Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Lighting & Studio Techniques | Join Upload & Sell

  

Archive 2014 · Wanting to get started with portiats: softbox help

  
 
Mataz426
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Wanting to get started with portiats: softbox help


Hello
I really want to get started with portraits. Would a softbox be better than an umbrella. From what I've read they are more directional and are a great choice for outdoor one flash portraits? Would a 24"x24" be able to do full body shots or should I be looking at 30" Any help would be appreciated.



Aug 31, 2014 at 06:25 PM
dmacmillan
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Wanting to get started with portiats: softbox help


There's lots to consider. Will you be wanting to expand to indoor work as well? How do you plan to trigger the light?

I think 24" is too small for full body. You need a bigger source. The problem becomes flash power. You will be spreading the same amount of light over a much bigger subject. Because of the inverse square law, you lose power in a hurry. Moving your light from 4' to 8' requires 4x as much power to keep the light at the same intensity on the subject.

For waist shots and tighter, consider the Westcott Rapid Box. Search on Youtube for some examples. It provides a nice light. If you balance it with ambient light outdoors, it works well. I also love the light of a 60" umbrella, but using it outdoors in even the smallest breeze requires big sandbags.



Sep 01, 2014 at 07:13 AM
Mataz426
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Wanting to get started with portiats: softbox help


dmacmillan

I have the pocketwizard III and pocketwizard plus X and a SB910. Yes my main thought would be to use it outdoors with ambient for the most part. I'm still learning about flash power, and you have a great point about being able to power a bigger softbox plus the cost is just not possible right now. I really like your suggestion for the Westcott. It seems well built, and the reviews are positive. So that's the route I'm going with. I ordered the Westcott WE2035 Rapid Box 26" Octa Speedlite Kit. I don't even know anything about stands so the kit made the decision easier. Thank you so much for the help, I really appreciate it.




Sep 01, 2014 at 10:23 AM
Paul_K
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Wanting to get started with portiats: softbox help


Mataz426 wrote:
Would a 24"x24" be able to do full body shots or should I be looking at 30"

I have the pocketwizard III and pocketwizard plus X and a SB910.

Yes my main thought would be to use it outdoors with ambient for the most part.


I think you should also have to consider something else.

I have a SB910 as well, so am quite aware of its GN and effective output. But IMO it will despite/because of its GN of (actually only) 111.5 at 100 ISO be very hard be get a decent aperture number if the flash is to be diffused in a 24' softbox, let alone a 30' one. Also technically speaking, to avoid a hotspot ( and consequently uneven lighting) you would need to put an extra diffusion screen inside the softbox, costing you extra light on top of the loss already caused by the diffusion of the softbox.

Also, if you plan to use it as your mainlight, unless you plan to shoot at dusk or in the dark, your flash will have to compete with, and as a mainlight overcome the available daylight you would normally shoot under. Not to mention possibly also have to function in FPP synch mood to cope with possible necessary faster then the maximum synch shutterspeeds (which effectively lowers the GN), all of which will demand much (too much?) output for your single speedlight to provide, and probably also fully depleting it from shot to shot

Another thing to keep in mind when you shoot too fast at full power of close to full power (so not even multiple fps, but with a few seconds in between, but still fully depleting or almost fullt depleting it all the time ), is that though it's less prone to overheating then the SB900, it as a safety against melting will at one point slow down, (the SB900 would go on till it overheated and then block for several minutes) slowing down even more your recycle times/shooting.

Maybe you have found a way to bypass the above scenarios. Personally the only solution I found effective was using multiple speedlights in a reflective silver umbrella (less directional as a softbox, but higher efficiency). I have half a dozen of SB800's for that purpose. They lack the safety lockdown of the SB900/910 and will at one point risk actual meltdown (the most common problem for pro shooters, and the reason Nikon developed the SB900/910's) . But I try and avoid that by using several of them at the same time, and in the process also am able to maintain a reasonable recycle speed and acceptable output)

Of course I did not develop that idea myself, but ran into it while reading things like Dave Black and Joe McNally's blogs eg http://www.joemcnally.com/blog/2010/10/24/notes-from-the-islands/
Please note that in the video Joe MacNally isn't using a speedlight in the softbox but a Elinchome Quadra, a 400Ws battery power flash head. Even if comparing GN to Wattseconds is like comparing apples and oranges, it's obvious that is far more powerfull then a SB910.

HTH



Sep 01, 2014 at 11:39 AM
Mataz426
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Wanting to get started with portiats: softbox help


So one flash outside isn't going to cut it? Thanks for all the info Paul_K


Sep 01, 2014 at 12:22 PM
twistys4me
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Wanting to get started with portiats: softbox help


Mataz426 wrote:
So one flash outside isn't going to cut it? Thanks for all the info Paul_K
One flash will work. you might have to bump the iso up tho. I use the apollo 50x50 with one or two mitros+ flashes in it.




