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Archive 2014 · Zeiss ZF 135mm f2 or Leica APO 100mm

  
 
SteveDK
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Zeiss ZF 135mm f2 or Leica APO 100mm


The 135mm/2 Apo Sonnar ZF.2 is a wonderful lens, though quite large and heavy. It’s incredibly good in the infinity to normal minimum focus distance range of the lens, but disappointing on a long extension tube like the Nikon PN-11. On a tube the corners get rather soft, while the central portion of the image remains sharp. I attribute that to the floating elements no longer being effective. Works better with the Canon 500D 77mm diopter lens for closer than normal focusing, but it’s not as good as my 100mm/2 Makro Planar ZF.2 for real macro work. The 135mm/2 is much better corrected for longitudinal chromatic aberration than the 100mm/2.

Edited on Sep 27, 2014 at 09:40 PM · View previous versions



Sep 27, 2014 at 09:36 AM
SteveDK
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Zeiss ZF 135mm f2 or Leica APO 100mm


Rockport’s Flat ledge Quarry, using the Zeiss 135mm/2 Apo Sonnar and Nikon D800E:
Flat Ledge Quarry, Rockport, Massachusetts, MMXIV by Steven Keirstead, on Flickr

Astrophotography Example with 135mm/2 ZF.2:
Sagitarius Area of the Milky Way, East Blue Hill, Maine, August 26, 2014 (135mm/2 Zeiss Apo Sonnar, D800E, f/2, 4 Sec., Tripod) by Steven Keirstead, on Flickr

Lichens in a granite quarry, 135mm/2 ZF.2 near minimum focus distance (c.1:4 reproduction ratio): Granite and Lichen, G. W. & W. C. Collins Quarry, East Blue Hill, Maine, MMXIII by Steven Keirstead, on Flickr



Sep 27, 2014 at 09:37 AM
zhangyue
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Zeiss ZF 135mm f2 or Leica APO 100mm


Steven, Joakim, kururu, Thanks for the samples. They are very impressive. Wow, all from Nikon user
Kururu, Yeh I agree that 135mm is long enough to differentiate it from100mm.
Steven, thanks for the extender info, I am not really into Macro or 1:1. But it makes sense as lens with FLE always sensitive to flange distance.

As expected, 135mm indeed a great lens, a steroid MP100. I will put it in my shopping list along with 100APO. Information from Rich that: Leica 100mm can be paired with 2X APO is a very nice addition, but less attractive for Nikon user like me. I will keep eyes on Leica and wait for deal. (I just lose 100APO bid on EBay. I can wait, not a collector, there is many there in good condition if I am patient.)



Sep 27, 2014 at 10:51 AM
DaveOls
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Zeiss ZF 135mm f2 or Leica APO 100mm


The Leica 100mm APO is awfully close in focal length to the 85mm Nikkor. Using a telextender on such a good lens would just probably compromise the image.


Sep 27, 2014 at 01:33 PM
naturephoto1
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Zeiss ZF 135mm f2 or Leica APO 100mm


DaveOls wrote:
The Leica 100mm APO is awfully close in focal length to the 85mm Nikkor. Using a telextender on such a good lens would just probably compromise the image.


It may lessen the quality slightly. But, even Leica has indicated that the 2X Apo Extender can replace the special and expensive 1:2 to 1:1 Elpro (mine cost over $500) for up to 1:1 and would about equal the Elpro though they recommend stopping down the lens 2 stops. Many others have also reported very good results with the combination of the 2X Apo extender with the 100mm Apo-Macro-Elmar for longer distances, though I have normally had longer lenses with me and have not tried this option.

Rich



Sep 27, 2014 at 01:43 PM
Grenache
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Zeiss ZF 135mm f2 or Leica APO 100mm


I have had a Leica 100 with the 1:1 adapter for several years. It is wonderful and versatile from macro all the way to infinity. It is a nice weight and ridiculously well damped for focusing. It is one of my favorite portrait lenses but yet is light enough to carry most anywhere. I even shot youth soccer with it the other day and had incredibly dramatic manually focused action shots. Here is a gallery with some of my shots with it.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/only_to_be_kind/sets/72157625786934062/

A friend has the 135 APO. I borrowed it several times and assumed that I would love it. I happily gave it back. I found the bokeh lovely, but the weight was just unwieldy and terribly off balanced. I felt I needed a brick on th back of my camera to counter balance. By contrast, my ZE 1.4/35 is ~2/3 the weight but much better balanced. Unlike the other ZEs I have, the focus ring on the 135 was also looser than I liked. I found it surprisingly difficult to focus, but I have no such trouble with 100mm or 200mm lenses in my cabinet. I really wanted to like it. I got several nice portraits with it and a couple mid range shots, but I just thought there were better lenses for my needs.

