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Who has left Canon FF...for something smaller?
  
 
veroman
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p.6 #1 · p.6 #1 · Who has left Canon FF...for something smaller?


StillFingerz wrote:
My smaller will be Canon's next iteration of the EOS M, I nearly grabbed the M2 but without local repair/support it was a no-go. I'm keeping fingers crossed that an announcement will come forth at Photokina...


My understanding is that Canon will not be selling EOS M cameras in the U.S. I suspect they're going to come up with something more competitive. In your view, was the M2 competitive with very good mirrorless cameras?

- Steve



Aug 21, 2014 at 12:06 AM
StillFingerz
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p.6 #2 · p.6 #2 · Who has left Canon FF...for something smaller?


veroman wrote:
My understanding is that Canon will not be selling EOS M cameras in the U.S. I suspect they're going to come up with something more competitive. In your view, was the M2 competitive with very good mirrorless cameras?

- Steve


Hi Steve,

Yes for me it is competitive, but not as it might be for most.

The accessory EVF and the minor other extras seemed just right and I would be okay with the 18mp sensor; it's only minus is lack of a wired remote, but the touch screen could substitute. My needs/wants are quite specific subject wise and even the original M nearly fit the requirements, and may still if nothing new is released in the US.

I've looked over most of the mirror-less offerings and only Fuji has really interested me, not even the Sony's with that incredible EXMOR sensor hits the mark yet, they're just not mature enough for my tastes. SLRs and DSLRs with big bright viewfinders are my norm and so far no EVF gives me exactly what I need/want, we'll see what the future brings us.

I'm partial to Canon's mid-sized body ergonomics and so far only Canon has a remote switch that works. My disability; high level paralysis, requires specific adaptations to equipment for me to shoot hand-held. I use a remote switch placed between my teeth so my tongue can half-press/fire the shutter, thus freeing up my paralyzed fingers/hands to hold body/lens.

To date only Fuji's remote is slim enough for my use and while I would like the lighter/smaller form factor, I'm just not ready to give up my L glass, nor the advantages of FF when it comes to BOKEH and fast lenses; which I get from film atm; with digital I'm shooting crop bodies, 40D/7D and 1DMk2N.

I'm hoping an M3 comes out at some point, I've written to Canon US and Japan, talked with support tech's from both locations about my desire, physical need/want, for a remote socket; even like the Rebel type, added to the M; they listened but who knows if they will respond.

I've been happy with a G12 as the G series has wired remote access. The G1XII has peeked my interest but I really want interchangeable lenses, and other than Nikon, don't see another manufacture with a 'real/mature' flash system; standard and macro.

I realize my issues are not the norm for Canon's or other manufacture's customers, but am trying to get us cripples a few features that would help us greatly. With four limbs paralyzed we Tetras/Quads don't have finger function like a Para does; they usually have upper body functionality and can use equipment as able-bodied folks can.

We're in a very niche market that isn't often targeted, nor given our numbers necessary should be, but we still have that passion, need to create. It's simply a pleasure and it's humbling, that with my limited physicality, hand-holding, let alone still being able to shoot is still possible

Cheers from a not-so-able FM shooter,
Jerry aka stillfingers


Edited on Aug 21, 2014 at 01:05 AM · View previous versions



Aug 21, 2014 at 12:50 AM
Schlotkins
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p.6 #3 · p.6 #3 · Who has left Canon FF...for something smaller?


veroman wrote:
My understanding is that Canon will not be selling EOS M cameras in the U.S. I suspect they're going to come up with something more competitive. In your view, was the M2 competitive with very good mirrorless cameras?

- Steve


The M is a good camera, especially because the EF-M lenses are really good. I have the 11-22, 18-55, and 22. All of them are good lenses, especially stopped down. Unless you print huge, my guess is you'd be OK. If they improve the sensor a bit, it would be perfect.

That said, if I am going to go on a trip to specifically shoot, I'll take something else. But for random trips and good images, the M is a good camera.

