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Archive 2014 · Who has left Canon FF...for something smaller?

  
 
boingyman
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Who has left Canon FF...for something smaller?


I've been entertaining the throught for a quite some time now, but it has nothing to do with not liking what I use. I love my 5D3, but the fact is that I rarely use it these days and with street photography being my favorite leisure activity I prefer something smaller. Since I'm in no rush I'm waiting to see if Fuji announces the x100t soon. On the otherhand when I'm doing most other types of photography I would definitely miss my 5D3 if I sold it. Also the paid gigs I do from time to time with it justifies keeping it so it would really be hard to let it go.


Aug 19, 2014 at 10:47 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Who has left Canon FF...for something smaller?


SchnellerGT wrote:
Unless Canon announces a 6DII with a new super-DR chip and improved AF in the next few months, I am thinking of jumping ship. Not necessarily to Nikon as I don't think they offer what I want either. I think the answer may be at Sony or FUJI. I am simply tired of big backpacks. I want more portability. But I still want DR, low noise at high ISO, and shutter speed. Is there anything out there that fits the bill? I really only do landscapes and portraits. My current kit is the 5DII, 24-70LII, 85L, and 135L.

So who
...Show more

I have not "sold my kit," nor do I intend to. The DSLR systems can do things that I need done, things that the small mirrorless systems cannot yet do.

However, I have augmented my DSLR system with a smaller Fujifilm system based on the X-E1. I've been using it for almost two years now, and I'm very happy with the camera (with some reservations that I'll mention) and the lenses (which are really excellent.)

I first got this system in anticipation of some overseas travel — I like to travel light, restricting myself to carry-on luggage — and the DSLR system I use wasn't going to make that a realistic possibility. My entire Fujifilm system (three small primes and one long focal length zoom) fit in part of a small carry-on messenger bag, with room left over for my small laptop, cell phone, and assorted other small items. Once at my location, I can ditch the laptop and use the messenger bag as my camera bag.

The system produces top-quality images. When I got it I was not aware of just how good the Fujifilm lenses are, and I was quite (happily) surprised when I began to look at photographs from the first two lenses I had (the 14mm f/2.8 and 35mm f/1.4, equivalent to 21mm and 50mm focal lengths) in post. I later acquired the 55-200mm zoom and, most recently, the 23mm (35mm equivalent) f/1.4. I regularly produce prints in the 18" x 24" range from this setup with excellent results and, although I have not done so yet, I'm certain I could go larger. Basically, the image quality is as good or better than that from other cropped sensor cameras.

It is also a very good low light camera, notwithstanding the slow AF issues. High ISO performance is excellent, and I have no problems cleaning up ISO 6400 shots in post with minimal effort. This lets me do something that I've always wanted to try, shoot handheld urban street photography at night!

Nothing is perfect, and while you do gain something from these cameras, you also give up some things relative to today's highly evolved DSLRs. The most obvious thing is that the AF systems, which do continue to improve, are simply not as fast as those on DSLRs. In most cases this probably isn't a big deal, though if you shoot fast moving subjects, especially in low light, you are certain to occasionally run into this limitation. For me, the tradeoff is worth it for many kinds of photography

I do understand that Fujifilm is not the only option in this market space, and I have friends who are very happy with systems from Sony, Olympus, and others.

Dan

From last week in Manhattan...

http://gdanmitchell.com/gallery/d/8569-3/ChinatownNYCurvedStreet20140810.jpg

http://gdanmitchell.com/gallery/d/8583-3/MOMAAtriumLightPatterns20140811.jpg

Edited on Aug 19, 2014 at 12:16 PM · View previous versions



Aug 19, 2014 at 11:11 AM
johnctharp
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Who has left Canon FF...for something smaller?


SchnellerGT wrote:
As far as I am concerned the future is something like the A7: FF, DSLR replacement, in a small, compact, mirrorless body. The longer C and N want to gimp their offerings to protect their larger bodies, the faster their ships will sink.


The only thing keeping Sony from producing mirrorless FF cameras that are true DSLR replacements is Sony .

Part of the problem is Sony's ever-present lack of inspiration when it comes to design, and part of it is their non-committal to making FE-mount glass that's actually worthy of their own sensors.



Aug 19, 2014 at 11:15 AM
retrofocus
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Who has left Canon FF...for something smaller?


johnctharp wrote:
The only thing keeping Sony from producing mirrorless FF cameras that are true DSLR replacements is Sony .

Part of the problem is Sony's ever-present lack of inspiration when it comes to design, and part of it is their non-committal to making FE-mount glass that's actually worthy of their own sensors.


Did you ever use an A7 series camera? Please share your experience.



Aug 19, 2014 at 11:24 AM
mttran
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Who has left Canon FF...for something smaller?