Sep 01, 2014 at 01:18 PM
Mataz426
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Wanting to get started with portiats: softbox help


twistys4me
Thanks for the response. I Googled mitros. Are they just flashes? I'm looking for just fill light 30% Joe Brady (I like his stuff)



Sep 01, 2014 at 02:06 PM
twistys4me
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Wanting to get started with portiats: softbox help


yes just third party flashes. alittle less power then a sb-910. For fill it will work fine for that 30% not going to overpower the sun thats for sure.


Sep 01, 2014 at 02:09 PM
Deezie
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Wanting to get started with portiats: softbox help


If you want to sometimes get away with shooting outdoors without using a light, one trick is to get a white translucent umbrella and use a stand to place it over your subject. This allows you to shoot directly in the sunlight, but to have this soft, filtered light upon them. It's very flattering… Mind you, this works better for tighter shots instead of full-body.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/362386-REG/Impact_S3243_White_Translucent_Umbrella_43.html

As far as modifiers go, I prefer to use a beauty dish with a sock over it. It weighs more, so it tends not to fall over and if it's far enough back, you can sometimes get a full body shot.



Sep 01, 2014 at 04:27 PM
dmacmillan
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Wanting to get started with portiats: softbox help


Mataz426 wrote:
dmacmillan

I ordered the Westcott WE2035 Rapid Box 26" Octa Speedlite Kit. I don't even know anything about stands so the kit made the decision easier. Thank you so much for the help, I really appreciate it.


You're quite welcome. Be sure to post photos you take with it!

I understand the concern others have expressed regarding power. Since I no longer shoot for a living, I have more control over time of day, therefore I'm not trying to overpower the sun. If so, I'd look at something like the Godox 360. I like the bare bulb in addition. Also, I don't shoot stopped way down on portraits. F4.0 is a nice aperture for portraits.



Sep 01, 2014 at 05:02 PM
Mataz426
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Wanting to get started with portiats: softbox help


Deezie

That's a great tool for shooting in bright conditions. I need to get a reflector, and it makes sense to get one of these also. I've seen beauty dish tutorials and they do seem like great lighting, and maybe I can go that route down the road as the more I learn.
Thank you Dave




Sep 01, 2014 at 08:16 PM
Mataz426
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Wanting to get started with portiats: softbox help


dmacmillan wrote:
You're quite welcome. Be sure to post photos you take with it!

I understand the concern others have expressed regarding power. Since I no longer shoot for a living, I have more control over time of day, therefore I'm not trying to overpower the sun. If so, I'd look at something like the Godox 360. I like the bare bulb in addition. Also, I don't shoot stopped way down on portraits. F4.0 is a nice aperture for portraits.


The softbox will give me some flexibility, and I can always shoot with just the bare speedlight in brighter conditions? Whats your thought on light meters?
Thanks again Dave



Sep 01, 2014 at 08:19 PM
Dave McGaughey
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Wanting to get started with portiats: softbox help


Mataz426 wrote:
The softbox will give me some flexibility, and I can always shoot with just the bare speedlight in brighter conditions? Whats your thought on light meters?
Thanks again Dave


I'm going to be a bit blunter - one speed light in a soft box will not produce anywhere near the power you need outside. People using soft boxes outside are either using multiple speed lights or powerful strobes.

Softboxes are very useful inside because they do a good job controlling spill. However, this usually isn't a problem outside. I'd just start out with a shoot-through umbrella. They steal less power and are cheaper.



Sep 01, 2014 at 09:44 PM
Mataz426
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Wanting to get started with portiats: softbox help


Is a softbox more directional? I have a light stand coming. Is there an umbrella you would recommend?


Sep 01, 2014 at 10:12 PM
dmacmillan
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Wanting to get started with portiats: softbox help


Mataz426 wrote:
The softbox will give me some flexibility, and I can always shoot with just the bare speedlight in brighter conditions? Whats your thought on light meters?
Thanks again Dave

Dave,
Shooting bare flash might solve a technical problem, but at the expense of aesthetics. I normally don't like the look of bare flash, on or off the camera, either as fill or key when shooting outdoors.

If you want a big, diffused source of light and are shooting in bright sunlight situations, you can always use a piece of polished aluminum to reflect light back at the subject. Place a large diffusion reflector between the two. Even a silver reflector/diffusor combination can work.

Again, all of this is dependent on what kind of work you want to do and how much scheduling flexibility you have. I haven't had a problem with using a single 580EX in either the Rapid Box or 60" umbrella when shooting during the golden hour.

You can't go wrong with a Sekonic meter. Pick the fanciest you can afford. The Sekonic Litemaster Pro L-478DR Light Meter and X-Rite ColorChecker Passport with Sekonic Gray Balance Card is a good bargain, since the ColoChecker is ~$100 by itself.