My pennies,
Jim



Sep 28, 2014 at 09:54 PM
zhangyue
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Zeiss ZF 135mm f2 or Leica APO 100mm


Very helpful information, thanks. Jim.


Sep 29, 2014 at 12:20 AM
MichaelErlewin
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Zeiss ZF 135mm f2 or Leica APO 100mm


This kind of discussion seems to be present on many sites, the vetting of the new Zeiss APO glass. I am a close-up/macro photographer and I have assembled a large collection of the best lenses I can find for my work. From that collection, I find I use (except for family snapshots) only APO glass that is highly corrected.

I am familiar and have used lenses like the Coastal Optics APO 60mm f/4, The Voigtlander 125mm f/2.5 APO-Lanthar, the two Macro-Planar Zeiss (50mm and 100mm), and the Leica 100mm Elmarit-R APO f/2.8 macro (with the El-Pro close-up Lens), and many others.

I also have and have used extensively the new Zeiss Otuss 55mm APO and the Zeiss 135mm APO lens. In my experience and IMO these two APO Zeiss lenses are unmatched by any other of the lenses I have used. Yes they are heavy, etc., but that that is not a consideration for my work. I only am interested in what they do, their results.

I include here a few photos taken with the Zeiss 135mm. The first is a photo of a couple of Japanese Beetles, and a 100% crop from that photo. And a third photo of a Fritillary butterfly. They show something of the quality of this Zeiss lens, although the original (Nikon 800E) is of course much larger and in a better color space than the web will allow.

Also, a free booklet comparing the various lenses I have used as they related to close-up and macro work.

http://spiritgrooves.net/pdf/e-books/Lenses%20for%20Close-up%20and%20Macro%20Photography%20V1.1.pdf

[I can't figure out how to get these photo links working. Those of you interested can probably cut and paste them]


Beetles

Beetles Crop

Butterfly



Edited on Sep 29, 2014 at 04:05 PM · View previous versions



Sep 29, 2014 at 02:06 PM
carstenw
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Zeiss ZF 135mm f2 or Leica APO 100mm


Just remove the s from https.

Thanks for the PDF, very interesting reading!



Sep 29, 2014 at 03:40 PM
MichaelErlewin
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Zeiss ZF 135mm f2 or Leica APO 100mm


Removing the "s" did not do it. Any other ideas?



Sep 29, 2014 at 03:53 PM
carstenw
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Zeiss ZF 135mm f2 or Leica APO 100mm


Ah, there is an @ sign which breaks the link. You need to use the Link button (or just typing in the format below) in the edit post box, instead of cutting and pasting the link. Then you type a name for the link (can also just be the link again), and the link in the two following dialogs. That should work.

For example, the link for the last post on this thread is:

Last Post

This looks as follows (with some spaces added to keep it readable, rather than the software trying to turn it into a link):

[ url=https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1320618/1#lastmessage ]Last Post[ /url ]

So the general format is (with some spaces added to keep it readable, rather than the software trying to turn it into a link):

[ url=<your URL> ] Some text describing link [ /url ]



Sep 29, 2014 at 03:56 PM
carstenw
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Zeiss ZF 135mm f2 or Leica APO 100mm


Now they work, although you probably need a line break after each.

Most links work normally with the software here, but Flickr links don't, and https links also do not.



Sep 29, 2014 at 04:03 PM
MichaelErlewin
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Zeiss ZF 135mm f2 or Leica APO 100mm


thanks



Sep 29, 2014 at 04:08 PM
MichaelErlewin
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Zeiss ZF 135mm f2 or Leica APO 100mm


Also, free book on Close-up, Macro, and Focus Stacking here;

http://spiritgrooves.net/pdf/e-books/Close-Up%20and%20Macro%20Photography%20V.0.pdf

24 free videos here:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5xDr8mWUwrzi4bxY978O1DQykUrj-S2I



Sep 29, 2014 at 04:09 PM
R10
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Zeiss ZF 135mm f2 or Leica APO 100mm


I know that the last post is a tad old but, I think, the topic as such isn’t outdated at all. Moreover, I guess there are few people around who are familiar (i.e., have used) both lenses. Hence:

I used the Leica AME100 some 15 years (on R8, 5D, 5DII, and Leitaxed on D800). Sometimes with the dedicated Elpro. I sold it recently and use now the Apo Sonnar 135 f/2 (on D810 and Fuji X-T1) and the Zeiss Touit 50 f/2.8 Macro (on the Fuji) instead.

