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Archive 2014 · Zeiss Loxia line

  
 
Steve Spencer
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p.37 #1 · p.37 #1 · Zeiss Loxia line


Tariq Gibran wrote:
Today I did some MFD backlit flare testing with the Canon and noticed no major focus shift either. Flares like crazy though!

In some other geeky lens research I was doing today, I saw it mentioned that lens coatings also play a role in focus shift. The specific example mentioned was Konica. Konica released two versions of their LTM Hexanon 35/2, one silver and the other a black UC-Hexanon. Both share the exact same optical design but the black UC-Hexanon has superior coatings on all lens surfaces and apparenly, some of the internal elements of the other one lack
...Show more

I sure hope that rumour is right, I have seen a few other rumours, however, about that lens on the right side of the Zeiss teaser (everything from a new Master prime to a new Touit), so I was hoping it was confirmed by Zeiss. I guess we will know for sure shortly.



Sep 11, 2014 at 08:19 PM
edwardkaraa
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p.37 #2 · p.37 #2 · Zeiss Loxia line




Steve Spencer wrote:
As I understand it focus shift is always smallest at infinity and greatest at MFD. So no focus shift at infinity might not mean no focus shift at MFD. Maybe somebody can help us understand this a bit better.

I agree that the ZM 35 f/1.4 would be very exciting. Has it been confirmed yet? Personally, that is the lens I would be interested in among these releases by Zeiss. A Loxia version would be even more interesting to me.


In my experience, and I am not an expert by any means, focus shift is proportional to the distance. It can be 2 cm at MFD, but can be 2 meters at mid distances and 200 meters at infinity. This also translates to the same travel distance of the focusing ring, therefore in order to correct for focus shift on my ZM Sonnar C 50 (now sold), I had to turn the focusing ring by around 2-3 mm. At MFD, that could only equal 5cm, but at infinity, the lens would be off by quite a lot (and visibly so).



Sep 11, 2014 at 08:34 PM
serhan_
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p.37 #3 · p.37 #3 · Zeiss Loxia line


Photokina 2014 – Zeiss Loxia Story


Sep 17, 2014 at 01:12 AM
Jman13
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p.37 #4 · p.37 #4 · Zeiss Loxia line


Hands on with image samples from me this morning:
http://admiringlight.com/blog/hands-sony-16-35-qx1-zeiss-loxia-lenses/



Sep 17, 2014 at 09:25 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.37 #5 · p.37 #5 · Zeiss Loxia line


Hey Jordan, thanks for taking all the time and effort to do these reports.


Sep 17, 2014 at 09:46 AM
philber
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p.37 #6 · p.37 #6 · Zeiss Loxia line


Steve Spencer wrote:
As I understand it focus shift is always smallest at infinity and greatest at MFD. So no focus shift at infinity might not mean no focus shift at MFD. Maybe somebody can help us understand this a bit better..


I used a lens noted for its significant focust shift, the ZE 50 Planar, f:1.4 Basically, it was only noticeable at MFD or close. As the distance to the subject increased, it was (I assume) gradually overwhelmed by the DOF, and, at infinity, there was no way to induce it. In any case, with a lens like the Loxia on a A7, I do not see how it could be problematic, unless you want to focus wide open and then stop down.




Sep 17, 2014 at 09:53 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.37 #7 · p.37 #7 · Zeiss Loxia line


serhan_ wrote:
Photokina 2014 – Zeiss Loxia Story


If you speak with the creator of the Loxia line, maybe ask him WHEN we will see a Loxia version of the ZM 35 1.4.



Sep 17, 2014 at 09:58 AM
carstenw
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p.37 #8 · p.37 #8 · Zeiss Loxia line


Or a 21 or 24!


Sep 17, 2014 at 09:59 AM
serhan_
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p.37 #9 · p.37 #9 · Zeiss Loxia line


It is not my report, I wish I am there I posted from his dpreview posting:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3726903#forum-post-54393700

Tariq Gibran wrote:
If you speak with the creator of the Loxia line, maybe ask him WHEN we will see a Loxia version of the ZM 35 1.4.





Sep 17, 2014 at 11:51 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.37 #10 · p.37 #10 · Zeiss Loxia line


philber wrote:
I used a lens noted for its significant focust shift, the ZE 50 Planar, f:1.4 Basically, it was only noticeable at MFD or close. As the distance to the subject increased, it was (I assume) gradually overwhelmed by the DOF, and, at infinity, there was no way to induce it. In any case, with a lens like the Loxia on a A7, I do not see how it could be problematic, unless you want to focus wide open and then stop down.



