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Archive 2014 · What would you have done?

  
 
rondphoto
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · What would you have done?


This happened to me last night. After shooting weddings for 6 years, it's the first time I've seen a guest make a bold move such as this...

So typical wedding where the guests were filming the ceremony with their iPads, iPhones, point and shoots and whatever other digital device they had. There was a row of folks in the very last row that were more aggressive than most guests. Constantly reaching into the aisle, and switching seats during the ceremony so they could take turns reaching into the aisle for Instagram photos. One girl, brought in a D7whatever and held it straight up in the air and was taking photos with direct flash. I think she was on ISO 100 and shooting TTL flash because the speedlight was going off at such a high power, I think I now know what it's like to suffer from a flash bang going off.

Anyway...I asked the fauxtographer to turn the flash off and asked the other peeps to kindly stay out of the aisle. It worked, until the couple was about to be pronounced. I was positioned at the end of the aise a few fee back from the last row and was ready to get the kiss shot.All of a sudden the 3 girls got up and ran over to stand 3 feet in front of me so that they could get the kiss shot with their phones and whatever.

In this situation, what would you have done? Would you have let them stand there and miss the shot or would you have said something discretely?



Sep 13, 2014 at 03:37 PM
amonline
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · What would you have done?


It's our responsibility to get the right position for the most important shots. This is why I come WAY up into the aisle long before the kiss... usually a few times to get my point across. I've literally pushed people out of the way to get my shot. Rude or not, the hell with them. There are no do-overs, and I let them know that - way before it's too late. Don't worry if you think it'll make you look bad. It won't the second everyone realizes why you did it. I've never had anyone get mad. I think they get it afterwards. I've actually had a few complement my doing it. I run into this at least once or twice a year. There might have been a time or two I would go find the person I trampled and explain why. They were always apologetic.. not that I wanted that.


Sep 13, 2014 at 03:48 PM
swoop
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · What would you have done?


In this day and age you really should have something in your contract and dedicate some time during the meeting to explain the issues associated with guests taking pictures with their phones and large cameras.

No need to be a jerk about it but explain, and have them initial somewhere that they understand.

My spiel is to say that I have no problem with guests taking photos. If a friend or family member really wants a picture of them that's great. But they need to understand that having people stand here and there and taking a bunch of pictures limits my creative options and obstructs my view and that because of that, they need to know that if there is someone there who is a bit heavy handed with the camera/phone it's their responsibility to keep them in line and out of the way. I'm not telling their relatives that they can't take pictures.



Sep 13, 2014 at 05:12 PM
rondphoto
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · What would you have done?


That is in my contract. But...is the couple going to keep them in line while said couple is getting married?

It's also not always realistic as I'm in a destination wedding market. I don't always get to meet my clients until the day of or the day before their wedding.

Edited on Sep 13, 2014 at 05:28 PM · View previous versions



Sep 13, 2014 at 05:26 PM
D. Diggler
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · What would you have done?


amonline wrote:
I've literally pushed people out of the way to get my shot. Rude or not, the hell with them.


Good for you.



Sep 13, 2014 at 10:05 PM
Tom Dix
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · What would you have done?


I have my 2nd or assistant ask them to move or stop. I shoot with a 2nd and an assistant. My assistant is aggressive with the aggressive. she helps so much. Guest are becoming more brazen, a strategy is important.
This plan also allows me to concentrate and communicate with the couple.



Sep 13, 2014 at 10:57 PM
amonline
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · What would you have done?


Way to pull out of context. Regardless, it's never been an issue. After all, they know what they're doing.


Sep 13, 2014 at 11:00 PM
Tom Dix
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · What would you have done?


amoline, why bother? It is what it is. Let him do whatever. Just don't engage. My 2 cents anywho.


Sep 14, 2014 at 01:19 AM
leethecam
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · What would you have done?


Sometimes a tog's physical position is limited by rules of the church - rules which are not respected by the guests.

To pus people out of the way may work - but imagine a fracas happening at the key romantic moment... It would be more than the "great" shot you had planned that would be remembered.

Best have a contract and discussion that asks for guests to stay out of the way, and something that removes responsibility if guests prevent a tog from doing the job.

