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Archive 2014 · 1D-X, 1Ds III, 5D III

  
 
EB-1
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · 1D-X, 1Ds III, 5D III


Years ago I used two 1Ds IIs and then later 2-3 1Ds IIIs for just about everything, including the wildlife. Due to the delay in the 200-400 I never got around to the 1D IV, but did pick up a pair of 5D IIIs later on. At higher ISOs the 5D III is nice and of course throughput is excellent, but the AF performance has left me wondering if a 1D-X wouldn't be better.

Obviously I'm not thrilled about the low MP of the 1D-X compared to the 1Ds III and 5D III, especially with a 500/4 IS that may need cropping. For 21/22 MP body users, how much hindrance is the lower resolution of the 1D-X to you for practical purposes? Is the IQ much improvement over the 5D III to otherwise compensate? Thanks.

EBH



Sep 28, 2014 at 01:37 PM
danski0224
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · 1D-X, 1Ds III, 5D III


As a hobbyist, I much prefer the 1DX files over the 5DIII files.

I have read several web discussions on this very question before plunking down the money, and the consensus seems to be that the only time you will see a difference is at low ISO.

As the ISO number goes up, the difference diminishes and eventually the X stomps the 5DIII.

A 1DX file at 12,000 ISO is useable right out of the camera.

1DX files have more malleability than 5DIII files, at least to me. Some say it's poppycock, but I see a difference.

Best answer would be to rent one and see. Some good deals on the X right now if you look. I didn't pay MSRP for mine.

If/when Canon releases the "high megapixel" body, I'm not so sure I could get one anyway$.



Sep 28, 2014 at 01:58 PM
PetKal
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · 1D-X, 1Ds III, 5D III


If AF of 5DMkIII causes you some concerns, I do not think that you'd find 1DX to be much different in that regard. I believe there is only one AF feature of significance which 1DX has and 5DMkIII doesn't: iTR AF.

Depending on what you shoot, iTR AF usefulness may range from "somewhat" to "none at all, I've turned it OFF".



Sep 28, 2014 at 03:48 PM
Kathy White
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · 1D-X, 1Ds III, 5D III


PetKal wrote:
If AF of 5DMkIII causes you some concerns, I do not think that you'd find 1DX to be much different in that regard. I believe there is only one AF feature of significance which 1DX has and 5DMkIII doesn't: iTR AF.

Depending on what you shoot, iTR AF usefulness may range from "somewhat" to "none at all, I've turned it OFF".


Good to know Peter, I've also wondered about the difference in AF between the 2 bodies. I just really prefer the smaller sized bodies.



Sep 28, 2014 at 04:36 PM
whumber
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · 1D-X, 1Ds III, 5D III


EB-1 wrote:
..., but the AF performance has left me wondering if a 1D-X wouldn't be better.


My experience is that the 1DX grabs focus noticeably faster (especially when you set Focus priority for Servo mode), handles fast moving targets better, and is way better at picking the right AF point if you use the iTR mode and the target has a unique color you can track. The 5D3 is no slouch though, especially with the newest lenses with the rotation sensor.



Sep 28, 2014 at 04:49 PM
PetKal
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · 1D-X, 1Ds III, 5D III


Kathy, I've never used 5DMkIII......therefore the above is just my understanding based on different Canon stuff I've read on that subject.


Sep 28, 2014 at 04:56 PM
Bones74
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · 1D-X, 1Ds III, 5D III


danski0224 wrote:
As a hobbyist, I much prefer the 1DX files over the 5DIII files.

I have read several web discussions on this very question before plunking down the money, and the consensus seems to be that the only time you will see a difference is at low ISO.

As the ISO number goes up, the difference diminishes and eventually the X stomps the 5DIII.

A 1DX file at 12,000 ISO is useable right out of the camera.

1DX files have more malleability than 5DIII files, at least to me. Some say it's poppycock, but I see a difference.

Best answer would be to rent one and
...Show more

I completely agree with you. I've spent a lot of time of time pixel peeping thousands of files from both cameras and as far as I'm concerned the 1DX files are overall noticeably superior from low (slightly better DR and shadow/highlight recovery) to high ISO. When it comes to wildlife in low light I'm happy to set the auto ISO upper limit to 25600 and just shoot. While the 5D3 is obviously capable of superb images I describe the 5D3 files as "fragile".



