Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Photo Critique | Join Upload & Sell

  

Archive 2014 · School District photo comp. help please

  
 
smallrewards
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · School District photo comp. help please


Hi, I am a 4th grade teacher. Our school district has a photography comp. every year, just a small thing. Last year was my first year there and I wont 1st place, really want to do it again.
I have several pictures to choose from, but for a variety of reasons this following one just really touches me and feels like it has tremendous potential. If you could...

-Color or bw?
-Clarity and vibrance hurting the image?
-How do i make the shadows really pop and enhance the lake?
-If color, what wb and how much saturation?
-Other tips...i just recently started looking at it.

Original
original by bmglen, on Flickr

Edit 1
a-9710 by bmglen, on Flickr

Edit 2
a-9710-2 by bmglen, on Flickr



Oct 11, 2014 at 11:57 PM
RustyBug
Online
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · School District photo comp. help please


Congrats on your former win and welcome to the PC Forum.

Your questions invoke several thoughts for me.

The first is that contrast is a driving aspect of what captures attention. Contrast (fundamentally applied definition) is simply a magnitude of difference. We can have contrast in tonal or luminance value, contrast in hue or color value, contrast in saturation value (HSL).

Additionally, we can have contrast in size, shape and texture or pattern and direction as well as sharpness and other attributes. To me, the thing that makes an image "pop" is its contrast ... which is not to simply suggest we ratchet up the contrast slider and call it a day.

In that regard, your last image has more "pop" to me. I see this as a multi-aspect of contrast, to wit:

Color contrast between the warm ground vs. the cool sky
Tonal contrast between the trees vs. lake mist
Tonal contrast between the tree shadow vs. grass vs. barren/sidewalk
Line direction contrast between tree trunk vs. sidewalk
Saturation contrast between neutral vs. non neutral areas

These are a few of the contrasting elements for me.

Conversely, a toning will reduce contrast which can be a tool for mood establishment. A lack of contrast can be the opposite of the natural "high alert" induced by contrast and thus present a more relaxed message. Decisions @ contrast (all forms) should align to your decision @ message that you want to convey and could include aspects of both increased contrast and reduced contrast. So to help decide what we want to change about the original capture, we first ask what is it we want it to say when we are finished with it.

Caveat ... competition & judging ... some judges are influenced by the amount of contrast that catches their eye, while others judge on the merits of ones control and use of such. i.e. not everyone is attuned to crafting a message, some prefer it to simply be yelled at them. For that, I (personally) don't focus on what I think will help me win, but rather what will help me convey my intended message, but that's just me. Too hard (impossible) to know how well a judge can differentiate between finesse and graphic levels of contrast (box of 8 vs. box of 64 vs. blend your own). Sometimes a judge will like what he sees simply because it is different (historical contrast) from what he has seen before.

Going off of your last one (edit 2) ... I see three directions to take it:

Color as presented
Color, but with an overall/partial warming tone (not the bluish above) to convey more morning light / time of day / mood.
B&W

That probably isn't much help, but maybe in context with the others, it will strike a chord to yield a direction that you want to take it ... aligned to your goals for the image @ 1) convey a message or 2) win a competition ... as these two goals aren't always as harmonious as one would hope/expect/assume them to be.

Here's a set of variants of play ... as always S&P to taste.
Would a judge like any of these ... who knows? But, as you look at them, take note of how they vary in the ability to 1) catch your attention, and 2) the different mood they convey for you ... or not at all.

The direction to take an image is of course a highly subjective decision @ your image, your call, but imo I prefer to know why I'm taking an image toward a direction relative to the message that I want to convey, rather than guessing at what someone else might like. My parting .02 on the matter is this ... for an unknown/general audience, contrast seems to be a venerable favorite. Yet, for all audiences, there will also be variance in how it is received compared to how it contrasts (that word again) with the other entries.

GL & HTH
















Edited on Oct 13, 2014 at 11:26 AM · View previous versions



Oct 12, 2014 at 05:21 AM
ben egbert
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · School District photo comp. help please


Kent has already explained more than I could. I also see he cloned out the flare I was going to mention at lower right center.

I like your last best.

Most of us here have decades of Photoshop with various levels of skill and a multitude of methods. I personally prefer plug ins to do it yourself, although I do a lot of that too. But the way I would get shadow recovery is with the shadow highlight tool in Photoshop. It is also a surprisingly good way to add contrast which a casual use of SH can ruin with too much shadow recovery.

I typically do SH in Lab mode where I can avoid changes to color and just change illumination. I start with about 4 on the shadows, 12 on highlights. But the trick is in the midtone sliders. Adding contrast and decreasing lightness helps from getting a muddy image. I typically start with +10 on contrast and -5 on brightness.

The above works fine in RGB mode as well LAB is a mere refinement. Although the mid tone sliders have different names when color is present.



Oct 12, 2014 at 09:39 AM
FarmerJohn
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · School District photo comp. help please


Well, Kent gave you lots of great pointers. Nice post Kent!

I will add a few things. I like the mist, it's great subject/atmosphere add-on to the photo.

Nitpicky wise - cropping and cloning out the flare at the bottom is a good choice. Depending on your competition rules, cropping might be better than cloning
I also wish you had separation between the left-side tree and the branches coming in from out of frame left. Maybe you have a shot from a different angle?

As is - I think you could crop more off the bottom. I think the foreground is not very interesting (to me), unless you highlight the distinction between the tree shadow and the ground. I've done an edit here, i think somewhat over-the-top to illustrate my idea.

I did some very rough cloning, and a single luminosity mask (and rough brushing) in PS Elements to try to make the tree shadow stand out more. This is a very different view. As everyone else said, think about what *you* want.
(Also, think about what's allowed in the competition. Some competitions I've entered have clauses to vaguely limit the sorts of editing you can do. )

Also - nice shot! Lots of critiques/suggestions, but you captured a nice scene to start with.







Oct 12, 2014 at 10:33 AM
Bob Jarman
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · School District photo comp. help please


Think I'd go with #3 as is, for me the additional processing kills the atmosphere. Maybe crop a wee bit. Go with your intuition - served you well in the past

Also, are there rules? Sometimes competitions limit excessive alteration, composites, etc. to keep a level playing field. Were I a judge, I'd automatically DQ anything with obvious over-the-top PS work on general principle given the intended pool of applicants.

Bob



Oct 12, 2014 at 11:25 AM
RustyBug
Online
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · School District photo comp. help please


+1 @ use the PP to showcase the image/message, not the image to showcase the PP.


Oct 12, 2014 at 11:33 AM
beanpkk
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · School District photo comp. help please


+1 on using #3 as is.

keith



Oct 12, 2014 at 07:01 PM





FM Forums | Photo Critique | Join Upload & Sell

    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.