My 2 cents,
Chris



Aug 21, 2014 at 01:01 AM
technic
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p.6 #4 · p.6 #4 · Who has left Canon FF...for something smaller?


gdanmitchell wrote:
And just to show I'm reasonable and try to be objective, while a mirrorless system cannot reduce the visual latency to that of a system that doesn't rely on a video display of the subject (which can affect your ability to push the shutter button at the right instant), it can reduce the time between the shutter press and the exposure due to a reduction in the number and mass of mechanical parts that have to move.


not just that: a big part of the delay is in the perception of the photographer and decisions to be made (irrespective of the fact that some of this is 'predictive' work). I agree with you that currently OVF often has the edge especially for fast action. But we might soon have EVFs that enhance the image in certain ways that help the photographer make quick decisions (i.e. shorten the perception delay compared to OVF). Current tools like focus peaking are crude versions of what may be possible within some years with higher resolution displays and faster processors.



Aug 22, 2014 at 12:08 PM
lexvo
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p.6 #5 · p.6 #5 · Who has left Canon FF...for something smaller?


I sold a few L-lenses and bought a Fuji X-T1 and the 18-55 and 14/2.8 lenses. The main reason is I want to travel lighter. Stil have my 5D2 and some lenses.

I decided not to go FF mirrorless because I wanted my lenses to be smaller and lighter. I also do a lot of high ISO shooting and that's the reason I didn't choose MFT.



Aug 22, 2014 at 09:25 PM
mttran
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p.6 #6 · p.6 #6 · Who has left Canon FF...for something smaller?


Why investing on crop bodies when full frame (A7 series) mirror less body will auto/manual switch to the same sensor size with adaptor converter & compatible lens. Imo, we have more advantage in dof/size/lighter set from ff mirror less bodies than any crop bodies since we can integrate the ff body with different lens size this way. In FE mount case, it has unlimited lens base from everyone.


Aug 23, 2014 at 05:24 PM
technic
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p.6 #7 · p.6 #7 · Who has left Canon FF...for something smaller?


mttran wrote:
Why investing on crop bodies when full frame (A7 series) mirror less body will auto/manual switch to the same sensor size with adaptor converter & compatible lens. Imo, we have more advantage in dof/size/lighter set from ff mirror less bodies than any crop bodies since we can integrate the ff body with different lens size this way. In FE mount case, it has unlimited lens base from everyone.


Just imagine that Canon makes such a compact mirrorless FF body with state-of-the-art sensor, that provides fast and reliable AF with EF and EF-S lenses ... Even better if they add a few high quality, well-chosen FF mirrorless lenses like they did for EOS-M.

I know, very unlikely but it would be a nice addition to the existing system - and judging from the response from DSLR supporters, would not compete with existing Canon DSLRs ;-)



Aug 25, 2014 at 06:22 PM
retrofocus
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p.6 #8 · p.6 #8 · Who has left Canon FF...for something smaller?


technic wrote:
Just imagine that Canon makes such a compact mirrorless FF body with state-of-the-art sensor, that provides fast and reliable AF with EF and EF-S lenses ... Even better if they add a few high quality, well-chosen FF mirrorless lenses like they did for EOS-M.

I know, very unlikely but it would be a nice addition to the existing system - and judging from the response from DSLR supporters, would not compete with existing Canon DSLRs ;-)


I am sure it will happen. Just not very soon in Canon land. Maybe first prototype of a Canon FF mirrorless camera end of 2016 or 2017? First, we still need to see a new FF sensor in a Canon DSLR (2015?).



Aug 25, 2014 at 06:46 PM
Glenn NK
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p.6 #9 · p.6 #9 · Who has left Canon FF...for something smaller?


SchnellerGT wrote:
Unless Canon announces a 6DII with a new super-DR chip and improved AF in the next few months, I am thinking of jumping ship. Not necessarily to Nikon as I don't think they offer what I want either. I think the answer may be at Sony or FUJI. I am simply tired of big backpacks. I want more portability. But I still want DR, low noise at high ISO, and shutter speed. Is there anything out there that fits the bill? I really only do landscapes and portraits. My current kit is the 5DII, 24-70LII, 85L, and 135L.

