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Archive 2014 · Gitzo 2543L heavier than predecessor?

  
 
Alex Nail
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Gitzo 2543L heavier than predecessor?


I'm continuing my seemingly endless quest to find a lighter tripod for backapcking to replace my GT2541EX (Gitzo Exporer) which weighs in at 1.85kg.

I've been looking at the 2543L, one of the latest line of mountaineer tripod. At 1.74kg its almost as heavy as the much more flexible Explorer. Then I noticed that its actually 300g heavier than its predecessor. Does anyone know why this is? Spec comparison below:

Gitzo ‘Mountaineer’ ‘2 Series’ GT2543L
Top tube diameter 29mm
Working height 179cm (151cm with centre column down)
Minimum height 16cm
Weight 1.74kg

Gitzo ‘Mountaineer’ ‘2 Series’ GT2542L
Top tube diameter 29mm
Working height 175cm (151cm with centre column down)
Minimum height 17cm
Weight 1.43kg (310g lighter)

Thanks,

Alex



Sep 10, 2014 at 03:13 AM
sjms
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Gitzo 2543L heavier than predecessor?


yes it is. they found it more prudent to beef up certain sections of these tripods.


Sep 10, 2014 at 07:30 AM
Alex Nail
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Gitzo 2543L heavier than predecessor?


sjms wrote:
yes it is. they found it more prudent to beef up certain sections of these tripods.


I can see they beefed it up purely by the increase in weight! But do you know why and where the change was made? At the moment its hard to see this as any sort of improvement because 300g is quite significant relatively speaking!



Sep 10, 2014 at 09:22 AM
sjms
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Gitzo 2543L heavier than predecessor?


they went too far. they weren't as rigid with the technology they use. so it was time to reverse course and bite the weight bullet a bit. besides the metal the increased the CF wall thickness which was a reversal too from the past. the bolstered the strength on the centerpost at the top and changed, yet again, their platform design. note the collet going over upper section of CF just below the platform. i have a new model monopod from Induro that has the same type of collet. RRS never went over to a CF centerpost due to the minimal weight differential for that piece vs cost diff.



Sep 10, 2014 at 09:32 AM
Alex Nail
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Gitzo 2543L heavier than predecessor?


Interesting. I've never heard that these tripod had a problem as regards stability so it's strange to me that they 'fixed' something that wasnt broken (at least from a public perspective)?? It's also interesting that this essentially make the Gitzo tripods overweight vs many of their competitors, notably the RRS 24L which has a larger 33mm tube and a 'systematic' style design, without centre column for the same weight, whilst maintaining the same working height too.
I'd love to see a technical comparison of stability of these tripods one day, if you think about it its funny that no publicly information/comparisons (from the last 10 years) exist on tripod stability since that is their primary function!
Anyway thanks for the reply.

EDIT: Reading a bit more it seems they decreased the wall thickness (and increased some of the diameters slightly) that should really result in a slight decrease in weight so I can only assume that entire 300g is eaten up by the castings and locks.



Sep 10, 2014 at 09:44 AM
sjms
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Gitzo 2543L heavier than predecessor?


that because for the most part reasonable good tripods do their job as is.

yes after the reread you are correct on the CF.



Sep 10, 2014 at 09:47 AM
sjms
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Gitzo 2543L heavier than predecessor?


one other little thing being a thinner lay up does not necessarily mean lighter. being now 8 layers the density does increase.


Sep 10, 2014 at 12:02 PM
Beni
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Gitzo 2543L heavier than predecessor?


I have the 2542L and haven't ever noticed any problems that needed fixing. I don't use long lenses though.


Sep 11, 2014 at 12:36 AM
philber
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Gitzo 2543L heavier than predecessor?


Not only this one gained weight. The 0542 replaced the 0541, and is both heavier and shorter. But much more rigid.


Sep 11, 2014 at 01:15 AM
Alex Nail
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Gitzo 2543L heavier than predecessor?


Beni wrote:
I have the 2542L and haven't ever noticed any problems that needed fixing. I don't use long lenses though.

Good to know! I think I can get one of these £250 cheaper than the latest model so it's probably the way I am going to head




Sep 11, 2014 at 02:32 AM
peter_n
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Gitzo 2543L heavier than predecessor?


There was also a weight (& size) gain across their systematic range when the updated systematics were released a couple of years ago.

Alex Nail wrote:
I'd love to see a technical comparison of stability of these tripods one day, if you think about it its funny that no publicly information/comparisons (from the last 10 years) exist on tripod stability since that is their primary function!


Neil Rothschild did a comparison of Gitzo and RRS tripods with vibration data a number of years ago. It was published on the Nikonians web site which I believe is now in trouble; they're asking for donations.



Sep 11, 2014 at 07:10 AM
sjms
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Gitzo 2543L heavier than predecessor?


another misguided personal perception. it lacked regiment.

regretfully every single so called test of tripods other then the obvious baseline (does it stand up w/o obviously flexing or bending on its own) has been an uncontrolled abysmal failure. wrong perceptions to begin with and lack of qualifying regiment. the original tests by the leica users group many years ago were borderline laughable.

in various situations each one of these contraptions will act differently. so one can choose a scenario to fit strength and or weakness.