Sep 28, 2014 at 05:03 PM
PetKal
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · 1D-X, 1Ds III, 5D III


Bones74 wrote:
While the 5D3 is obviously capable of superb images I describe the 5D3 files as "fragile".


Stu, I wonder why is that so ? 5DMkIII has a bit higher pixel density of the imaging sensor than 1DX, so that one might see perhaps some "more depth" in 5DMkIII files.
How does that file "fragility" manifest itself to you ?

Edited on Sep 28, 2014 at 05:21 PM · View previous versions



Sep 28, 2014 at 05:17 PM
Gunzorro
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · 1D-X, 1Ds III, 5D III


Just a general observation I've found in the various 1D-series cameras vs. all others, including the 5D series: I use center AF point and they all (1D-series) seems to lock on more quickly than their contemporaries, with more reliability, and discretion (not being influenced by broken contrast areas near to the AF point).

I've used the 1DX a few times successfully for low ISO images, including twilight sandwich of two images, and despite its "only" having 18MP vs. 21MP on the 1Ds3, the images were comparable in quality, with perhaps a slight bias favoring the 1DX for sharpness and contrast. Still, the 1Ds3 provides slightly larger images, and as you know, they are wonderful. Just wanted to mention that you shouldn't fear the imaging being inferior because of the 18MP sensor.

I found as a general use camera, the 1DX has better processing speed and faster buffer than the 1Ds3. LCD is considerably better for review and LV. Plus, although it doesn't matter to many on this forum, but it has very good video.

Then there are all the other 1DX features that I don't use, that appeal to other photographers, like the high ISO and action shooting.

Personally, if it had double the MP and half the FPS, it would probably be a near perfect camera for me. So I continue to happily use the 1Ds3 and wait.

For a top Canon general use camera, and you aren't interested in a 5D3, I'd say your choice is 1DX or 1Ds3 (no disrespect intended to the 5D3!).

Edited on Sep 28, 2014 at 05:21 PM · View previous versions



Sep 28, 2014 at 05:17 PM
PetKal
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · 1D-X, 1Ds III, 5D III


Jim, that's one good looking dood on your new avatar. Who is he, if I may ask ?


Sep 28, 2014 at 05:20 PM
Gunzorro
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · 1D-X, 1Ds III, 5D III


PetKal wrote:
Jim, that's one good looking dood on your new avatar. Who is he, if I may ask ?


A highly paid international (hand) model I'm acquainted with!



Sep 28, 2014 at 05:22 PM
danski0224
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · 1D-X, 1Ds III, 5D III


For Bones-

For whatever reason, the 1DX seems to underexpose compared to the 5DIII, so I have dialed in a little bit of exposure compensation.

Slightly underexposed 1DX images just come back 100% in DPP easily, and I have not tried the 4.0 version yet. I have noticed this with any 1 series camera- even an original 1D I recently picked up.

5DII and 5DIII files fall apart quickly unless the exposure is spot on or really close. I'm not referring to pushing shadows to daylight.

1 series noise cleans up a whole lot better, too. Again, don't know why, but there must be something in the RAW code that is different.

Viewfinder is clearer on the 1 DX vs 5DIII and your nose isn't smashed on the back of the camera using the viewfinder.

Interchangeable focus screens on the X vs 5DIII.

White balance (auto) on the X is almost always spot on.

5DIII has Magic Lantern and 1 series does not- about the only thing besides the silent shutter I can think of that would tip the scales if you use it.

If the budget is there and the camera size isn't an issue, I'd go 1DX any day of the week over 5DIII- and I do not use 50% of the capabilities of either.

At full MSRP of the X, I'd probably choose a 1DSIII in good light for what I do, but I have been amazed with the ISO capabilities of the 1DX. At ~$4,700 USD for a 1DX now... easy choice.

Edited on Sep 28, 2014 at 05:27 PM · View previous versions



Sep 28, 2014 at 05:22 PM
Gunzorro
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · 1D-X, 1Ds III, 5D III


danski0224 wrote:
For whatever reason, the 1DX seems to underexpose compared to the 5DIII, so I have dialed in a little bit of exposure compensation.

