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Archive 2014 · Zeiss ZM 35 1.4

  
 
Jonas B
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p.36 #1 · p.36 #1 · Zeiss ZM 35 1.4


JaKo wrote:
Indeed, the image looks funky with far right being more in focus.
Here is more info; this image was take on a new, A7RM2 with Shoten adapter at f/1.4 and focused on the front of the 'piano'. Buildings on far right are fairly closer than on far left.
(...)
Hope this helps.
Jack


Yes Jack, that helps. Thank you for getting back on this old topic! I needed to know:

What your image(s) tell(s) me is that we have a bent focal plane, that the focus plane, at borders, bends towards infinity when the lens is focused close. That is the same we saw from the initial images Ron took at Photo Plus Expo back in November last year (page 11 of this thread). Here it seem to be, at least maybe so, accentuated by the A7R Mark 2 sensor topping.

If the left image is further away than the right one (in the second image in Jacks post #13 on this page) it explains why it is more blurry than the building to the right, but it is interesting it still is "sharper" than the building in the center of the image.

This problem may of no significance to some, and a major one to other users. I am bothered as I want the lens to be versatile and the only 35mm needed. Carrying an extra 35 in the bag and switching between them seem just too much for me.

Before making a final decision I'll have to wait for images taken with a modded A7(r) Mark 2 cameras. I so would like the lens to work as the big ZA35/1.4 isn't for me (due to size and weight).

Thanks again Jack!



Aug 31, 2015 at 12:28 PM
rscheffler
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p.36 #2 · p.36 #2 · Zeiss ZM 35 1.4


My guess is there's some additional field curvature induced by the sensor toppings at play here. I still haven't snapped up this lens, but from what I shot with it at PPE and seen from others, it should have a pretty flat plane on Leica M. I would expect it to be better on a modded Sony.

That said, this kind of look, where there is some field curvature towards infinity at the edges and objects in the background become more defined, is fairly common with RF lenses. Most I have tried, that exhibit some field curvature, tend to do it in the direction towards infinity, which always results in better/smoother blur in the centre of the image, and more defined and less appealing blur at the edges.

With a thick sensor topping this would seem to be exaggerated and appears to have been predicted by Nasse in one of his Zeiss papers:

"If the (sensor topping) filter is significantly thicker, the contrast transfer for the image edge becomes worse for tangential structures. In the graph of the curves, this looks like the old retrofocus lenses but is caused by astigmatism rather than lateral chromatic aberration. The focus is shifted to greater distances for tangential structures by the additional path through the glass."



Aug 31, 2015 at 03:23 PM
JaKo
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p.36 #3 · p.36 #3 · Zeiss ZM 35 1.4


^^^ I feel we should wait for more samples from A7RM2+ZM35D before going to fast conclusion based on a single picture.
Honestly, I am not even sure what caused image being sharper on far right as few other shots taken in similar situation don't exhibit such behavior. For what I know it could be Shoten helicoid adapter left rotated slightly towards closeup. Can't tell now, but images below seem fine to me. More test shots to come in a day or two.


1st @ f/1.4
2nd @ f/5.6
http://www.kozera.ca/photos/images/20150809_0028_640.jpg

http://www.kozera.ca/photos/images/20150826_0018_1600.jpg
Full size



Aug 31, 2015 at 11:51 PM
Greggf
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p.36 #4 · p.36 #4 · Zeiss ZM 35 1.4


^^^^ Nice Jack


Sep 01, 2015 at 12:03 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.36 #5 · p.36 #5 · Zeiss ZM 35 1.4


Very nice shots Jack. I think the lens will often work well with an unmodified A7r II as you and philber and others have shown. It will occasionally show problems, however, I expect, and your shot of the piano with the marina in the background did show a bit of a funky background (although I still liked the shot and I think all the funkiness could have been removed with a crop if one wanted to do so).

I think Jim Kasson's testing of a bunch of different lenses (but not the ZM 35 f/1.4) is showing pretty consistently that the A7r II does not show colour fringing with pretty much any lens. He also shows, however, that the mod on the A7 II clearly improves corner smearing (sometimes up to Leica M 240 levels and sometimes not quite that much), and that the IBIS works great with that conversion. To me this suggests that a modified Sony A7r II, when Kolari can do it will have at least as good of suppression of colour fringing and almost as good of control of corner smearing and have 42mp and IBIS to boot. I think both the A7r II (when it is modified) and the Leica M240 will be excellent platforms for Leica M glass, and which is better will depend on one's priorities. It will be nice to have such good choices.