Sep 11, 2014 at 07:21 AM
Alex Nail
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Gitzo 2543L heavier than predecessor?


Sure, but there are test which you could conduct that might simulate tripod stability within a fixed set of parameters. A good controlled test would be to clamp a laser pointer to the centre column and extend the tripods to a range of heights in a manner that represents best practice (extend thickest sections first then centre column). You could then put the setup in a low speed wind tunnel and measure the deflection of the laser pen with time for an example wind speed of say 15mph.
Whilst this test would be far from perfect it would give a useful indication of stability. Albeit with the caveat that different tripods have different geometries. Unfortunately there isnt much demand for such a test since other factors are generally more important in an outdoor scenario (height of tripod, solidity of ground, energy transference to ground, strength of wind, how well it is set up etc). In these situations the actual stability of the tripod and resistance to vibration starts to become only a minor contributing factor once you get above a certain stiffness (eg gitzo series 2 and above). Thats why I am slightly cynical of Gitzo's claims of significant improvements to stiffness etc. Past a certain point I think you get dimishing returns and the previous generation of gitzo tripods did seem very good...




Sep 11, 2014 at 08:33 AM
sjms
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Gitzo 2543L heavier than predecessor?


add in the head you are using (a big variable) and the contraption you have clamped on top of the head itself. each individual part adds its own moment and a photographic tripod is less then usable w/o a camera (and thats even a bigger variable) on top of it.

nothing like missing the forest for the trees.

do they have Induro over in the UK?



Sep 11, 2014 at 08:44 AM
Alex Nail
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Gitzo 2543L heavier than predecessor?


They might have Induro, or a version of it. My experience with the 'off-brand' models that clients have had is that they are nice, but the leg locks havent been quite as good.


Sep 12, 2014 at 01:29 AM
sjms
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Gitzo 2543L heavier than predecessor?


Induo is marketed under only its name.

you know which way i generally go with my CF stuff.

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1316428/0#12560452

you need to go look at them more. the leg locks on my MP from them are bulletproof.



Sep 12, 2014 at 07:15 AM
Alex Nail
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Gitzo 2543L heavier than predecessor?


In which case do you have a recommendation for me? Do Induro do an equivalent to the 2542L that matches the weight, working height and rigidity?

I looked at the CT-214 but it looks to be smaller, fractionally heavier and (according to the only comparison against the Gitzo I could find) less stable. Given that price isnt a deciding factor for me it would seem that the Induro is better value, but that the Gitzo is better in terms of performance, at least on paper?



Sep 15, 2014 at 04:51 AM
sjms
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Gitzo 2543L heavier than predecessor?


well since price is not a deciding factor then the 2543L has more to offer. but of course at 2x the price.
the CT314 meets all the specs but looses in the weight category by a bit. the deciding factor will be how you will use it. iwonder if the weight stated for this is with or w/o the accessories. when i got my MP the stated weight on the box was for the MP itself where the website showed heaver. now everyone is down the road from you in frankfurt playing at photokina for the next few days. so a straight answer isn't going to be forthcoming until they're back.

as far as relative stability where is the comparison located?

just remember on a gitzo don't chip the paint



Sep 15, 2014 at 07:33 AM
Alex Nail
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Gitzo 2543L heavier than predecessor?


The comparison is on the Amazon.com review. It's anecdotal but the reviewer does state that whist the Gitzo tripod is slightly better the Induro model is far better value. Sadly there is no actual information on stability, just people's opinions.

The CT-314 is 2.2kg, 350g heavier than my current tripod and 800g heavier than the 2542L.

I am trying to save weight for long distance backpacking (2 weeks without resupply) but my previous experience with 'traveller' type models is that they are both too short (I am 6'4") and lack stability in the kind of wind you can get in the mountains(the GT1541 didnt have a wide enough base in my opinon). My current tripod generally takes these conditions in its stride, albeit with some sheilding/weighing down required occasionally.

What I am looking for is a hiking tripod which is as stable as my 2541EX with a similar or greater working height whilst saving a worthwhile amount of weight (ideally 400g or so). I'm not really concerned about price as long as its under about £600 ($1000). The height is particularly important, not just because I am tall, but also because I regularly set up on steep ground (mountains sides) and having long tripod legs helps a lot there.

Requirements would probably be as follows:
Weight: 1.3-1.5kg
Minimum '2 series' size legs > 29mm diameter
>150cm without centre column
170cm approx with centre column

The weight is flexible. For example I might accept a heavier tripod (1.8kg) if I knew it was significantly more stable. That said, weight is very significant to me because my camera kit is a heavy component of my backpacking setup, so everything that has a weight has to be justifyable, hence the question about the heavier new GT2543L which seems a lot like 300g for a negligeable stability increase?



Sep 15, 2014 at 08:23 AM
sjms
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Gitzo 2543L heavier than predecessor?


now you have put forth a more substantial picture. seems like the Gitzo is more the way to go. but again i really need to look into the weight of the 314. i may be wrong but it might be the packaged weight. but maybe the Gitzo "fits" a little better per your prescribed preferences.


Sep 15, 2014 at 10:04 AM
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