Personally, I'm old and cheap and I don't use a meter. I take an ambient reading at the aperture I want to use, then set to manual. I set exposure slightly under for the background, varying the amount based on the desired effect. Usually it's -1/2 to -2/3. I use Phottix Odins which allow me to set the flash power remotely. I just dial the power up or down as needed until the exposure is right. I can even adjust in 1/3 stop amounts so I can dial it in. I'll probably break down and get a meter one day.




Sep 02, 2014 at 09:16 AM
Paul_K
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Wanting to get started with portiats: softbox help


@Mataz426

Hi Dave

I just reread the whole string of messages including your several reactions, and my sincere advice is that you should put all your idea's about shooting your SB910 in a softbox in the refrigerator for some time, at least a couple of weeks.

Instead of that you should read yourself more into what specific lightsources are available, what they do, and don't, and first get a better (technical) idea of what or how you want to shoot (tried to find the Joe Brady you refer to, but only found one Joe Brady who's a landscape photographer and another who gave workshops on 2010)

At the moment I can only see you running enthusiastically after each new suggestion that is given, asking details for brands and models, as if the mere purchase of them would instantly mean you will automatically be able to use them in any practical and for you beneficial way.

To begin with, you should begin to define under what conditions you want to use your flash: full daylight, dusk or in the dark. The next question is how you want to use your flash, as the mainlight (i.e. when shooting in full daylight overpowering it with your flash) or as a fill in for the shadows (which still can mean you'll need a lot of flash depending on the amount of daylight and contrast to be overcome).

Based on the answers to those questions you can start studying the technical options and (im)possibilities (and many of the answers given will help you along quite well), and practical (and financial) consequences (as you may have gathered from many of the reactions it's not as simple as just stuffing a flash in a softbox and happily starting to shoot away)

And only then you should IMO start to, very slowly and cautiously, spend your no doubt hard earned cash.

Just to give you an example of what starting to shoot a flash in a softbox will imply:
- one, and if you intend to use the flash as mainlight under full daylight, more likely several speedlights
- a strong lightstand for your flash(es), maybe a second one to hold your reflection screen if you don't have an assistant to hold it around all the time
- reflector screens (most common are the collapsible ones like eg Lastolites)
- a reflectionscreen holder if you don't have an assistant to hold the screen all the time
- a swivelhead to mount both your flash(es) and softbox/umbrella,
- If you shoot with more speedlights a bracket that can indeed mount several of them
- if you're shooting outside some kind of counterweight to keep your lightstand + softbox / umbrella + flash(es) from falling over with each gust of wind,
- radiotriggers (prices will vary depending on TTL or non TTL types, top brand or cheapy ripp offs),
- a flashmeter if you use dumb (=non TTL metering) triggers
- not to forget batteries (rechargeable ones if you're smart, although those, including chargers, will initially will cost more then simple alkaline AA's)
and of course bags to carry all that stuff next your camera bag.

All in all adding up to quite a serious list and no doubt investment, and IMO only to be stepped into if you actually know what you are doing and how you will all use that stuff for your advantage.

If you nevertheless want to start, buy a cheapo umbrella (my recommendation silver for the highest efficiency) and swivel head ( you from what I gather already have a SB910 and two dumb triggers, and a lightstand on the way), and a piece of Styrofoam at your local home depot for a reflector screen.

Start experimenting in your backyard or at home, finding out along the way what you want, like and don't like, how to do it and become capable to repeat it. Only then start to spend the big bucks for softboxes, extra speedlights, fancy reflector screens etc.

It will take a bit longer, but you'll learn much much then from only asking on the net what to do, and end up having spent your money more wisely (after all you can only spend that once),



Edited on Sep 03, 2014 at 01:39 AM · View previous versions



Sep 02, 2014 at 05:17 PM
Mataz426
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Wanting to get started with portiats: softbox help


dmacmillan

Thanks again for the continued help. One thing I'm pretty sure is that I won't be out in harsh light if I can help it. One thing I have to do is actually take the SB910 out of the box I've had it for over six months, and it's still unopened. I bought the Bryan Peterson book (Understanding Flash Photography) and I'm really interested in the manual method. Whats nice is I can buy a cheap umbrella as I already have a stand coming.

Paul_K

So many valid points, I don't know where to start. I agree, I need to just take it one step at a time. I'm all over the place, though I'm hoping I can grasp the basic functions of the flash kind of quickly? I really don't want to shoot in midday, and yes mostly fill for shadows. Shooting at dusk might be cool also. Here is the Joe Brady I was talking about.






Sep 02, 2014 at 09:37 PM





FM Forums | Lighting & Studio Techniques | Join Upload & Sell

    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.