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Archive 2014 · Kila'uea Volcano vent - lava lake glow

  
 
Michael H
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Kila'uea Volcano vent - lava lake glow


Hello all,

After many years here I think this will be my first post in this section. Thought I'd give it a whirl! I recently posted these two images in the Landscape forum, but received very little feedback there, but got some really good feedback from other sources. I'd love to hear your thoughts on these. My thought for the looser image is that it loses impact when presented in this small format. To me at least, it looks pretty good on a large calibrated monitor. Okay enough from me. I don't want to influence any feedback. By the way, these were taken the night before Hurricane Iselle hit the big island. The clouds seen are the approaching storm.

Edit: The first is a de-fished Canon 15mm Fisheye, the second is un-cropped 35/1,4 on a MarkIV







Kila-uea Moon







Caldera Glow



Edited on Aug 20, 2014 at 02:04 PM · View previous versions



Aug 20, 2014 at 12:49 PM
ben egbert
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Kila'uea Volcano vent - lava lake glow


Because you don't have a milky way type shot here, a broad sky expanse is not as important.

The volcanic glow provides a nice light source for the terrestrial portion and a tighter crop helps avoid lots of deep shadow areas.

That said, 2 is my vote and nicely done.



Aug 20, 2014 at 01:42 PM
Oregon Gal
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Kila'uea Volcano vent - lava lake glow


ben egbert wrote:
Because you don't have a milky way type shot here, a broad sky expanse is not as important.

The volcanic glow provides a nice light source for the terrestrial portion and a tighter crop helps avoid lots of deep shadow areas.

That said, 2 is my vote and nicely done.


I agree with Ben's assessment, the moon does nothing to add interest to the image. The second with tighter crop works much better in my opinion.



Aug 20, 2014 at 03:07 PM
BenV
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Kila'uea Volcano vent - lava lake glow


I like the first one, but the issue I have with it is there is nothing going on in the foreground. It's all about the lava and moon, neither of which have much detail in them. Then my eyes want to go to the sky, but there's not much going on in the sky either. But I like the attempt, it has potential.


Aug 20, 2014 at 04:29 PM
sbeme
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Kila'uea Volcano vent - lava lake glow


ben egbert wrote:
Because you don't have a milky way type shot here, a broad sky expanse is not as important.

The volcanic glow provides a nice light source for the terrestrial portion and a tighter crop helps avoid lots of deep shadow areas.

That said, 2 is my vote and nicely done.


Yup.
Nice image!
Scott



Aug 20, 2014 at 08:39 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Kila'uea Volcano vent - lava lake glow


Outa my league for a capture and sight that I'll likely never experience ... hard to imagine what it may have been like to have been there. Hard to assess how to approach the shot in real time while taking this in on a personal level.

I suspect that the response elsewhere may have been related to the blown areas and maybe some noise. Wondering if you have an other bracketed shots of lesser exposure to blend in.

Also, given the ovality of the crater, the strong horizon and the linear cloud formation ... a possible crop to more of a pano. Losing some foreground and sky doesn't seem to lose any significant information to the viewer, unless you are desiring to present the deeper sky with more emphasis. I think the message is amply sent without the extra upper space and keeps the viewer a bit tighter @ main thing is the main thing.

Speaking of tighter ... wondering if you have one just a bit wider than doesn't cut into the caldera?

Here's a rough pano crop to show what I was thinking. Conversely, a portrait orientation for the included moon image. This time using the expanse of the sky/space to give perspective to the earth/moon. Last one is an effort to pull down the impact of the blown areas a bit, which includes cropping out some of it.

Personally, I think I prefer the message in the earth & sky, moon & stars ... which includes a view "inside" the earth.
Much to like (but I do wish it wasn't blown) and I'm sure you have your crop pref ... just some alt considerations, thinking I prefer your first one the best @ message/perspective.

















Aug 21, 2014 at 02:02 AM
Michael H
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Kila'uea Volcano vent - lava lake glow


ben egbert wrote:
Because you don't have a milky way type shot here, a broad sky expanse is not as important.

The volcanic glow provides a nice light source for the terrestrial portion and a tighter crop helps avoid lots of deep shadow areas.