Slightly underexposed 1DX images just come back 100% in DPP easily, and I have not tried the 4.0 version yet. I have noticed this with any 1 series camera- even an original 1D I recently picked up.

5DII and 5DIII files fall apart quickly unless the exposure is spot on or really close. I'm not referring to pushing shadows to daylight.

1 series noise cleans up a whole lot better, too. Again, don't know why, but there must be something
...Show more

More good personal observations!



Sep 28, 2014 at 05:26 PM
danski0224
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · 1D-X, 1Ds III, 5D III


PetKal wrote:
Stu, I wonder why is that so ? 5DMkIII has a bit higher pixel density of the imaging sensor than 1DX, so that one might see perhaps some "more depth" in 5DMkIII files.
How does that file "fragility" manifest itself to you ?


Not directed at me, but any noise that I may want to clear up from a 1 series file goes away much easier than a 5DII or III series file. I found the high ISO capabilties of the 5DIII a worthwhile upgrade over the 5DII, plus the additional focus points.

Speaking of noise, I am very tolerant of it and the 1 series noise is more appealing to my eyes. I do not always try to denoise all images.

If I hit the tone curve adjust button in DPP, the 1 series files just snap right in line and the 5DIII does not have the same latitude. Lots of people dismiss DPP, but I find it to work very well for basic adjustments.

Even messing around in Lightroom, there is more room to mess with 1D files than 5 series.

Not that the 5DII or III is bad, but there is a noticeable difference to me. I prefer to get it right in camera than spend lots of time messing with software.




Sep 28, 2014 at 05:38 PM
kaycephoto
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · 1D-X, 1Ds III, 5D III


I've used all 3 bodies & would characterize myself as a very particular event/wedding shooter with a sports background. I'll speak from my personal experience, though there may be subjective opinions below:

At base ISO, 1Ds Mark III has the best colours & tones out of the bodies mentioned by the OP. There's something about the tonal falloff on that body (most noticeable on a high-DR sunrise/sunset shot of the sky) that's just beautiful when exposed right in decent light. Also, has the best (which to me is, most neutral/natural) skin tones of the three. 1DX also has very good tones & colours, it's just slightly off from what the 1Ds Mark II delivers at ISO100 - at ISO800 & above, the 1DX produces noticeably better colours as well as file integrity in shadows/details. At base ISO, I find 5D Mark III files to be the worst of the three in terms of producing natural colours & skin tones, and the issue gets progressively worst as you raise the ISO. (Disclaimer: all in all, I respected but didn't like my 5D Mark III much at all - sold it as soon as I could find a suitor after testing it for 2 weeks intensively. I think it often over-saturates images unnaturally, while also rendering 'plastic' or lifeless skin tones in challenging light.)

In terms of AF, both the 5D Mark III & 1DX put the older 1Ds Mark III body to shame in terms of AF accuracy & reliability in different/challenging low-light situations. Canon really stepped it up with the release of the 5D Mark III & 1DX, though the 1-series flagship definitely has better lens drive capabilities for long lenses & using AI Servo in general.

Now returning to the OP's questions - I think the 1DX would provide better AF response using super-teles relative to a 5D Mark III, but overall it would only represent a marginal upgrade if AF is the only measure. 2nd, although the 1DX has less pixels than the 1Ds Mark III (which was a big concern of mine when I first switched), there's definitely something about the 1DX files that made me not miss my 1Ds Mark III at all.. I think it's in part due to the new AF module of the 1DX producing consistently sharper photos & also the improved sensor lending its characteristics to the files themselves, but with all other things being equal I find the 18MP 1DX files to have just as much detail as the 21MP 1Ds Mark III. In a nutshell, I think 1DX files are punchy & contrast-y, while still being natural, whereas I felt I'd have to do more to manipulate 1Ds Mark III files to achieve the same cinematic 'feel'

When all the considerations (dual CF, better screen, best high-ISO performance in Canon-land, spot AF using any focus point, 1-series lens drive, most flexible RAW files at any ISO, etc) are rolled into one, I think the easy answer for me was the 1DX - you just have to decide if its improvements over the 5D Mark III are worth the $2000-2500 difference or not.



