Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Leica & Alternative Gear | Join Upload & Sell

1      
2
       3              8       9       end
  

Archive 2014 · Zeiss FE manual lenses at photokina

  
 
philber
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Zeiss FE manual lenses at photokina


The clever (as usual) analysis of Steve notwithstanding, I feel otherwise. The most recent line developped by Zeiss is the Touit, for mirrorless cameras. My guess is that they will build on that for not only FE, but also crop. only, very probably due to an agreement Sony the lenses will be MF.
I am not at all worried by their ability to master the A7R even for wide angle because of the excellent performance of the Touit 12mm on the touchy NEX 7.
If they do extend the Touit line for both sensor sizes, it will give them more volume, and that should help the price points. Another indication in this direction is that the Touits have been discounted so heavily it feels almost like a liquidation of existing items.

What I guess they will do? One wide angle, probably 21mm f:2.8. One macro lens, probably 50mm f:2.0. One fast short tele, probably 85 f:1.4



Aug 21, 2014 at 04:31 AM
Sami Ruusunen
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Zeiss FE manual lenses at photokina


Beni wrote:
In which case it wouldn't be that many lenses this fast. That's rather over optimistic to assume. How long after NEX/43rds came out did the touits appear?


How do you know when Zeiss started developing these incoming lenses? I would be amazed if Zeiss/Sony didn't exchange information beforehand about the development of A7 series. Another thing is that it's much faster to design and start manufacturing manual focus lenses with tight tolerances than the AF lens with lots of variables.



Aug 21, 2014 at 05:25 AM
ricardovaste
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Zeiss FE manual lenses at photokina


coffeeshakes wrote:
Ricardovaste, I think the current ZM line is pretty mature, I'm not sure if there is much push to continue developing there. Think on the good side, if Zeiss does release these lenses, there will be a bunch of ZM glass on the used market!


Is it too mature though? My basic understanding is that although many like the ZM lenses and many are wonderful performers, they are still almost all film-era lenses. And so not all of them fair so well. Do any of the 21mm ZM lenses or the 18mm ZM lens really perform great on FF digital? I know they have that £3k 15mm, which is new and made in Germany. But the 85/4 is pretty slow for many, the 85/2 long discontinued. I think even the 35/2 isn't so great on digital? I think you get what I mean anyway, that is sort of what I meant with my first remark.

But maybe I should count my blessings. I am the one who complains about modern lenses being too clinical



Aug 21, 2014 at 05:31 AM
edwardkaraa
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Zeiss FE manual lenses at photokina


ZM lenses are great performers on digital RF, as good or better than Leica equivalent lenses. Zeiss was working on a new ZM wide aperture lens, rumored to be a 35mm, to be released by end of 2013. The plan was cancelled due to the introduction of the A7 and the new manual focus FE line.


Aug 21, 2014 at 06:01 AM
Massimo Foti
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Zeiss FE manual lenses at photokina


I am afraid the main bottleneck is Zeiss's design capacity, on average, how many newly designed lenses they release per year? Not that many...


Aug 21, 2014 at 06:21 AM
edwardkaraa
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Zeiss FE manual lenses at photokina




Massimo Foti wrote:
I am afraid the main bottleneck is Zeiss's design capacity, on average, how many newly designed lenses they release per year? Not that many...


That is absolutely not the case. Zeiss has an enormous work of designs that has never been implemented. The bottleneck is the production capacity at Cosina.



Aug 21, 2014 at 06:26 AM
AhamB
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Zeiss FE manual lenses at photokina


ricardovaste wrote:
Is it too mature though? My basic understanding is that although many like the ZM lenses and many are wonderful performers, they are still almost all film-era lenses. And so not all of them fair so well. Do any of the 21mm ZM lenses or the 18mm ZM lens really perform great on FF digital? I know they have that £3k 15mm, which is new and made in Germany. But the 85/4 is pretty slow for many, the 85/2 long discontinued. I think even the 35/2 isn't so great on digital? I think you get what I mean anyway,
...Show more

As far as I know the ZM lenses are calibrated for use on the Ikon, so I guess that says something about Zeiss' commitment to make these lenses perform well on digital. I'm guessing that the FE mount will probably give them a lot more sales too.



Aug 21, 2014 at 06:41 AM
Massimo Foti
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Zeiss FE manual lenses at photokina


edwardkaraa wrote:
That is absolutely not the case. Zeiss has an enormous work of designs that has never been implemented. The bottleneck is the production capacity at Cosina.


