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Archive 2014 · OMG - 1DsX in NYC...

  
 
Sneakyracer
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p.31 #1 · p.31 #1 · OMG - 1DsX in NYC...


Psychic, don't turn into Houdini and disappear all of the sudden. C'mon and face the music. Don't worry well be nice.


Oct 24, 2014 at 02:00 PM
kewlcanon
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p.31 #2 · p.31 #2 · OMG - 1DsX in NYC...


OP is thinking very hard to come up with some big bang canon (no pun intended) news .


Oct 24, 2014 at 02:02 PM
RCicala
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p.31 #3 · p.31 #3 · OMG - 1DsX in NYC...


Looks like I was wrong. I screwed up - I trusted them

I never do that. Guess I'm getting old and gullible.



Oct 24, 2014 at 02:38 PM
kezeka
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p.31 #4 · p.31 #4 · OMG - 1DsX in NYC...


UCSB wrote:
Opps ...

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/News-Post.aspx?News=12754

... Canon's PhotoPlus press release.


They could still announce something. Or not. Either way we will find out in a week!



Oct 24, 2014 at 02:47 PM
skibum5
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p.31 #5 · p.31 #5 · OMG - 1DsX in NYC...


Gunzorro wrote:
I know it's not of paramount interest to many on this forum, but Canon's release of the new C100 Mark II is encouraging, especially at a price point of just over $5K.

At least Canon is moving steadily forward on some fronts.

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/5563281944/canon-announces-eos-c100-mark-ii


Have you read the comments about it on the video boards though?



Oct 24, 2014 at 03:02 PM
jeremy_clay
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p.31 #6 · p.31 #6 · OMG - 1DsX in NYC...


Sneakyracer wrote:
Psychic, don't turn into Houdini and disappear all of the sudden. C'mon and face the music. Don't worry well be nice.


lol



Oct 24, 2014 at 04:01 PM
pureclassa
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p.31 #7 · p.31 #7 · OMG - 1DsX in NYC...


Is it possible they chose not to put big items in this initial release? How soon before the show 3 years ago was the 1DX leaked? Wasn't it the day before?


Oct 24, 2014 at 04:05 PM
kezeka
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p.31 #8 · p.31 #8 · OMG - 1DsX in NYC...


pureclassa wrote:
Is it possible they chose not to put big items in this initial release? How soon before the show 3 years ago was the 1DX leaked? Wasn't it the day before?


I would love to see the look on canon rumors guy's face if something dropped at this show after he has been so adamant about nothing coming.



Oct 24, 2014 at 04:24 PM
Sneakyracer
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p.31 #9 · p.31 #9 · OMG - 1DsX in NYC...


kezeka wrote:
I would love to see the look on canon rumors guy's face if something dropped at this show after he has been so adamant about nothing coming.


The odds are in his favor. I mean, I could play powerball and win, there is always the possibility.

It has been established that Canon in-house sensor production is working to a 0.50 micrometer process while Sony / Nikon sensors come from 0.25µm and 0.18µm foundries.

Canon has squeezed a lot of their current sensor production but the time has come that if they want to improve their sensors they either have to either a) buy sensors from Sony or b) develop 0.18µm sensor factories (or even smaller) and that is a huge undertaking. Most people in the know report that (b) is not happening unless they have been doing it under extreme secrecy. Factories just do not pop up out of nowhere.



Oct 24, 2014 at 04:44 PM
kezeka
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p.31 #10 · p.31 #10 · OMG - 1DsX in NYC...


What is your source that is saying that canon is not investing in new sensor fabrication equipment? I haven't read anything saying that they have or have not updated their foundries at this point. If you could provide links to a few credible places that would make for some good reading.

If I were a camera developing corporation that was vertically integrated I would probably think it a wise investment to commit to updating one or more of my foundries to fabricate sensors on a new process since it means greater long term profits than blowing similar amounts of money on buying sensors from my competition where I can't control quite as much of the development cycle and am forced to have similar image rendition as everyone else in the field of camera bodies.



Oct 24, 2014 at 04:53 PM
Matt Grum
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p.31 #11 · p.31 #11 · OMG - 1DsX in NYC...


kezeka wrote:
I haven't read anything saying that they have or have not updated their foundries at this point.


Exactly, if they built a new facility, or gutted the current one I'm sure we would have heard about it.

kezeka wrote:
If I were a camera developing corporation that was vertically integrated I would probably think it a wise investment to commit to updating one or more of my foundries to fabricate sensors on a new process since it means greater long term profits than blowing similar amounts of money on buying sensors from my competition


Canon shareholders will feel the need to realise a certain return on the investment they made in the existing fab before contemplating a new one. Provided they are still able to sell cameras (which they certainly are) then people could be in for a long wait before we see an improvement in read noise. This will have a knock on effect on how high they're able to push the resolution, as smaller pixels means read noise is higher compared to the number of photons you collect.

This means they will probably concentrate on the high speed not super high resolution segment of the market, where they can offer things like improved autofocus to shift new bodies (a la 5D3 and 7D2).



Oct 25, 2014 at 06:35 AM
ggreene
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p.31 #12 · p.31 #12 · OMG - 1DsX in NYC...


Matt Grum wrote:
This means they will probably concentrate on the high speed not super high resolution segment of the market, where they can offer things like improved autofocus to shift new bodies (a la 5D3 and 7D2).


Given that the 5D3 was a huge success and the 7D2 looks like a very impressive camera that will sell well also, I would say Canon has user demand calculated fairly well. I'd like to see a little more resolution but I don't expect "super high" resolution. It would be nice to see them boost the digic chips so that they could handle 12FPS at 27MP. That is what I'm really looking for.