Sep 28, 2014 at 06:08 PM
EB-1
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · 1D-X, 1Ds III, 5D III


Thanks, all.

Overall I'm not quite happy with the 5D IIIs compared to the 1Ds IIIs at ISO 100, but after all my problems last year, a 1D series was too much too handle. I did find the 5D IIIs to be better at ISO 800 and up, and of course the throughput for active subjects is so much better than the 1Ds IIIs.

After the surgeries and recoveries the Drs. gave me the OK to resume all normal activities in July 2014, so I'm spinning and doing weights, etc. It's still a strain, but as of mid-September I can handhold a 1Ds III and 500/4 IS for about 5 minutes without collapsing.

From what I'm reading here the 1D-X's 18MP is sufficient. Most likely I would put that on the 500/4 IS and use one of the 5D IIIs with one of the 100-400s.

EBH



Sep 28, 2014 at 11:12 PM
EB-1
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · 1D-X, 1Ds III, 5D III


EB-1 wrote:
..., but the AF performance has left me wondering if a 1D-X wouldn't be better.

whumber wrote:
My experience is that the 1DX grabs focus noticeably faster (especially when you set Focus priority for Servo mode), handles fast moving targets better, and is way better at picking the right AF point if you use the iTR mode and the target has a unique color you can track. The 5D3 is no slouch though, especially with the newest lenses with the rotation sensor.


I won't have any newish lenses for this trip. At one point I was very interested in the 200-400/4 w/TC, but it does not make sense unless there are bodies with higher-density sensors, which obviously is not the 1D-X. I'm not sure about the 7D II, but won't need heavy reach for another 11-18 months after this trip and expect some other new Canon or Nikon bodies by then.

EBH



Sep 28, 2014 at 11:23 PM
OntheRez
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · 1D-X, 1Ds III, 5D III


I shoot both the 1Dx and the 5DIII professionally though normally not on the same subjects. The 1Dx is obviously in use for my sports reporter role and is also used for wildlife. The 5DIII is more for landscape, macro, and the occasional environmental portrait. I have a couple of times used the 5DIII in sports action and while it's OK it doesn't - in my experience - acquire focus as quickly or as well as the 1Dx. This with the same lenses, sports, venues.

Both cameras can provide excellent images so the pixel count difference is difficult to tease out. On a purely perceptual basis (i.e. I have no real data) it seems that the 5DIII image when used whole or in large portion gives somewhat better color and maybe greater DR. The 1Dx on the other hand responds to tight cropping (like often happens in sports photography) better than the 5DIII.

I believe the real difference in these cameras comes in their intended use and the fact that the 1Dx is designed for durability and longevity beyond that of the 5DIII. If forced to choose between them, I'd go with the 1Dx and never look back.

Robert



Sep 29, 2014 at 10:29 AM
Bones74
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · 1D-X, 1Ds III, 5D III


PetKal wrote:
Stu, I wonder why is that so ? 5DMkIII has a bit higher pixel density of the imaging sensor than 1DX, so that one might see perhaps some "more depth" in 5DMkIII files.
How does that file "fragility" manifest itself to you ?


Hi Peter, its just in how much the files can stand up to being "messed with". The 1DX raw files are more robust in how they respond to having shadows pushed etc. Not in the same league as the exmor sensor, but noticeably better than the 5D3. I've actually started using the 1DX for landscapes now as well. Only problem is the silly sensor seems to have oil splatters which means a lot of cloning....



Sep 29, 2014 at 11:28 AM
Bones74
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · 1D-X, 1Ds III, 5D III


danski0224 wrote:
For Bones-

For whatever reason, the 1DX seems to underexpose compared to the 5DIII, so I have dialed in a little bit of exposure compensation.

Slightly underexposed 1DX images just come back 100% in DPP easily, and I have not tried the 4.0 version yet. I have noticed this with any 1 series camera- even an original 1D I recently picked up.

5DII and 5DIII files fall apart quickly unless the exposure is spot on or really close. I'm not referring to pushing shadows to daylight.

1 series noise cleans up a whole lot better, too. Again, don't know why, but there must be
...Show more

Thanks for your observations. I keep finding myself agreeing with you




Sep 29, 2014 at 11:44 AM
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