This is how I have experienced and understood focus shift as well. I agree unless you focus wide open and then physically stop down, then there should be no problem with focus shift on the Loxia lenses.



Sep 17, 2014 at 02:58 PM
rishio media
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p.37 #11 · p.37 #11 · Zeiss Loxia line


Luminous Landscape Interviews Richard Schleuning of Zeiss about the new Loxia Lens Line for Sony FE Mount and explains why it works better on the eMount than the ZM line. A good little piece and the guy seems to know what he's talking about



It starts 20 seconds in..



Sep 18, 2014 at 03:07 PM
theSuede
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p.37 #12 · p.37 #12 · Zeiss Loxia line


Focal shift is almost entirely dependent on spherical aberration. For practical purposes, I'd say that about 95% of the focus shift is SA dependent.

So where in the distance range you get more/less shift depends entirely on how the designer optimized the lens. Many Zeiss lenses are optimized for infinity (or actually - near infinity) sharpness. That means they designed the lens to have minimum SA deviation at that focal setting.

With most "normal" lens constructions, that unfortunately also means that you get nissen bokeh ("bright-ring bokeh") when shooting targets further away than maybe 100x focal length.

Away from that setting, spherical aberration will increase, and typically in the "wrong" direction. That is; the direction where it already deviates to at its' "best" setting.
One of the things about older Zeiss lenses, especially the planars, is that this also results in quite linearly positive SA.

That means that they have smooth bokeh when shot at closer ranges, at least when stopped down at least 1/3Ev from WO. But they also get lower fine detail contrast. The resolution might still be there, but in a lower contrast.



Sep 18, 2014 at 07:40 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.37 #13 · p.37 #13 · Zeiss Loxia line


rishio media wrote:
Luminous Landscape Interviews Richard Schleuning of Zeiss about the new Loxia Lens Line for Sony FE Mount and explains why it works better on the eMount than the ZM line. A good little piece and the guy seems to know what he's talking about



It starts 20 seconds in..


It sounded like the Zeiss representative said the Loxia Biogon 35/2 would be available in October right at the end of that segment. Previously, I thought it was much later - end of December.




Sep 18, 2014 at 08:11 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.37 #14 · p.37 #14 · Zeiss Loxia line




theSuede wrote:
Focal shift is almost entirely dependent on spherical aberration. For practical purposes, I'd say that about 95% of the focus shift is SA dependent.

So where in the distance range you get more/less shift depends entirely on how the designer optimized the lens. Many Zeiss lenses are optimized for infinity (or actually - near infinity) sharpness. That means they designed the lens to have minimum SA deviation at that focal setting.

With most "normal" lens constructions, that unfortunately also means that you get nissen bokeh ("bright-ring bokeh") when shooting targets further away than maybe 100x focal length.

Away from that setting, spherical aberration
...Show more
Thanks. As usual very clear and it makes sense of what appeared to be contradictions.



Sep 18, 2014 at 08:31 PM
sebboh
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p.37 #15 · p.37 #15 · Zeiss Loxia line


theSuede wrote:
Focal shift is almost entirely dependent on spherical aberration. For practical purposes, I'd say that about 95% of the focus shift is SA dependent.

So where in the distance range you get more/less shift depends entirely on how the designer optimized the lens. Many Zeiss lenses are optimized for infinity (or actually - near infinity) sharpness. That means they designed the lens to have minimum SA deviation at that focal setting.

With most "normal" lens constructions, that unfortunately also means that you get nissen bokeh ("bright-ring bokeh") when shooting targets further away than maybe 100x focal length.

Away from that setting, spherical aberration
...Show more

thanks! this explains why nissen bokeh often disappears at certain focus distances.

so would would be able to determine what distance the lens is optimized for by finding the distance that produces the hardest bright ring on oof highlights?




Sep 18, 2014 at 08:38 PM
serhan_
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p.37 #16 · p.37 #16 · Zeiss Loxia line


At optyczne.pl:

Loxia Zeiss 2/50 - first pictures

Loxia Zeiss 2/35 - first pictures



Sep 19, 2014 at 05:45 PM
Peter Le
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p.37 #17 · p.37 #17 · Zeiss Loxia line


serhan_ wrote:
At optyczne.pl:

Loxia Zeiss 2/50 - first pictures

Loxia Zeiss 2/35 - first pictures


Can't tell much from the 35 shots.....they are all much closer then most people would generally ever shot a 35.



