene%20comparison&masterCamera=canon_eos60d&masterSample=img_0234&slotsCount=4&slot0Camera=canon_eos60d&slot0Sample=img_0234&slot0DisableCameraSelection=true&slot0DisableSampleSelection=true&slot0LinkWithMaster=true&slot1Camera=canon_eos600d&slot1Sample=img_6879&slot2Camera=canon_eos1dmkiv&slot2Sample=canon1d4_iso1600&slot3Camera=canon_eos5dmkiii&slot3Sample=5d3_5213&x=-0.7938513742789282&y=-0.8666135963668194



Oct 15, 2014 at 10:03 AM
Rusty1
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Dummy questions on 7D2


Scott Stoness wrote:
kvolk:

I doubt that the 7d2 raw will be more than 1 stop better than the 60d. Most of the gain in low light is as a result of better raw or jpg processing.

I expect that the ISO performance will be about a stop. So if you were only happy at iso 500 or below, maybe you might push it to 1000 or 1250.

That said:
1) With good light (diffused, and with the light behind me) and proper exposure, I have got pictures I am happy with to iso3200 on 7d. I comportably go to iso 1250. Lighting and exposure
...Show more

Long time love/hate relationship here with the 7D. Agree proper exposure critical to noise in these file. Next for me it came to a lot of experimenting with later versions of ACR to get the best files.

Good news 7D2 improved metering is taughted (we shall see) and RAW files are said to be similar to 70D. The 70D RAW files need a whole lot less effort in ACR to maximize.

Files should be a nice step up from 7D, not so much from 70D/D7100.

I'm cautiously optimistic.



Oct 15, 2014 at 01:35 PM
jcunwired
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Dummy questions on 7D2


Scott Stoness wrote:
kvolk:

I doubt that the 7d2 raw will be more than 1 stop better than the 60d. Most of the gain in low light is as a result of better raw or jpg processing.


What kind of in-camera processing is performed on raw files?



Oct 15, 2014 at 02:28 PM
Imagemaster
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Dummy questions on 7D2


kvolk wrote:
Currently I try to stay 500 or below on wildlife in dim light but that just doesn't cut it when trying to shoot a hawk just taking off from a fence post in dim light or anything else that is moving.


Don't know what your problem is with shooting over ISO 500.

Canon bodies have been able to shoot over that for a number of years with good results:







Oct 15, 2014 at 03:17 PM
TMaG82
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Dummy questions on 7D2


Some of it can be attributed to the existing cameras out there being in great hands. Similar to how you see some people buy a camera, complain that it doesn't look like the photos that are out there online, and rant about it before they return it to buy the next camera. Yes JPEGs are getting better by the generation but at the end of the day whose behind the camera taking the pictures has a big influence on the end result.


Oct 15, 2014 at 03:54 PM
Scott Stoness
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Dummy questions on 7D2


jcunwired wrote:
What kind of in-camera processing is performed on raw files?


In theory none. Raw is raw. I was referring to improvements in raw converters.




Oct 15, 2014 at 05:16 PM





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