Oct 25, 2014 at 08:57 AM
Sneakyracer
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p.31 #13 · p.31 #13 · OMG - 1DsX in NYC...


It is obvious that Canon is capped at current resolution levels. They can add more speed and features thats about it. They can and should have added in camera 4k video recording by now. Guess they dont wanna pull out that card just yet for other than their highest end video cameras.

Edited on Oct 25, 2014 at 09:19 AM · View previous versions



Oct 25, 2014 at 09:03 AM
bernardl
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p.31 #14 · p.31 #14 · OMG - 1DsX in NYC...


The most likely explanation is that Canon's mgt thought they had to come with a real breakthrough to have a chance to take the lead again in sensor technology. They knew that releasing a 46mp high end body at same DR level would result in Nikon coming up with a 54+ mp answer within a few months with more DR.

They also knew that some of their lenses would show significant weaknesses at those resolutions.

My personal bet is that their engineers have been trying to finalise a medium res multi-layer sensor but have been having a very hard time ironing out the many issues that they faced during design. Instead of taking the risk of releasing something not quite perfect, they have decided to postpone release till whenever they can get it right.

Cheers,
Bernard



Oct 25, 2014 at 09:04 AM
kezeka
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p.31 #15 · p.31 #15 · OMG - 1DsX in NYC...


Matt Grum wrote:
Exactly, if they built a new facility, or gutted the current one I'm sure we would have heard about it.

Canon shareholders will feel the need to realise a certain return on the investment they made in the existing fab before contemplating a new one. Provided they are still able to sell cameras (which they certainly are) then people could be in for a long wait before we see an improvement in read noise. This will have a knock on effect on how high they're able to push the resolution, as smaller pixels means read noise is higher compared to
...Show more

Foundry updates aren't exactly something the general public gives a crap about. There is very little reason for canon to brag about an update to their sensor manufacturing before they release the sensor.

That and it seems pretty clear that you don't have any evidence to support your claim one way or another.



Oct 25, 2014 at 09:17 AM
Sneakyracer
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p.31 #16 · p.31 #16 · OMG - 1DsX in NYC...


kezeka wrote:
Foundry updates aren't exactly something the general public gives a crap about. There is very little reason for canon to brag about an update to their sensor manufacturing before they release the sensor.

That and it seems pretty clear that you don't have any evidence to support your claim one way or another.


Most people that have the information can't post it ANYWHERE or even send it via a private messages. The monetary penalties are pretty severe never mind the complete loss of trust in the business relationship.

Canon is obviously stuck in regards to sensor design/manufacturing and just wants to milk current tech for as long as possible. Can't blame them. They have however been very busy making great new lenses. They have been continuously updating their lens line for many years now and currently have some really unique options.

If it were not for that and the great service and support they provide I and a lot of people would have moved along to greener pastures long ago.



Oct 25, 2014 at 09:26 AM
Matt Grum
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p.31 #17 · p.31 #17 · OMG - 1DsX in NYC...


ggreene wrote:
Given that the 5D3 was a huge success and the 7D2 looks like a very impressive camera that will sell well also, I would say Canon has user demand calculated fairly well.


It's certainly worked so far but there's only so many times you can improve autofocus whilst keeping resolution and dynamic range essentially the same. Once more, possibly.

kezeka wrote:
Foundry updates aren't exactly something the general public gives a crap about. There is very little reason for canon to brag about an update to their sensor manufacturing before they release the sensor.


This isn't the general public, every time Canon or anyone else posts an obscure patent or produces a part for the automotive industry it ends up on some rumour site or other. And as a public traded company there are things they have to disclose in annual reports. Plus news of a huge new investment in sensor production capability would certainly create a positive buzz and could sway anyone contemplating their continued investment in the Canon system, and is the sort of thing companies do press releases for on a regular basis.

kezeka wrote:
That and it seems pretty clear that you don't have any evidence to support your claim one way or another.


There's exactly the same amount of evidence on either side, I'm just applying Occam's Razor.




Oct 25, 2014 at 09:52 AM
ggreene
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p.31 #18 · p.31 #18 · OMG - 1DsX in NYC...


Sneakyracer wrote:
Canon is obviously stuck in regards to sensor design/manufacturing and just wants to milk current tech for as long as possible.


So long as they keep pushing the IQ of high ISO I'm good with that. In casual talking to photographers and enthusiasts high ISO is usually the priority not low ISO.

bernardl wrote:
My personal bet is that their engineers have been trying to finalise a medium res multi-layer sensor but have been having a very hard time ironing out the many issues that they faced during design. Instead of taking the risk of releasing something not quite perfect, they have decided to postpone release till whenever they can get it right.


I have no idea what Canon's internal plans are for sensors but if the attitude is that you don't release something until it's ready what is wrong with that? They are still selling a ton of cameras so they have time. Why risk a fiasco when you aren't even under pressure.



Oct 25, 2014 at 10:12 AM
Arun Gupta
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p.31 #19 · p.31 #19 · OMG - 1DsX in NYC...


http://www.chipworks.com/en/technical-competitive-analysis/resources/blog/full-frame-dslr-cameras-canon-stays-the-course/

Table 2:

There appears to be the 0.35, 0.25, and 0.18 um processes that are ahead of the Canon 0.5 um process. Is Canon going to do a leap-frog of process generations? I kind of doubt it. I think future Canon sensors will be built on an outsourced fabrication facility.



Oct 25, 2014 at 02:17 PM
StillFingerz
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p.31 #20 · p.31 #20 · OMG - 1DsX in NYC...


So many with their panties in a bunch, Canon will do whatever they like. And anyone that claims to have any idea of Canon sales is speaking out their own behinds; pure shite


Oct 25, 2014 at 02:32 PM
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