The only thing that make me regret after 2xa7r is canon release 50MP - 15 stops non-banding DR - 200 AF points 5D Mark 4 for under $2500. Otherwise, I will be fine with these a7r twins and older 40D for awhile


Aug 19, 2014 at 11:48 AM
retrofocus
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Who has left Canon FF...for something smaller?


mttran wrote:
The only thing that make me regret after 2xa7r is canon release 50MP - 15 stops non-banding DR - 200 AF points 5D Mark 4 for under $2500. Otherwise, I will be fine with these a7r twins and older 40D for awhile


Canon likely will/(need to) do something in 2015. Even if we assume that its new sensor beats the current Exmor-based one, we still need to consider the following:

a) What will Canon's competition offer at this point also including other brands with mirrorless systems?
b) Do you really want to go back to a bulky DSLR (I certainly don't after using my mirrorless now)?
c) Is the upgrade worth the difference (personal decision)?
d) Matter of price of course, too



Aug 19, 2014 at 12:20 PM
artd
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Who has left Canon FF...for something smaller?


jctriguy wrote:
Once Sony stops gimping their a7 with crappy AF And poor ergonomics, I'll consider trying one...


And while we're at it, I hope that Canon stops gimping their DSLRs with poor manual focus tools

On the point of ergonomics, after using the A7r extensively for several months I find nothing to complain about. The first couple of times out with the camera felt awkward because it was a new camera. But I found things were awkward when I first starting shooting a Canon body, too. Each individual formulates their own opinion about this kind of thing of course...and as a daily user of this camera mine is there is nothing about A7r ergonomics I find "poor" in any way.




Aug 19, 2014 at 02:34 PM
artd
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Who has left Canon FF...for something smaller?


johnctharp wrote:
The only thing keeping Sony from producing mirrorless FF cameras that are true DSLR replacements is Sony .

Part of the problem is Sony's ever-present lack of inspiration when it comes to design, and part of it is their non-committal to making FE-mount glass that's actually worthy of their own sensors.


The 35mm FE and 55mm FE are two of the best lenses I've used on any system. They are certainly "worthy".

Where Sony has not delivered in the FE mount is with a good standard zoom, or good wide angle. Of course, those issues don't bother me so much because when I'm using wide angle I'm using Canon's 17 and 24 TSEs on my A7r, and when I'm in a scenario where I need to shoot with a standard zoom I'm shooting with a Canon body because usually that means I need to be working quickly and need to be relying on faster AF.

I'm not sure we are quite that close to any manufacturer making a mirrorless camera that can truly replace a DSLR for all purposes. Because mirrlorless cameras use contrast-detect, I don't think you are going to see such a system with faster AF than the phase-detect systems we have in DSLRs. Or at least not in the immediate future, probably. Of course there might be a technological breakthrough that makes that happen, but I'd guess if so we are still a few years away from that.



Aug 19, 2014 at 02:49 PM
mttran
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Who has left Canon FF...for something smaller?


One thing i found so common in canon forum thread after thread that A7series user like them so much and the ones, who has no A7series experience, hate them so much. I am wonder why these cam bothering them. Afterall, these cams help canon user to DR then IQ really well with EF lenses ... better than most review sites

Edited on Aug 19, 2014 at 03:33 PM · View previous versions



Aug 19, 2014 at 03:07 PM
jcolwell
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Who has left Canon FF...for something smaller?


mttran wrote:
One thing i found so common in canon forum thread after thread that A7series user like them so much and the ones, who has no A7series experience, hate them so much. I am wonder why these cam bothering them. Afterall, these cams help canon user to DR then IQ really well with EF lenses





Aug 19, 2014 at 03:33 PM
pcho
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Who has left Canon FF...for something smaller?


I own both systems now, as I said earlier I am heavily into Canon gear. Took me awhile to purchase the Sony systems until after seeing the results from my friends images over and over again. I always said I will stick with one system only and hoped that Canon will come up with something to match the competion with their sensors. For years I was living in hope.
So when Sony started marketing their A Series cameras and Fe Lenses here in Australia with price drop and cashback (which we seldom get) I purchased the A7r and latter the A7s.
I don't think mirrorless will for the time being replace my DSLR but who knows what will happen 5 to 10 years from now. I never though I would purchase a digital camera back in 2003.



Aug 19, 2014 at 03:37 PM
mttran
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Who has left Canon FF...for something smaller?


jcolwell wrote:


OK, Jimmy - my bad. Can't help it after reading some nonsense. OK, i stop



Aug 19, 2014 at 03:41 PM
johnctharp
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Who has left Canon FF...for something smaller?


SchnellerGT wrote:
As far as I am concerned the future is something like the A7: FF, DSLR replacement, in a small, compact, mirrorless body. The longer C and N want to gimp their offerings to protect their larger bodies, the faster their ships will sink.


johnctharp wrote:
The only thing keeping Sony from producing mirrorless FF cameras that are true DSLR replacements is Sony .