That said, 2 is my vote and nicely done.


Thanks Ben. I would tend to agree with your assessment about it not being a Milky Way shot. The night was not right to even attempt that kind of shot (too bright with the moon) but I know that would also make a big difference on a scale as presented here.

I believe some impact and certainly detail is lost here and the sky does become a big black nothing. The flip side of this is that this is really what it's like. It is a pretty expansive / nothing kind of space. The fisheye view does exaggerate that as well. The light source of the caldera was also augmented by the moon. The last time I was there was a dark night and I really had no lighting on the areas around the bowl.




Aug 21, 2014 at 10:23 AM
Michael H
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Kila'uea Volcano vent - lava lake glow


Oregon Gal wrote:
I agree with Ben's assessment, the moon does nothing to add interest to the image. The second with tighter crop works much better in my opinion.


Thanks for the feedback! I completely agree in this small scale. The detail gets completely lost.

Cheers

Mike



Aug 21, 2014 at 10:24 AM
Michael H
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Kila'uea Volcano vent - lava lake glow


BenV wrote:
I like the first one, but the issue I have with it is there is nothing going on in the foreground. It's all about the lava and moon, neither of which have much detail in them. Then my eyes want to go to the sky, but there's not much going on in the sky either. But I like the attempt, it has potential.


Thanks Ben. In hindsight, I wish I would have grabbed a couple frames of the moon exposed properly. The lava, well, that's a completely different story. This is not a direct view of the lava, but rather, the glow of the lava lake below and out of sight. I've found to get anything of interest takes a bit longer exposure which obviously blows it out. Even the shorter timed frames I have finds the hot spots blown out.

I want to get up there next time and spend more time working with it. I alsways prefer single frame over stacking shots but I might have to with this place.



Aug 21, 2014 at 10:28 AM
Michael H
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Kila'uea Volcano vent - lava lake glow


RustyBug wrote:
Outa my league for a capture and sight that I'll likely never experience ... hard to imagine what it may have been like to have been there. Hard to assess how to approach the shot in real time while taking this in on a personal level.

I suspect that the response elsewhere may have been related to the blown areas and maybe some noise. Wondering if you have an other bracketed shots of lesser exposure to blend in.

Also, given the ovality of the crater, the strong horizon and the linear cloud formation ... a possible crop to more of a pano.
...Show more

Rusty, thanks so much for the comments and suggestions. I do have some alternate crops, well, actually I'd say alternate framing as these are both full-frame. As I mentioned above, I've struggled to get the blown-spots under control. I just haven't come up with a way to capture it that works for me, though I'm sure there is a solution out there. You have given me some good things to think about.

I'm with you...I like the full expanse shot with the moon/stars/crater. the Mark IV is pretty usable at higher ISO's but I know I did introduce some of the noise with the tonal contrast I applied to bring out the detail around the edge. I will re-work this a bit with a more targeted application and see if that helps.

I may post some alternates here as well.

Thanks so much for the feedback!



Aug 21, 2014 at 10:34 AM
Michael H
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Kila'uea Volcano vent - lava lake glow


In case anyone is interested, here I did find one shot of the vent where it had more detail. This is a 1/30 @ ISO 2500 to get this. As you can see, in order to get any detail at all in the vent glow you loose everything else. As a comparison, without looking I believe the shot presented is around 4 seconds at ISO1250 to control some noise.







Aug 21, 2014 at 10:46 AM
BenV
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Kila'uea Volcano vent - lava lake glow


Michael H wrote:
Thanks Ben. In hindsight, I wish I would have grabbed a couple frames of the moon exposed properly. The lava, well, that's a completely different story. This is not a direct view of the lava, but rather, the glow of the lava lake below and out of sight. I've found to get anything of interest takes a bit longer exposure which obviously blows it out. Even the shorter timed frames I have finds the hot spots blown out.

I want to get up there next time and spend more time working with it. I alsways prefer single frame over
...Show more

If you can, try an HDR style photo here, it might work.



Aug 21, 2014 at 11:22 AM
Michael H
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Kila'uea Volcano vent - lava lake glow


BenV wrote:
If you can, try an HDR style photo here, it might work.