The AME100 is one of the most 'well-behaved' lenses I have encountered so far. It features a near perfect balance of all optical qualities at very high levels, as opposed to pumping one or the other for visual effect. It shows an amazing amount of detail throughout the frame, already at full aperture, and has the ability to represent every slight variation of color and tone. And it does so with virtually no aberrations whatsoever. Color rendering-wise, I prefer the fingerprint of this lens over anything else.

The Zeiss Apo Sonnar is more of a, what I call, ‘popping’ lens. Resolution- and contrast-wise it outperforms the AME100 (I think; albeit not by an awful lot). Its Bokeh is breathtaking (f2 along with 35mm more focal length play their part here too, but I think so even when comparing these two lenses at the same aperture and magnification ratio). The Zeiss’ focus transition is more steep (yet absolutely smooth), like with a much longer tele lens, which may be a reason, along with its insane contrast, for its 3D-fingerprint (the ‘popping’).


So, why the Apo Sonnar now ?

I got tired of two things with the AME100: Stop-down metering and focusing and a whopping almost 720 degrees of focusing ring rotation. No typo. It’s not 270 like with the Zeiss Apo Sonnar (or 349 with the Zeiss Macro Planar 100 f2), but almost 720 (in words: almost two full turns). Ok, far most of which belongs to the closer distances and for macro this kind of precision is very useful. But still, even at longer distances, where relatively little movements of the focus ring are needed, but esp. for moderate close-up work, it got in my way too often. Also because the focusing ring is heavily damped, much more than the Zeiss – too much, I think (Even the 2nd version. Yes, there are two versions of the AME100 with respect to the inner focus mechanism (they don't differ optically): a very early “stiffer” version, and for most of the production period a smoother version. I had both. Not talking about CAM or ROM versions here.)

In recent years, I didn’t do an awful lot of macro with the AME100 anymore. Instead, I used more and more exclusively the much more versatile Fuji-X system for macro (first with the Fujinon Macro, which has a more Leica-ish rendition, now with the Zeiss Touit Macro). For moderate close-up (which I do a lot) and for longer distances, the Zeiss Apo Sonnar turned out to be ideal for me. At these distances the 3D really makes a difference. Well, over the years, I took a shine to the Zeiss fingerprint...

Yet, if money wouldn’t be limited the way it is, I would still have the AME100 too.


@kururu: Your example shots here in this threat show exactly what I’m after with the APO Sonnar. Great pictures!

@Micheal Erlewin: Thank you very much for your books and videos !


Cheers to all




Edited on Jun 23, 2015 at 08:46 AM · View previous versions



Mar 24, 2015 at 07:16 AM
philip_pj
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Zeiss ZF 135mm f2 or Leica APO 100mm


The 135/2 APO is an Otus class lens that came along before that series was inaugurated, so there are really three Otus lenses (with huge background interest in their next release, the wide angle of the series).

Dr Nasse goes over some design issues and has some interesting things to say about the older designs as used in the 100MP in this Sept 2014 interview:

http://petapixel.com/2014/09/21/video-fascinating-lens-design-101-interview-zeiss-master/



Mar 24, 2015 at 03:58 PM
Lee Saxon
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Zeiss ZF 135mm f2 or Leica APO 100mm


Philip, I felt the same way about the 135/2 being "the first Otus" and I've wondered if they're going to release a version that's actually in the Otus body/mechanicals at some point.

naturephoto1 wrote:
But, even Leica has indicated that the 2X Apo Extender can replace the special and expensive 1:2 to 1:1 Elpro (mine cost over $500) for up to 1:1 and would about equal the Elpro though they recommend stopping down the lens 2 stops.


How many stops do you lose with the Elpro?




Mar 24, 2015 at 06:37 PM
R10
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Zeiss ZF 135mm f2 or Leica APO 100mm


Lee Saxon wrote:
How many stops do you lose with the Elpro?




None - apart from the fact that Leica recommends stopping down (1 stop).
With the 2x Apo Extender you lose at least(!) 2 stops, 2 anyway and another 1-2 when following Leica's recommendation.
With the 1:2 - 1:1 Elpro you scrifice the ability to focus to infinity though.


Edited on Mar 25, 2015 at 09:04 AM · View previous versions



Mar 25, 2015 at 05:12 AM
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