Part of the problem is Sony's ever-present lack of inspiration when it comes to design, and part of it is their non-committal to making FE-mount glass that's actually worthy of their own sensors.


retrofocus wrote:
Did you ever use an A7 series camera? Please share your experience.


Yes I've used them, no, I don't own one, and no, I'm not going to go over my experience in response to a challenge that has nothing to do with what you quoted me as saying.

Why don't you explain how an A7-series camera can replace DSLRs across the board?



Aug 19, 2014 at 03:59 PM
johnctharp
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Who has left Canon FF...for something smaller?


artd wrote:
The 35mm FE and 55mm FE are two of the best lenses I've used on any system. They are certainly "worthy".


I agree (and have said before) that the FE 55 is a worthy lens; it is damn sharp and makes an effective kit, though it's not without it's drawbacks.

So, while I can't disagree with your assertion that they are the 'best lenses you've used on any system', I'd note that there are larger but rather higher-performing lenses available for DSLRs at similar or lower prices; the 50/1.4 Art being sharper than the FE 55, faster, and better corrected in every way, and the 35/2 IS being quite a bit sharper than the FE 35, faster, and stabilized.

The zooms are relatively disappointing.

And my overall point is this: going smaller (per the OP) from a full-frame DSLR system means giving up some combination of image-making capability, and that while Sony provides one of the best overall options if preserving resolution and dynamic range are primary concerns, they've also shot themselves in the foot by skimping on their lenses. If Nikon, Canon, Sigma and Tamron can release lenses that are worthy of a 36MP FF sensor, so can a storied lens maker like Sony.



Aug 19, 2014 at 04:47 PM
Priusjames
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Who has left Canon FF...for something smaller?


nebula wrote:
And do not forget: Sigma DP2 Merrill.


Amen! And the DP1. And the DP3...I couldn't stop with just one. These are great when I have time to think.

I can easily see ditching my 6D, but not the DP's.





Aug 19, 2014 at 05:33 PM
jctriguy
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Who has left Canon FF...for something smaller?


artd wrote:
And while we're at it, I hope that Canon stops gimping their DSLRs with poor manual focus tools

On the point of ergonomics, after using the A7r extensively for several months I find nothing to complain about. The first couple of times out with the camera felt awkward because it was a new camera. But I found things were awkward when I first starting shooting a Canon body, too. Each individual formulates their own opinion about this kind of thing of course...and as a daily user of this camera mine is there is nothing about A7r ergonomics I find "poor"
...Show more

For my needs, live view works just fine. I can manual focus my mamiya lenses quite easily on a lowly 7d.

Ergonomics is so personal. I can't work quickly with a small body in their current form. The buttons are too close together and the grip is too small. Even worse when I have gloves on. Large dslr bodies aren't all about marketing and being 'pro'.



Aug 19, 2014 at 06:24 PM
Schlotkins
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · Who has left Canon FF...for something smaller?


I used to lug a 5DMKIII everywhere with a few lenses. It got to be a real hassle, especially for trips not really meant for photography. (An extra 8 lbs in the backpack with a 5lb laptop gets to you after 10 hours of traveling.) I picked up an EOS-M, 11-22, 22, 18-55. Is it as good as the 5D? Of course not. However, it is super light and works well. My hope is they come out with a better EOS M body at some point.

Of course, when I am out birding with the 500 f4 or going on a trip to take pictures, I take the 5DM3. The A7r is interesting, but I feel like I would use the same canon lenses etc so the weight/size savings would be fairly small. (There are other pros/cons but I don't print large.) My hope is canon has something up their sleeve in the next few weeks. We shall see.

My two cents.
Chris




Aug 19, 2014 at 06:32 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · Who has left Canon FF...for something smaller?


mttran wrote:
One thing i found so common in canon forum thread after thread that A7series user like them so much and the ones, who has no A7series experience, hate them so much. I am wonder why these cam bothering them. Afterall, these cams help canon user to DR then IQ really well with EF lenses ... better than most review sites


Who "hates" the A7 cameras? I haven't seen much of that around here.

Dan



Aug 19, 2014 at 07:28 PM
jcolwell
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · Who has left Canon FF...for something smaller?


gdanmitchell wrote:
Who "hates" the A7 cameras?


I think that's code for "hasn't bought one".




Aug 19, 2014 at 07:34 PM
jcolwell
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · Who has left Canon FF...for something smaller?


Let's play a game (i.e. oh look, a distraction).

Match the phrase to the brand:

1. "Resistance is futile."
2. "There is no spoon."
3. "We're off to see the Wizard."

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1313284



Aug 19, 2014 at 07:40 PM
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