I was referring to FE lenses, assuming we were talking about newly designed lenses (versus adapting existing designs to FE).
Are you talking about FM lenses instead?

I have no idea about Zeiss's current design capacity, but I haven't seen that many new releases coming from them each year, so I would be surprised if they would release many newly designed lenses within a short amount of time.
Again, I am just wild guessing here. I would love to hear from people that know better.





Aug 21, 2014 at 07:56 AM
edwardkaraa
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Zeiss FE manual lenses at photokina



AhamB wrote:
As far as I know the ZM lenses are calibrated for use on the Ikon, so I guess that says something about Zeiss' commitment to make these lenses perform well on digital. I'm guessing that the FE mount will probably give them a lot more sales too.


This is what Zeiss claims, but that is not true. Zeiss and Leica have a long history of cooperation and they will never encroach on each other territory. Zeiss is well aware that 99% of the ZM lenses are used on M digital bodies and they are all calibrated to work well with them. The Zeiss Ikon was never meant to sell. It was a mere excuse to produce the ZM line. The FE lenses may or may not give them substantial more sales, because they're manual focus, but that's a source of additional income, while the ZM is already an established, well rounded and well proven line.



Aug 21, 2014 at 09:08 AM
naturephoto1
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Zeiss FE manual lenses at photokina


When I spoke with the Zeiss rep at PhotoPlus in October of last year, he indicated that Zeiss would need to review which designs that they could work from and quite possibly come with entirely new designs. The new lenses were to have included the built in adapters with the appropriate length to make up for the distance of the E-mount full frame. Additionally, the lenses were to able to conduct all EXIF information to the camera. A big questions regarding the lenses beyond the optical designs, focal lengths and lens speed is whether they will incorporate a lens aperture ring in the design. I hope so, but I am afraid that they will not. We have less than a month till Photkina and a little over 2 months to PhotoPlus.

Rich



Aug 21, 2014 at 09:22 AM
Matt Grum
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Zeiss FE manual lenses at photokina


Exciting times indeed, I'm putting my request in for a 21mm f/4 and 35mm f/1.4!

A short time ago on SAR there was a mention from Zeiss about "very fast" lenses which has to mean f/1.4. Given the two ZA lenses a 35mm f/2 would be a little redundant, as would a 50mm f/1.4.

I know a 35 f/1.4 would be heavy but no more so than the Voigtlander 35 f/1.2.

I'm sure we are going to see entirely new designs, in the vein of the Touit line (maybe even a scaled up Touit 12mm). Probalby two lenses available soon with more coming early next year. I think the rumour of 5 Zeiss lenses will be spread over a year or so.



Aug 21, 2014 at 09:30 AM
Dpedraza
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Zeiss FE manual lenses at photokina


edwardkaraa wrote:
ZM lenses are great performers on digital RF, as good or better than Leica equivalent lenses. Zeiss was working on a new ZM wide aperture lens, rumored to be a 35mm, to be released by end of 2013. The plan was cancelled due to the introduction of the A7 and the new manual focus FE line.

The zm 18 and 21 work well on the a7s i've seen as well



Aug 21, 2014 at 09:34 AM
edwardkaraa
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Zeiss FE manual lenses at photokina




Dpedraza wrote:
The zm 18 and 21 work well on the a7s i've seen as well


But not as good as I would like them to. They perform much better on a Leica M body, so it's a real pity that the peripheral performance drops so much only because of a piece of thick glass on top of the sensor



Aug 21, 2014 at 09:48 AM
Dpedraza
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Zeiss FE manual lenses at photokina


The a7s? not a7s as is series The images I've seen on the a7s they weren't terrible much better than the a7 and a7r.


Aug 21, 2014 at 10:01 AM
carstenw
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Zeiss FE manual lenses at photokina


Beni wrote:
Wish I could believe that it will be anything other than the existing ZF line with an adaptor and contacts for FE. Cummon folks, you can't design an entire new lens line for a new type of mount, smaller than your ZF line and a different design to your ZM line and come to production with all of them simultaneously in less than a year. If it was that easy Sony might have more than two primes out by now.


This hasn't been Zeiss' strategy in the past, and I really don't believe that they will do that. They will take the opportunity to develop new lenses, I am sure, or at least properly modify existing designs for the new size/weight/price requirements.