I was shooting video for a wedding (a rarity) recently when guests stood right in front of the second camera, (like, RIGHT in front - people are dumb...). My assistant chose to move the camera, whereas my thing would have been to move the guests. The couple are the priority, but some guests seem to forget that and regard the photographer as the non-family intruder.



Sep 14, 2014 at 03:33 AM
sgtbueno
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · What would you have done?


Rond,
I had the same experience during a wedding in Montreal back in June, it was the first wedding ever that I could not get the kiss shot, it was terrible, it was so bad that not even the video guy got the kiss, and they had 2 videographers filming.
Whats really funny is that I asked yhem to kiss again and yes, everybody got in front of me again and I didnt get the kiss. FML!
I spoke to the b&G few days after the wedding and they knew what happened, and they didnt care.


Thats the reason why we all need to have something in the contract about it.



Sep 14, 2014 at 07:16 AM
sherijohnson
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · What would you have done?


if people start acting like this, then you have to be more aggressive than they are since you were hired to get the shots. sure my contract covers instances like this, like what if super last second someone literally jumps in front of you in the moment and you miss something.... but when you are already witnessing the stuff, you have to expect there may be more obstacles coming your way. I personally stay in the middle (if there is one) when I expect this moment and move forward if need be to avoid the issues that may come up.


Sep 14, 2014 at 07:55 AM
leethecam
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · What would you have done?


Snag is, that often the moments come just once - and not always is there time to be "aggressive" whilst pushing to the front, and getting the shot.

I've been in the "right place" before and from nowhere joe blogs sticks his camera in fron (literally) of my lens. By the time I've moved / asked him to move, the shot is gone.

And again, sometimes it's just not allowed or possible to move forward.

In my experience it's little old ladies (or "blue rinsers" as we sometimes call them in the UK), who feel they have earned the right to do anything to anyone at any time. One started grabbing my camera to pull it to the ground because I'm assuming I was getting in the way of HER shot.

I have learned to make myself quite wide and imposing nowadays - I think that helps.



Sep 14, 2014 at 10:18 AM
glort
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · What would you have done?



Many good and accurate comments her so far.

I have been shooting weddings 30 years and it's nothing new. For some reason the guests frequently feel that their shots are more important than yours and their getting their pictures is justification of interfereing with the professional getting what he's being paid by the B&G to do.

As said, you'll often be lectured by the priest or whoever as to where you can and can't go and what you can and can't do but the guests never get that.
So many things I have had happen over this.

I had a guy one time Literally walk in and stand an inch in front of my camera as I was trying to get a shot of the bride and her father dancing in an emotional moment. All the sudden everything in the camera went white and I wondered what happened till I looked and all I couls see what the guys shirt and head.
I half pushed and half punched the guy and sent him sprawling. I was then keeping one eye on the the bride and her father and the other on the guy waiting for him to come back at me. As it was the brides brother was standing behind me trying to unobtrusively get a shot of his own and saw what happened. He was pissed too and pretty much dragged the guy away and gave him a serve.

Another time I gave a guy a shove who was pushing me sideways while I was doing the cake cutting shots. Afterwards he wanted to have a go outside which I would have been real happy to do had I not been there in the capacity as a professional and felt compelled to hold a higher standard. I informed the MC who informed the groom who went out to the guy in the foyer with the groomsmen and threw the guy out into the street. Apparently he wasnt invited on purpose because he was a trouble making drunked smartarse who worked with the bride but managed to get a female guest to bring him as her partner.

I also did a bunch of weddings for a group of people that all belonged to the same local church group. One of those deals where you do one wedding and someone in the bridal party is the next wedding and you have built a rapport with them and then their friends see what you did for the others as they all know one another and so it goes.
I was on my 4th wedding in 13 months with these people and the serial pest with a camera was shooting over my shoulder yet again as soon as we arrived at the church.
I had spoken to the B&G about him and they didn't really like the guy but it would have been difficult not to invite him when they had others.

This guy followed me, not even the bride, like a pet dog ( I think my Rottweilers were taller!) so knowing what would happen, I walked round the corner of the church away from everyone and the pest of course was in hot persuit. He fair nearly shit his pants as he literally bumped into me as he rounded the corner where I was waiting for him. I said " There is no way in hell I'm doing this shit with you again today. You shoot over my shoulder or I turn around and trip over you just once and I'll shove your toy camera where the sun don't shine sideways. " He complained about his " Right" to take pictures.
I pointed out the B&G's " Right" to have people thrown out of their wedding and told him I had already discussed him with them and they were happy to have him removed on my say so if at any time he so much as annoyed me which would distract me from providing the service they had paid for me to do.

