Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Leica & Alternative Gear | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3      
4
       5       6       end
  

Archive 2014 · Pentax 645Z: anybody get one yet?

  
 
tsjanik
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · Pentax 645Z: anybody get one yet?


Thanks Stefan. 6400 looks very usable. Did someone offer that poor woman a hand? It looks like she's about to all off a ledge!


Sep 21, 2014 at 05:16 PM
H.Lux
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · Pentax 645Z: anybody get one yet?


That women had chosen her fate deliberately, she was climbing that wall. And I had no free hand.


Sep 21, 2014 at 05:30 PM
Paul Gardner
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · Pentax 645Z: anybody get one yet?


To be blunt. I would call Pentax a liar, because they are fudging so much. Market hype is one thing, but lying is another. Personally I thing photographers in general should be calling Pentax to task for this and refusing to even talk to them.


Sep 21, 2014 at 07:33 PM
H.Lux
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · Pentax 645Z: anybody get one yet?


What is the problem?


Sep 22, 2014 at 01:12 AM
freaklikeme
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · Pentax 645Z: anybody get one yet?


Paul, I'm confused about what you want us to do. Do you want us to call Pentax and then refuse to talk to them? Do we say nothing or should we say, "I'm mad at you. Guess why." Do we hang up then or just stay on the line and be silent? Or do I call them and tell them, "Hi, I know you don't know me but I'm mad about you not consulting me on the design of a camera I wasn't particularly interested in until I actually used it. Now I want a bigger sensor, even though I understand calling it 645 was in reference to the lens mount you've kept consistent throughout your 645 line, making new cameras backwards compatible with old lenses." Something like that maybe?

A 60% larger sensor over 135 (a percentage I reversed earlier in the the thread 'cause I do good math) with a lower pixel density than some APS-C and 135 format sensors may not be your ideal, but in the existing marketplace your ideal goes for tens of thousands of dollars, and just to match what the D and Z offer, you'd still have to spend a few thousand more. So you can complain if you want to, but if Pentax gives you what you want, don't be surprised when it's several times more expensive than the current offerings.

Personally, I couldn't resist KEH's used price on a LN 645D with their 10% off all used equipment promo. For my use, I doubt I'd see much of a difference between the D and Z, and I found the D pleasingly simple to use with mostly clutter-free menus (even if they did go a little button happy). But, hey, if you do call Pentax out, Paul, please mention that 645ZII with an EVF would be pretty cool.



Sep 22, 2014 at 01:24 AM
Ian Boys
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · Pentax 645Z: anybody get one yet?


Stefan,

"Shot out of hand" bedeutet etwas ganz anderes auf Englisch und zwar etwas boeses! Besser waere "hand-held".

Hope that helps

ian



Sep 22, 2014 at 03:13 AM
Paul Gardner
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · Pentax 645Z: anybody get one yet?


Pentax may have a fine camera, but it should be described properly. An oversized 35mm similar to the S2 format, but definitely not as medium format camera. And yes complain to Pentax the major online outlets and refuse to discuss the camera with the B&M stores. The only way to stop the lying marketeers is to not buy their products.


Sep 22, 2014 at 04:43 AM
Tariq Gibran
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · Pentax 645Z: anybody get one yet?


Ian Boys wrote:
Stefan,

"Shot out of hand" bedeutet etwas ganz anderes auf Englisch und zwar etwas boeses! Besser waere "hand-held".

Hope that helps

ian


I thought "shot out of hand" sounded really cool. I knew what he meant of course but somehow it conjured up a more poetic and active image, as if birds were being released. Hand-held sounds so passive and boring.



Sep 22, 2014 at 06:12 AM
Ian Boys
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · Pentax 645Z: anybody get one yet?


"Shot out of hand" means to shoot someone without a trial. For example "two deserters were captured and shot out of hand".


Sep 22, 2014 at 07:52 AM
Tariq Gibran
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · Pentax 645Z: anybody get one yet?


Ian Boys wrote:
"Shot out of hand" means to shoot someone without a trial. For example "two deserters were captured and shot out of hand".


Interesting, I have never heard that phrase.




Sep 22, 2014 at 08:31 AM
Ian Boys
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · Pentax 645Z: anybody get one yet?


Well let's hope it's going out of fashion in the west at least.


Sep 22, 2014 at 10:22 AM
hauxon
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · Pentax 645Z: anybody get one yet?


Paul Gardner wrote:
Pentax may have a fine camera, but it should be described properly. An oversized 35mm similar to the S2 format, but definitely not as medium format camera. ....


All those people shooting digital backs like the Phase One P40 are mistakenly thinking they are shooting medium format but are in reality only shooting oversized 35mm. Poor people.



Sep 22, 2014 at 10:46 AM
mawz
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · Pentax 645Z: anybody get one yet?


Paul Gardner wrote:
Pentax may have a fine camera, but it should be described properly. An oversized 35mm similar to the S2 format, but definitely not as medium format camera. And yes complain to Pentax the major online outlets and refuse to discuss the camera with the B&M stores. The only way to stop the lying marketeers is to not buy their products.