Aug 21, 2014 at 10:03 AM
Steve Spencer
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Zeiss FE manual lenses at photokina


Dpedraza wrote:
The zm 18 and 21 work well on the a7s i've seen as well


My take is that the A7s has notably less colour cast and the smearing isn't as obvious because the resolution is lower, but is still there. In looking at quite a few samples I think the problem with the ZM 18 is primarily colour cast and so it looks quite good on the A7s, but the 21mm lenses have smearing and I have seen that in looking at A7s samples as well. I do think it would be possible to modify the ZM 18 to account for the thicker cover glass and tune it performance for the A7 cameras. I don't think this is possible for the 21s, but I would be glad to be wrong.



Aug 21, 2014 at 10:03 AM
carstenw
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Zeiss FE manual lenses at photokina


Beni wrote:
In which case it wouldn't be that many lenses this fast. That's rather over optimistic to assume. How long after NEX/43rds came out did the touits appear?


I think they just didn't see the business case for them as clearly. Since they are doing this at all, I am guessing that the Touits were at least a qualified success, saleswise.



Aug 21, 2014 at 10:05 AM
uhoh7
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Zeiss FE manual lenses at photokina


zm18 coded as pre-asph 21 is just sick on the M9.

Spoils you.

the other day:

L1018544 by unoh7, zm18


L1018554 by unoh7, zm18

Edited on Aug 21, 2014 at 11:12 AM · View previous versions



Aug 21, 2014 at 11:04 AM
Steve Spencer
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Zeiss FE manual lenses at photokina


philber wrote:
The clever (as usual) analysis of Steve notwithstanding, I feel otherwise. The most recent line developped by Zeiss is the Touit, for mirrorless cameras. My guess is that they will build on that for not only FE, but also crop. only, very probably due to an agreement Sony the lenses will be MF.
I am not at all worried by their ability to master the A7R even for wide angle because of the excellent performance of the Touit 12mm on the touchy NEX 7.
If they do extend the Touit line for both sensor sizes, it will give them more volume,
...Show more

As usual Phillipe that is an interesting analysis. I do think that having the lenses be useable on both sensor sizes would be a benefit. With that in mind, however, I think an 18, 24, & 35 make a lot of sense. The 18 would be close to a 28 equivalent, the 24 close to a 35 equivalent, and the 35 close to 50 equivalent (although already having the 32 touit might be an argument against a 35). This argument might make a 55 more appealing as well, but I don't see the logic of a 50 f/2 macro with the touit 50 f/2.8 macro already out there. A fast or relatively fast (f/1.4 or f/2) could make a lot of sense as well as it would make a nice 125-135 for the APS-C sensor as well.



Aug 21, 2014 at 11:09 AM
Steve Spencer
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Zeiss FE manual lenses at photokina


Matt Grum wrote:
Exciting times indeed, I'm putting my request in for a 21mm f/4 and 35mm f/1.4!

A short time ago on SAR there was a mention from Zeiss about "very fast" lenses which has to mean f/1.4. Given the two ZA lenses a 35mm f/2 would be a little redundant, as would a 50mm f/1.4.

I know a 35 f/1.4 would be heavy but no more so than the Voigtlander 35 f/1.2.

I'm sure we are going to see entirely new designs, in the vein of the Touit line (maybe even a scaled up Touit 12mm). Probalby two lenses available soon with more
...Show more

I would love to see a 35 f/1.4. I hope you are right, but my worry is they never made a ZM 35 f/1.4 and Leica has had an M 35 f/1.4 for about 3 decades, so if they went 35 f/2 and f/2.8 for the ZM line maybe they will do the same again. I really hope I am wrong as a good 35 f/1.4 is at the top of my wish list. I don't think the lens would have to be huge. Both the Leica M 35 f/1.4 (in all 4 of its varieties) and the CV 35 f/1.2 are plenty small enough for me and all work or are close enough to working on the A7 cameras that it makes me believe that Zeiss could make a fairly small 35 f/1.4. Just let it have the bokeh of the ZE 35 f/1.4 and not the bokeh of the Leica 35 f/1.4 ASPH FLE.



Aug 21, 2014 at 11:16 AM
1      
2
       3              8       9       end




FM Forums | Leica & Alternative Gear | Join Upload & Sell

1      
2
       3              8       9       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.