What I think that means for the ZM 35 f/1.4 now, is that we will see no colour fringing (I don't think there was ever much anyways) but a bit of corner smearing on the unmodified A7r II. I don't think it will be any worse or better for corner smearing than the other unmodified A7 series cameras.



Sep 01, 2015 at 09:21 AM
JaKo
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p.36 #6 · p.36 #6 · Zeiss ZM 35 1.4


Thank you gents!

Steve, indeed colour fringing on A7RM2 (modified or not) is nearly nonexistent. In fact, the same shots taken with Leica SEM 21/3.4 on Kolari modded A7R and stock A7RM2 look much better on A7RM2 even after CornerFix profile was applied A7R images.

I feel that Kolari mod for A7RM2 will transform this already great camera into a fantastic photo tool!



Sep 01, 2015 at 10:32 AM
Greggf
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p.36 #7 · p.36 #7 · Zeiss ZM 35 1.4


When they get the mod done to the Rll, it should be pretty impressive. I have the v2 Kolari on my A7r, and I have absolutely no fringing/smearing with the ZM 35D. But I'm going to wait til prices come down for the Rll(and the Kolari mod!).


Sep 01, 2015 at 08:27 PM
JaKo
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p.36 #8 · p.36 #8 · Zeiss ZM 35 1.4


It stopped raining in Vancouver so I had a chance to take a few quick test shots.
Both images were focused on the foreground boat’s solar panel. The first image was taken wide open, where the second one at f/8.
Prospective purchasers of Distagon ZM35 may want to open both images in separate browser tabs to compare.

http://www.kozera.ca/photos/images/20150902_0006_1600.jpg
http://www.kozera.ca/photos/images/20150902_0008_1600.jpg



Edited on Sep 03, 2015 at 08:59 AM · View previous versions



Sep 02, 2015 at 08:00 PM
arduluth
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p.36 #9 · p.36 #9 · Zeiss ZM 35 1.4


Doesn't look nervous to me - looks pretty darned magical.


Sep 02, 2015 at 09:25 PM
Greggf
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p.36 #10 · p.36 #10 · Zeiss ZM 35 1.4


Jack...@f8 this lens is nothing short of incredible!! But, I love the wide open shot, as it has the most character and feels more real, to my eye.
Thanks for the comparo



Sep 03, 2015 at 12:16 AM
The Hexagonal
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p.36 #11 · p.36 #11 · Zeiss ZM 35 1.4


Hello everyone,

I may have missed this in the last few pages since I stopped here a while ago. Is there a consensus over whether the ZMD 35mm 1.4 performs better on an A7rMOD or on a stock a7rII, or is it about the same?

Cheers,



Sep 04, 2015 at 03:42 AM
philber
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p.36 #12 · p.36 #12 · Zeiss ZM 35 1.4


Thanks for the comparison, Jack! On my end, I bunch 80% of my shots between f:2.0 and f:2.8. Wide open only when preferable, because of a slight loss of sharpness, and the vingetting. From f:4.0 onwards, I feel it tends to gradually lose some of its unique look and sparkle. But that's just me...


Sep 04, 2015 at 03:57 AM
Jochenb
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p.36 #13 · p.36 #13 · Zeiss ZM 35 1.4


Jako, the full res photos that you shared (the ones shot with the A7RII, at f5.6 and f8) seem to have much better performance across the frame than what I saw earlier from this lens on the A7:
[email protected]

Interesting.



Sep 04, 2015 at 04:46 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.36 #14 · p.36 #14 · Zeiss ZM 35 1.4


Jochenb wrote:
Jako, the full res photos that you shared (the ones shot with the A7RII, at f5.6 and f8) seem to have much better performance across the frame than what I saw earlier from this lens on the A7:
[email protected]

Interesting.


Indeed. I do notice a tiny bit of magenta color vignetting in the F5.6 shot but across the frame sharpness looks really great. Damn!

Jako, what additional sharpening, if any, did you use on those shots?