It might Ben. I will try today as time allows. Can't hurt I suppose





Aug 21, 2014 at 11:29 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Kila'uea Volcano vent - lava lake glow


I'd likely bracket and composite/stack. Even @ 1/30 ISO 1250, the red channel still looks blown. Note the red channel right side vs. the overall histo right side. You may want to drop the ISO even lower or the shutter shorter (depending on your shutter needs). I'd probably capture two frames @ -2 stops and + 3 stops to blend/composite with.

Here's a recovery effort to show the detail that is potentially extractable (crudely masked to only work the left side). Could use some more work, but the point is grab what you need for the various portions of the scene and don't give up on the info that's available to work with ... i.e. a VERY challenging scene that will require some coordination to give it it's due.












Aug 21, 2014 at 11:57 AM
Michael H
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Kila'uea Volcano vent - lava lake glow


Thanks Rusty. I appreciate the tips. this was a situation where I had others with me and not a lot of time to really explore options.

I also remain very much in the mindset of getting it right in camera, however I will explore some of these suggestions. I also plan to stack some ND filters at the right spots next time up there to see where this can lead. Conditions are always different in this amazing place. I have a couple others from a previous visit that I might post as well. One of them I did post in the landscape forum a while back: https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1304543/0#12448656


Cheers



Aug 21, 2014 at 12:40 PM
ben egbert
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Kila'uea Volcano vent - lava lake glow


Having done a lot of night shots myself and also many where I know I will need to blend, I have a habit of bracketing as Kent suggests, IE finding a proper exposure for each part of the image. Then I set my brackets as required and do a burst set, for example -2,0,+2. When i have really long exposures I may do the brackets manually, but as fast as possible. I would shot this at f2.8 probably with either my Samyung 14 or my 16-35. To avoid star trails I need about a 20 second exposure, but I suspect the caldera can get by with a much faster exposure.

I would be shooting around ISO800.

I would prefer a full moon because that would light the rim and you don't have a milky way anyway. But the moon needs to be at your back.

I try to always go solo for landscape photos, its tough to do this even with other photographers let alone people who are just looking.

When I am on vacation, I take my wife during the day and look and scout. For sunrise I just leave the room alone early and am usually back before my wife is up.







Aug 21, 2014 at 01:27 PM
Wildcats_Fans
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Kila'uea Volcano vent - lava lake glow


The 2nd shot is awesome


Aug 21, 2014 at 01:53 PM
Michael H
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Kila'uea Volcano vent - lava lake glow


ben egbert wrote:
Having done a lot of night shots myself and also many where I know I will need to blend, I have a habit of bracketing as Kent suggests, IE finding a proper exposure for each part of the image. Then I set my brackets as required and do a burst set, for example -2,0,+2. When i have really long exposures I may do the brackets manually, but as fast as possible. I would shot this at f2.8 probably with either my Samyung 14 or my 16-35. To avoid star trails I need about a 20 second exposure, but I
...Show more

Thanks Ben, while I agree with much of what you are saying sometimes we just have to go with what we have available. Ideal conditions are wonderful when the stars align, but I know for me I find that a rare luxury. I take the same approach when on vacation or business travel (which this was, and most of my travel is)

In this case, the people were friends so I couldn't drop them at the side of the road or toss them into the caldera. I tried really hard but could not find the moon volume switch to make her go full. Putting it to my back would have resulted in, well, death.

Just having a little fun. I very much appreciate the comments and tips. That Rokinon 14 is on my list to get but I've not done it yet. soon,



Aug 21, 2014 at 05:27 PM
Oregon Gal
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Kila'uea Volcano vent - lava lake glow


An alternate crop for image #1, along the lines of a 16 X 9 since you don't need all the sky. Lightened the shadows using luminosity masks and pulled in the highlight a touch.







Aug 21, 2014 at 06:39 PM
Michael H
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Kila'uea Volcano vent - lava lake glow


Thanks Oregon Gal. This might be a better way to approach this. I'm playing right now with a slight blend to add some detail into the blown out spot. I will post if I get anything usable.

Cheers



Aug 22, 2014 at 12:13 PM
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