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Archive 2014 · Rumor: X-T1 firmware update to bring 1/32000 shutter speed!

  
 
rji2goleez
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Rumor: X-T1 firmware update to bring 1/32000 shutter speed!


This would be fun with wider aperture lenses in bright light!

http://www.fujirumors.com/new-firmware-will-bring-faster-shutter-speed-132000-better-movie-capabilities-faster-af-new-source/



Aug 22, 2014 at 07:32 AM
Dave McGaughey
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Rumor: X-T1 firmware update to bring 1/32000 shutter speed!


Wait, they can program in an electronic shutter? Does that mean the X-Sync could be raised from 1/180th? That'd be a "game changer" if they could do both.


Aug 22, 2014 at 08:51 AM
Jman13
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Rumor: X-T1 firmware update to bring 1/32000 shutter speed!


I doubt the sync speed will change. If this is true, it'd be great...I could use my 56/1.2 in full sunlight wide open without having to slap an ND filter on.


Aug 22, 2014 at 08:53 AM
kwalsh
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Rumor: X-T1 firmware update to bring 1/32000 shutter speed!


Dave McGaughey wrote:
Wait, they can program in an electronic shutter? Does that mean the X-Sync could be raised from 1/180th? That'd be a "game changer" if they could do both.


It would be an electronic rolling shutter - it already has one if it can shoot video, this would just be letting be used for stills. Depending on the sensor and processing chain this is something that can be added later via FW updates. So no, you couldn't use it for high flash sync speeds since the electronic rolling shutter is most likely slower than 1/180th in top to bottom scan time.



Aug 22, 2014 at 09:46 AM
apsphoto
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Rumor: X-T1 firmware update to bring 1/32000 shutter speed!


kwalsh wrote:
It would be an electronic rolling shutter - it already has one if it can shoot video, this would just be letting be used for stills. Depending on the sensor and processing chain this is something that can be added later via FW updates. So no, you couldn't use it for high flash sync speeds since the electronic rolling shutter is most likely slower than 1/180th in top to bottom scan time.


Maybe I do not understand, which is possible, if the rolling shutter takes 1/180th then how are they going to get a faster shutter? I would assume that would be the fastest possible with the electronic shutter then....

Alan



Aug 22, 2014 at 01:03 PM
kwalsh
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Rumor: X-T1 firmware update to bring 1/32000 shutter speed!


So your mechanical shutter only moves at 1/180th which is why the sync speed is 1/180th and yet it exposes up to 1/4000th or 1/8000th since the two curtains follow each other very closely. In other words at fast speeds your mechanical shutter is a slit that sweeps the sensor.

Same story with an electronic shutter except typically the "curtains" (on a sensor, row reset and row read) move more slowly than the mechanical curtains and the "slit" can be very narrow (one or two rows of pixels in size). As a result the electronic rolling shutter usually has a slower sync speed than the mechanical but a faster maximum exposure speed.

Google "electronic rolling shutter" for more details.



Aug 22, 2014 at 01:52 PM
apsphoto
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Rumor: X-T1 firmware update to bring 1/32000 shutter speed!


Thanks for the explanation I will google it as well.

Alan



Aug 22, 2014 at 01:56 PM
sflxn
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Rumor: X-T1 firmware update to bring 1/32000 shutter speed!


Yeah, ok. A firmware giving this camera unbelievably fast shutter speed is as believable as the E-M1 getting 4K video and high frame rate video with a firmware update. The fastest consumer e-shutter is on the Panasonics with 1/16000. The Fuji has a bigger sensor. What's up with all the rumors of magical firmwares?


Aug 22, 2014 at 02:00 PM
pdrober2
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Rumor: X-T1 firmware update to bring 1/32000 shutter speed!


sflxn wrote:
Yeah, ok. A firmware giving this camera unbelievably fast shutter speed is as believable as the E-M1 getting 4K video and high frame rate video with a firmware update. The fastest consumer e-shutter is on the Panasonics with 1/16000. The Fuji has a bigger sensor. What's up with all the rumors of magical firmwares?


what else would we talk about?



Aug 22, 2014 at 02:12 PM
gpop
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Rumor: X-T1 firmware update to bring 1/32000 shutter speed!


will the firmware come with a new top dial?

(snark)



Aug 22, 2014 at 02:29 PM
MagicNikon
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Rumor: X-T1 firmware update to bring 1/32000 shutter speed!


And still no improved Auto Exposure Bracketing.


Aug 22, 2014 at 02:41 PM
sflxn
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Rumor: X-T1 firmware update to bring 1/32000 shutter speed!


It's easy to find out if this is possible. Someone can look up the specs for this sensor. It's a Sony (or a Sony-derived Toshiba) sensor so the data sheet is public. Reading the comments on the fujirumor site is rather humorous. They actually believe it's possible... today. If this was possible, wouldn't Sony have added this into the NEX years ago? This sensor is several years old. I'm betting most of the fujirumors commentors believe Fuji makes the sensor. Contrast this with the comments on the 43rumor site on the E-M1 getting 4K with a firmware update where the commentors were highly skeptical.


Aug 22, 2014 at 02:58 PM
justruss
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Rumor: X-T1 firmware update to bring 1/32000 shutter speed!


sflxn wrote:
It's easy to find out if this is possible. Someone can look up the specs for this sensor. It's a Sony (or a Sony-derived Toshiba) sensor so the data sheet is public. Reading the comments on the fujirumor site is rather humorous. They actually believe it's possible... today. If this was possible, wouldn't Sony have added this into the NEX years ago? This sensor is several years old. I'm betting most of the fujirumors commentors believe Fuji makes the sensor. Contrast this with the comments on the 43rumor site on the E-M1 getting 4K with a firmware update where the
...Show more

It is funny indeed reading the comments on the Fujirumors site... a very credulous bunch, for the most part.