He whined some more but the comment that really seemed to hit home was when I said to him, " Don't you think that after all your pestering everyone over the last 12 months to do their weddings that if anyone wanted you to do their pictures or thought you were any good as a photographer, they would have got you to do them for free instead of paying me thousands". I said have you any idea what people have said about the pictures you have done at the other weddings you have showed around and made the smart arse comments about me ? They think they are rubbish, and if they did think they were any good, I wouldn't be here now would I?

The threat of shoving the guys camera up his shortarse wimpy butt seemed to have little effect but the last comment visibly took the wind right out of his sails and hit home.
Of course he still tried to push his luck a few times but it was pretty laughable and pathetic by then and even he knew he was just making himself look ridicilous by that stage.
He was the worst and most annoying serial pest I have ever come across in my time though.

I have a clause in my contract I spell out agressively with the B&G that says I am the only one that takes pics on the day. I tell them, this is what you will be signing. I tell them in practacality that I will turn a blind eye to guests taking all the damn pictures they like PROVIDING, they don't get in my way or interfere with what I am doing and that NO ONE else is taking pics at the formals. I also tell them that IF anyone interferes with what I'm doing, this consitiutes a breach of contract and I am not responsible for any shortcomings in the coverage at all.

It's the one thing I'm heavy about but in 20+ years, everyone has understood and not had a problem with it.
I don't expect the B&G to police everyone with an instamatic BUT, -many- times when I go over this, they will comment to one another that they will make this clear to uncle Bob the family photo nut & pain in the arse and let him know in advance. At least it potentialy nips some problems in the bud.

The rest as said is just instant things you have to deal with as best you can. You can position yourself, warn/ ask/ advise and everything else but there is little you can do in the fleeting second to stop some self important twit coming right in front of the shot you are waiting for and stuffing it all up.
When that happens to me as it does to everyone, I make sure to get the blocked shot and the aftermarth of whatever I missed as proof of having a reason why the shot was missed not an excuse. Said pictures then divert any disatisfaction from me to the moron responsible identifyable in the picture.

I do agree also that people are becoming more agressive with this or at least more self important and less considerate. They think because they have a phone or the real pro wannabes have a digicam, maybe even one that came with 2 kit lenses!! their entitlement to get a pic comes above and beyond all the others that feel the same way and the person the B&G is paying for to be there.

I think every case has to be taken on it's merits. Sometimes you have time to react and get the pests out the way and other times you don't sometimes its a self important pain in the arse and on rare occasions it's absent minded granny taken up in the moment. I try to refrain shoving them on their arses and others get the same lack of manners they show me and get a shoulder or elbow where they weren't expecitng one or are picking their inconsiderate backsides off the floor.

I have got into quite a few " Disputes" with people over this (there's a surprise!!) but the B&G have ALWAYS sided with me even when numerous people have complained to them given I'm the one they have the hefty investment in not the guests.



Sep 14, 2014 at 12:55 PM
IrishDino
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · What would you have done?


I don't understand the contact angle...why put it there? There's no way a client could successfully sue a photog because of a missed first kiss.


Sep 14, 2014 at 04:15 PM
Nikon_14
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · What would you have done?


ZachOly wroteThere's no way a client could successfully sue a photog because of a missed first kiss.


In this day and age, the question is not, "What can a business be sued for?", but rather "What can a business NOT be sued for?"



Sep 14, 2014 at 04:24 PM
othfilm
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · What would you have done?


ZachOly wrote:
I don't understand the contact angle...why put it there? There's no way a client could successfully sue a photog because of a missed first kiss.


Not only can you be sued, a wedding photographer partially lost the suit: http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/01/13/wedding-photographer-sued-for-missing-the-kiss/




Sep 14, 2014 at 07:02 PM
IrishDino
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · What would you have done?


othfilm wrote:


Not only can you be sued, a wedding photographer partially lost the suit: http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/01/13/wedding-photographer-sued-for-missing-the-kiss/



To be fair, from the article: "Ferris had missed all the key moments of wedding photography"



Sep 14, 2014 at 07:09 PM





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