Are you going to complain to PhaseOne as well? The IQ250 shares the same 44x33 sensor size, as does the IQ150 and P40+ as well as many of their older backs. Or Hasselblad? The H5D-50c and H5D-40 also have the same sensor size, as do many of their older backs & cameras. Or Mamiya-Leaf? The Credo 50 and Aptus 8 backs also have 44x33 sensors as do many previous backs.

44x33 has been the standard for the smaller of the two most common 645 digital sensor sizes for a decade and a half. You're complaining that Pentax uses the same terminology that has been standard in the MFDB world since long before Pentax entered the market.

You'd do better to complain to Kodak that the DCS 645 backs are both subframe and square format (so not even the right aspect ratio for 645)



Sep 22, 2014 at 10:50 AM
JonPB
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · Pentax 645Z: anybody get one yet?


Paul Gardner wrote:
Pentax may have a fine camera, but it should be described properly. An oversized 35mm similar to the S2 format, but definitely not as medium format camera. And yes complain to Pentax the major online outlets and refuse to discuss the camera with the B&M stores. The only way to stop the lying marketeers is to not buy their products.


I might be willing to agree that the 33x44mm sensors aren't medium format, if you're willing to agree that they're more accurately called large format.

In the film world, large format is 4x5" or larger, and the common "small" format is 24x36mm. In that case, large format has an area 15 times larger than small format. To make the comparison more extreme, let's compare 8x10" to half-frame cameras or APS-C, and then there's about a 120-fold difference.

In digital, most photos are taken on cameraphones, which have sensors around 3x4mm. The iPhone 5 has a slightly larger sensor, which is only 1/94th the size of a 33x44mm sensor.

So, if large format is between 15-times and 120-times larger that what most people shoot with, 33x44mm sensors definitely fall into the large format category at about 90-times larger than what most people shoot with.

Saying that Pentax is lying when they call their 645D and Z cameras "medium format" due to their sensor size is like saying that they lied when they called the 645N "medium format" because they didn't include film.

I, for one, like the Pentax brand, like it more as Pentax/Ricoh, and would not hesitate to buy from them (again) if their products met my needs. I find the 645D and Z to be rather compelling products.

Cheers,
Jon




Sep 22, 2014 at 10:54 AM
H.Lux
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #15 · p.4 #15 · Pentax 645Z: anybody get one yet?


the child has to have some name. In the film era 645 was not regarded real medium format. In the digital world, manufacturing a sensor bigger than FF (which used to be called in Germany small format) is expensive with the going presumably exponentially with size.

I love the outcome of both 645D and 645Z and that counts to me.

BTW: I did not do any harm to that woman.

Stefan



Sep 22, 2014 at 11:50 AM
Paul Gardner
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #16 · p.4 #16 · Pentax 645Z: anybody get one yet?


OK, I raised a tempest in a tea cup. At least the compact cameras state that they are "x inches" not reduced 35mm "small format". I shot 4X5s for years before going to 2-1/4







Sep 22, 2014 at 02:53 PM
mawz
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #17 · p.4 #17 · Pentax 645Z: anybody get one yet?


Paul Gardner wrote:
OK, I raised a tempest in a tea cup. At least the compact cameras state that they are "x inches" not reduced 35mm "small format". I shot 4X5s for years before going to 2-1/4


The sensor specs on all of the cameras/backs in question state sensor size in absolute dimensions, right in the same spot where those compact cameras show their 1/1.7" or 1/2.3" sensors. PhaseOne even has a nice graphic at the top of the spec list on their site showing the crop down from nominal 645 for all three of the sensor sizes they use.

The only place you see 645 is the model name & mount type. And both cases where that happens (Pentax & mamiya bodies) are cases where these are long-standing model lines & mounts which come over from film.



Sep 22, 2014 at 03:00 PM
DaveOls
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #18 · p.4 #18 · Pentax 645Z: anybody get one yet?


I've seen pictures from the older Pentax digital 645 camera on one of the forums that was of one of the canals and buildings along it of Venice at night. It was extremely impressive.


Sep 22, 2014 at 03:49 PM
curious80
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #19 · p.4 #19 · Pentax 645Z: anybody get one yet?


Paul Gardner wrote:
OK, I raised a tempest in a tea cup. At least the compact cameras state that they are "x inches" not reduced 35mm "small format". I shot 4X5s for years before going to 2-1/4


You may not be aware that the Pentax 645D was released in a market where all the MF digital bodies from all manufacturers were already using these "cropped" MF sensors for quite some time. It is understandable that you may not have been aware of that but this was/is common knowledge in digital medium format market.



Sep 22, 2014 at 04:00 PM
hauxon
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #20 · p.4 #20 · Pentax 645Z: anybody get one yet?


645 should have been named 5643!


Sep 22, 2014 at 04:18 PM
1       2       3      
4
       5       6       end




FM Forums | Leica & Alternative Gear | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3      
4
       5       6       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.