Sep 19, 2014 at 08:13 PM
uhoh7
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p.37 #18 · p.37 #18 · Zeiss Loxia line


Steve Spencer wrote:
I can't imagine that anyone using MF would try to do what Rouse was doing in the AF tests 2 & 3. Instead, you would pick a spot where you would expect the owl to fly to in test 2 or the otter run to in test 3, focus on that spot and try to capture the image as the animal came to that spot. I do think that somebody like Doug (but not me) could get excellent images of these animals using such a technique, but I can also see why most togs would prefer to have AF
...Show more
+1

There's a big difference between bird photography and sports photography.

I shoot action sports often with my M9, usually skiing, and my keeper rate is decent. It's actually fairly easy with practice. But light is important: if it's bright you can go right to f/8 and still freeze skiers: with a very reasonable DOF.

The A7 is a similar story:
Here is A7 with Minolta 200/5, MF obviously:

DSC08156 by unoh7, on Flickr

But when it gets dim, or if you want to see a wing stopped in flight, you need wider apertures and it gets alot tougher.

Here is Herr's MF one time lens of choice, the leica 400/6.8 on the A7

DSC09857 by unoh7,

You have to look hard, and be very used to the lens

But Wildlife guys do often go to MF in certain situations. AF can fail in dim light or with other distractions, so it's far from reliable all the time.

A Sony A7s might be a formidable MF machine in many action situations, simply because you could shoot with both a fast shutter and f/8 aperture, and still maybe get something not too noisy.

artur5 wrote:
http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/jpeg/9cb26583f431db8f6a26c36cf369bcc91b015015.jpg

Looking at the optical designs of the Loxia 35 and the ZM35, does anybody really expect a significant difference in the performance of those lenses on Sony A7x cameras ?. They're 98% identical, even the distance from the rear element to the focal plane is the same and the rear blocks are twin brothers.


One thing could be different in a meaningful way.

I read a long interview with the A7 design team, and there was discussion about how the processor could help make the edges better at wide apertures and the whole image more clear at very small apertures. IF the camera recognizes the lens. If not, none of that works.

That was my impression after reading the translation about 10 times

I'm pretty sure this is why the FE35 is better on the A7r than anything else at 35FL.

So I'd bet the A7x will recognise the Loxia and maybe able to improve things a bit.

TY for interesting post

rishio media wrote:
Luminous Landscape Interviews Richard Schleuning of Zeiss about the new Loxia Lens Line for Sony FE Mount and explains why it works better on the eMount than the ZM line. A good little piece and the guy seems to know what he's talking about



It starts 20 seconds in..

good catch there, too bad we don't get to see the samples.

I'd love to know what the "tweaks" were

I'm surprised how close to the zm biogon the loxia apparently is.

That said, he is very clear the lens is way better on the A7r, and untill we know otherwise, I give him the benefit of the doubt





Sep 19, 2014 at 09:29 PM
serhan_
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p.37 #19 · p.37 #19 · Zeiss Loxia line


Interesting Zeiss interview about Loxia, m43 and Ikon:
Photokina 2014: Interview with Zeiss product manager Christophe Casenave: Loxia, Touit, MFT and more

and Loxia first impessions:
Photokina 2014: First impressions of the Zeiss Loxia lenses for Sony E-mount

Interesting Loxia 35mm bokeh shot:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/cklppt/15085608488/sizes/l

Edited on Sep 21, 2014 at 02:00 PM · View previous versions



Sep 20, 2014 at 01:15 PM
charles.K
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p.37 #20 · p.37 #20 · Zeiss Loxia line


I am really liking what I see with the sample images with the Loxia 35 and 50 From what I have seen so far, the rendering is excellent as is the size and weight. I do think Zeiss are testing the market here, and making sure that are not investing too heavily in new untested designs, until there is product acceptance. It is possible, the majority of A7/A7r/A7s users may just opt for FE primes and the Zooms. I feel that we on FM, remain more of niche market, and may not reflect the direction of the market. I do know many people that have opted for the A7r or A7s, and are very happy with the FE 35/55. I did suggest that they try some of my MF lenses, but many are not interested!

The FE 55 is a great lens, and the FE 35 is very good for a f/2.8 lens, but at times I think these lack some personality when they are stopped down. Of course there are many other lenses available that work great and do provide the varying styles of rendering when needed.

I feel the Loxia's will be great addition for both the A7r and A7s. I will be lining up for both of these



Sep 20, 2014 at 08:33 PM
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