Sep 04, 2015 at 07:57 AM
JaKo
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p.36 #15 · p.36 #15 · Zeiss ZM 35 1.4


Tariq, my usual sharpening during RAW conversion for non-portrait images is 40/0.9/65 with 35 masking. I do use batch sharpening during 1440&1600px re-sizing process; however, the full size JPG samples were sharpened only in RAW.



Jochenb wrote:
Jako, the full res photos that you shared (the ones shot with the A7RII, at f5.6 and f8) seem to have much better performance across the frame than what I saw earlier from this lens on the A7: [email protected]


Jochen, the difference in sharpness between samples may be a result of different settings and cameras. Your sample in linked URL was shot at f/16, 13seconds exposure and on 24MP camera, where my sample from A7RM2 was shot at f/5.6, 1/250s and on 42MP camera.
Please note that all samples in this thread I posted prior last week were taken on Kolari modded A7R.
Hope this help

PS.
Please check hiepphotog's posts regarding ZM35D on modded A7R - very interesting results and well done tests.



Sep 04, 2015 at 11:28 AM
Jochenb
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p.36 #16 · p.36 #16 · Zeiss ZM 35 1.4


JaKo wrote:
Jochen, the difference in sharpness between samples may be a result of different settings and cameras. Your sample in linked URL was shot at f/16, 13seconds exposure and on 24MP camera, where my sample from A7RM2 was shot at f/5.6, 1/250s and on 42MP camera.
Please note that all samples in this thread I posted prior last week were taken on Kolari modded A7R.
Hope this help

PS.
Please check hiepphotog's posts regarding ZM35D on modded A7R - very interesting results and well done tests.


The example that I linked wasn't shot at f16, but also at f5.6. I know that the EXIF says it's f16, but that's a mistake since the A7 can't detect the chosen aperture on this adapted lens. Even on a 24MP camera it shows more smearing than your A7RII example shot (the boats on this page) at that same aperture. That was my whole point.
BTW, thanks for sharing those full size shots.



Sep 04, 2015 at 11:56 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.36 #17 · p.36 #17 · Zeiss ZM 35 1.4


JaKo wrote:
Tariq, my usual sharpening during RAW conversion for non-portrait images is 40/0.9/65 with 35 masking. I do use batch sharpening during 1440&1600px re-sizing process; however, the full size JPG samples were sharpened only in RAW.


Jochen, the difference in sharpness between samples may be a result of different settings and cameras. Your sample in linked URL was shot at f/16, 13seconds exposure and on 24MP camera, where my sample from A7RM2 was shot at f/5.6, 1/250s and on 42MP camera.
Please note that all samples in this thread I posted prior last week were taken on Kolari modded A7R.
Hope this help

PS.
Please check
...Show more

Thanks for the information on sharpening.




Sep 04, 2015 at 12:23 PM
hiepphotog
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p.36 #18 · p.36 #18 · Zeiss ZM 35 1.4


The Hexagonal wrote:
Hello everyone,

I may have missed this in the last few pages since I stopped here a while ago. Is there a consensus over whether the ZMD 35mm 1.4 performs better on an A7rMOD or on a stock a7rII, or is it about the same?

Cheers,


The ZM 35/1.4 on any modded A7 body regardless of the gen. would perform better than on a stock camera, in term of sharpness. The A7RII is just plain better than any other A7 body in term of reducing vignetting and corner color cast. However, those are not really the problems with the ZM 35/1.4.



Sep 04, 2015 at 03:23 PM
The Hexagonal
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p.36 #19 · p.36 #19 · Zeiss ZM 35 1.4


Hiepphotog

Thanks for the reply.

So, a mod is needed to maximise the ZM 35mm 1.4 performance on any gen A7 series camera. I take that by what you say, smearing and maybe some field curvature issues remain on a stock a7rII, correct?



Sep 05, 2015 at 05:51 AM
hiepphotog
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p.36 #20 · p.36 #20 · Zeiss ZM 35 1.4


The Hexagonal wrote:
Hiepphotog

Thanks for the reply.

So, a mod is needed to maximise the ZM 35mm 1.4 performance on any gen A7 series camera. I take that by what you say, smearing and maybe some field curvature issues remain on a stock a7rII, correct?


Yes, with a few exceptions, I believe only M lenses at 75 or longer would not be affected by a thick sensor stack.



Sep 05, 2015 at 09:14 AM
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