Aug 24, 2014 at 07:39 AM
rattymouse
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Rumor: X-T1 firmware update to bring 1/32000 shutter speed!


sflxn wrote:
It's easy to find out if this is possible. Someone can look up the specs for this sensor. It's a Sony (or a Sony-derived Toshiba) sensor so the data sheet is public. Reading the comments on the fujirumor site is rather humorous. They actually believe it's possible... today. If this was possible, wouldn't Sony have added this into the NEX years ago? This sensor is several years old. I'm betting most of the fujirumors commentors believe Fuji makes the sensor. Contrast this with the comments on the 43rumor site on the E-M1 getting 4K with a firmware update where the
...Show more

Fujifilm hasn't made any sensors since they close down their CCD fab many years ago. Since then it has been all Toshiba and Sony sensors that go into Fujifilm cameras.



Aug 24, 2014 at 07:49 AM
molson
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Rumor: X-T1 firmware update to bring 1/32000 shutter speed!


sflxn wrote:
If this was possible, wouldn't Sony have added this into the NEX years ago?


Well, for starters, no one at Sony appears to have a clue about what serious photographers actually want to do with cameras, so this likely hasn't occurred to them.



Aug 24, 2014 at 11:43 AM
LightShow
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Rumor: X-T1 firmware update to bring 1/32000 shutter speed!


molson wrote:
Well, for starters, no one at Sony appears to have a clue about what serious photographers actually want to do with cameras, so this likely hasn't occurred to them.

+1

1/32000? I'll believe it when I see it.



Aug 25, 2014 at 01:48 AM
sflxn
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Rumor: X-T1 firmware update to bring 1/32000 shutter speed!


Wow, this thing is actually real. I gotta eat crow then. I'm very curious about how they did this. If it is a base Sony sensor as everyone believes it is, how did they do this? Could it be upcoming tech that Sony gave Fuji early access? SAR is reporting the next gen of Sony sensors are coming in January. Perhaps Fuji got a head start? I only know of 3 other ocmpanies making APS-C sensors. Samsung, Toshiba, and Cimosys (not sure). Aptina was rumored to be working on one. The Toshiba sensor is based on Sony's. Cimosys has a FF sensor but maybe it's wrong to assume they have an APS-C sensor. Another possibility is adding the e-shutter into the layer on top of the sensor. There was a Nikon patent a few years ago for this exact technology. They put the e-shutter into the AA filter or the CFA.


Sep 10, 2014 at 01:57 PM
kwalsh
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Rumor: X-T1 firmware update to bring 1/32000 shutter speed!


sflxn wrote:
Wow, this thing is actually real. I gotta eat crow then.


I'm impressed you came back to admit that. When I saw today's announcement I actually thought of your previous post. Kudos!


I'm very curious about how they did this. If it is a base Sony sensor as everyone believes it is, how did they do this? Could it be upcoming tech that Sony gave Fuji early access?


It actually isn't rocket science at all and pretty much every sensor on the market from Sony and nearly everyone else is capable or very close to capable of doing this. If you support video you can do a stills electronic rolling shutter. In fact all the NEX cameras have used first curtain electronic shutters for a long time now and so that's a big reason to expect that the sensors already supported everything they needed for electronic rolling shutters for still photography. The question is whether you think the feature is worthwhile supporting given the trade offs...

The main trade-off is jello effect. I've yet to see anything specify what the readout speed of this 1/32000 mode is. I'm guessing it is around 1/10 to 1/20th in which case it will be of little utility for fast moving subjects or hand-held telephoto. Once you try to support a faster read-out than that you start to lose DR (this is the case with the GM1 and GH4). So it is quite possible Sony sees no need to implement this on their cameras even if the sensors have supported it all along.

Another possibility is adding the e-shutter into the layer on top of the sensor. There was a Nikon patent a few years ago for this exact technology. They put the e-shutter into the AA filter or the CFA.

I haven't the foggiest how that would work, but I think you are confusing e-shutter technologies. This is a rolling shutter, something pretty much every CMOS sensor since the beginning of CMOS sensors has supported in one form or another. Most only use it on video, many do use it for a first curtain (that'd be almost all NEX and most Canon in liveview mode) and a few use it as a optional stills electronic shutter (most Panasonic and now Fuji too).

What you are probably thinking of is a global electronic shutter. No one implements those for consumer cameras, way too big a hit in IQ - takes up lots of sensor area and thus reduces noise performance quite a bit.

Cheers!



Sep 10, 2014 at 02:15 PM
sflxn
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Rumor: X-T1 firmware update to bring 1/32000 shutter speed!


The Fuji guys confirmed it in their video. They said 1/32000. This isn't EFCS. They said it will provide complete silent shutter. With EFCS, there is still a mechanical shutter involved. I believe they are not achieving this through the sensor, but with a layer on top. We'll soon find out. I'm sure everyone is scratching their head trying to figure this out. Fuji will likely explain this.


Sep 10, 2014 at 02:26 PM
mogul
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Rumor: X-T1 firmware update to bring 1/32000 shutter speed!


The silent mode of the Sony A7s is an electronic shutter and has limited uses as per discussion.


Sep 10, 2014 at 02:28 PM
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