So who
...Show more

If Canon "announces a 6DII with a new super-DR chip and improved AF", it won't be too heavy or too big or too non-portable.

Interesting.




Aug 25, 2014 at 06:57 PM
Glenn NK
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p.6 #10 · p.6 #10 · Who has left Canon FF...for something smaller?


Gochugogi wrote:
I almost jumped ship but came back after 2.5 years with Olympus and Panasonic M4/3. They're cute cameras but I found ergonomics awkward, images noisy above ISO 800, lenses pricy and, the worse yet, got lots of blurry pics at normally easy to hold shutter speeds. Those tiny cameras are a bitch to hold steady and tend to have shutter shock problems.

With all that said, I'm glad I hung onto my 6D and 5D2 for my more serious shooting.


This what I find interesting - for the past seven years or so, each new Canon body in the XXD and 5D series got bigger and was easier to hold and use. Many commented that the larger bodies fit their large hands better.

Now the field is rampant with people that buy M43, and the small size is OK? Did our collective hands shrink?

Glenn




Aug 25, 2014 at 07:04 PM
 

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gdanmitchell
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p.6 #11 · p.6 #11 · Who has left Canon FF...for something smaller?


Glenn NK wrote:
This what I find interesting - for the past seven years or so, each new Canon body in the XXD and 5D series got bigger and was easier to hold and use. Many commented that the larger bodies fit their large hands better.

Now the field is rampant with people that buy M43, and the small size is OK? Did our collective hands shrink?


No. People's preferences vary. Both options have their value.

Dan



Aug 25, 2014 at 07:15 PM
artd
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p.6 #12 · p.6 #12 · Who has left Canon FF...for something smaller?


Glenn NK wrote:
Now the field is rampant with people that buy M43, and the small size is OK? Did our collective hands shrink?


Despite having large hands, I can use small cameras just as easily as I can use big cameras. The only thing required is a willingness to adapt to whichever one happens to be in hand.



Aug 25, 2014 at 07:19 PM
chez
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p.6 #13 · p.6 #13 · Who has left Canon FF...for something smaller?


Glenn NK wrote:
This what I find interesting - for the past seven years or so, each new Canon body in the XXD and 5D series got bigger and was easier to hold and use. Many commented that the larger bodies fit their large hands better.

Now the field is rampant with people that buy M43, and the small size is OK? Did our collective hands shrink?

Glenn



I never thought a larger camera is easier to hold. My film cameras which were quite a bit smaller than today's bigger DSLR's were very comfortable to hold and use all day. My A7R and X100 are really a pleasure to carry all day, that I cannot say the same for my 5d2 and 7d.



Aug 25, 2014 at 07:35 PM
kezeka
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p.6 #14 · p.6 #14 · Who has left Canon FF...for something smaller?


I tried to leave an SLR for the sony A7 but found it had too many problems as far as control setup and ergonomics for starters. I'll probably pick one up when the price is somewhere around $500 to use as a travel camera.


Aug 25, 2014 at 08:14 PM
ggreene
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p.6 #15 · p.6 #15 · Who has left Canon FF...for something smaller?


gdanmitchell wrote:
No. People's preferences vary. Both options have their value.


Yeah, plenty of room for many options.

For those of us shooting larger lenses a tiny body is not buying you much especially for hand held shooting. I'd much rather have a heavier but balanced combo then a tiny body with a very front heavy lens.





Aug 25, 2014 at 08:18 PM
retrofocus
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p.6 #16 · p.6 #16 · Who has left Canon FF...for something smaller?


chez wrote:
I never thought a larger camera is easier to hold. My film cameras which were quite a bit smaller than today's bigger DSLR's were very comfortable to hold and use all day. My A7R and X100 are really a pleasure to carry all day, that I cannot say the same for my 5d2 and 7d.


+1. I find it very easy to get used to larger storage amount of hard drives and larger monitor/TV screens, but I never found it easy to get used to a more bulky camera. Now I am using my 5D IIs and the A7R in parallel - the A7R feels natural in size to me whereas going back to the 5D II seems cumbersome size-wise.

Even on my largest lens which is the 100-400, the gravity point is on the lens and not on the camera - it doesn't really matter if a large or small camera is attached to it IMO. Also if a tripod is used, it is attached to the lens and not to the camera obviously...



Aug 25, 2014 at 08:54 PM
Gunzorro
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p.6 #17 · p.6 #17 · Who has left Canon FF...for something smaller?


M4/3 is a nightmare camera for me! Really, I'm always accidentally starting a movie or changing settings without knowing. There's just no way to grab it firmly or reliably for larger hands.

The 60D and 5D2 without added grips are much better, but still sort of toy-like. When I want lighter weight, I can use these with decent lenses and get a fair hold on the body without accidentally messing up settings.

Best yet (for me) is the 1D series. Controls are easy to reach and reliable -- nothing gets bumped or shifted unless I consciously do so. The integrated grip(s) is perfect, and the heft provides balance and inertia for steady hand holding.

I do like the little G-series. It is made like a tank and has grip-able surfaces and ergonomic ridges. For a small camera, I like it's arrangement of controls.

Grip is really personal, but weight and controls are practical matters, depending on how the camera is to be used.

By default, I'll stay with a 1D-series when I can.



Aug 25, 2014 at 10:04 PM
Glenn NK
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p.6 #18 · p.6 #18 · Who has left Canon FF...for something smaller?


Gunzorro wrote:
M4/3 is a nightmare camera for me! Really, I'm always accidentally starting a movie or changing settings without knowing. There's just no way to grab it firmly or reliably for larger hands.

The 60D and 5D2 without added grips are much better, but still sort of toy-like. When I want lighter weight, I can use these with decent lenses and get a fair hold on the body without accidentally messing up settings.

Grip is really personal, but weight and controls are practical matters, depending on how the camera is to be used.


I would agree that grip is personal. I have average sized hands, but have played the piano for over 65 years so have very strong agile fingers (no arthritis). So for me, smaller and lighter would be useful in the camera bag, but not in the field.

With my 5DII and my son's 6D, I can hang the camera from my right hand just using the grip and four fingers (where the battery is) with a f/2.8 70-200 attached. On my last film camera (Canon A-1), there was a bit of a bump, but not enough to safely carry it. Had several Pentax cams, and carrying them that way was not even remotely thinkable.



Aug 26, 2014 at 12:25 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.6 #19 · p.6 #19 · Who has left Canon FF...for something smaller?


ggreene wrote:
For those of us shooting larger lenses a tiny body is not buying you much especially for hand held shooting. I'd much rather have a heavier but balanced combo then a tiny body with a very front heavy lens.


Maybe. But I've never understood the logic of putting a big heavy body on a big lens for handling purposes. We don't just hold the body and leave the lens to hang out in front of it — we often hold under the lens, too.

In most cases there is no advantage in having a camera that is bigger than you need, especially if a smaller a lighter option is available which provides the other features that you need. (One of the pleasures of putting down my large DSLR system and shooting my Fujifilm X-trans camera and lenses, when the circumstances are right of this, is that the whole thing is so small and light.)

Dan



Aug 26, 2014 at 12:38 AM
ggreene
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p.6 #20 · p.6 #20 · Who has left Canon FF...for something smaller?


gdanmitchell wrote:
Maybe. But I've never understood the logic of putting a big heavy body on a big lens for handling purposes. We don't just hold the body and leave the lens to hang out in front of it — we often hold under the lens, too.


From my experience with the 10D I just never liked having that on the bigger lenses. I handhold almost exclusively and feel far more stable and balanced with the 1D's. Also the 1D allows for a more secure grip when lugging them around. I trust my grip far more then I trust a strap.

Fortunately, there are options for all sizes.



Aug 26, 2014 at 12:56 AM
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