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Archive 2014 · Post-airshow question

  
 
thirdcole
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Post-airshow question


Have a question for any of you with airshow experience. Coming away from my first airshow shoot I took a photo I was really looking forward to but had a tiny window (only 1 flyby) to get a good framing of the shot.

The issue is 2 aircraft that sit at opposite ends of shooting recommendations from what I've read. 1 a jet (f-22 raptor coming up fast for formation) which recommends fast shutter. 2nd a prop plane (P-51) that recommends to match slower shutter close to prop RPM for the blurred movement effect. The jet was hard to get as it was coming up on the P-51 so I optioned for fast shutter while panning to grab it. Unfortunately that created the frozen prop on the P-51.

If I had dropped shutter speed down, would I have been able to get the jet and capture a blurred prop on the p-51? Or would I have created blur on the jet trying to capture the prop? Thoughts?




© ThirdCole 2014

Birds of a Feather




Aug 18, 2014 at 10:29 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Post-airshow question


1st off ... nice capture and explanation of what was happening.

Depending on your panning skills, you could drop the shutter and retain the Raptor sharp, but then you risk "over-panning" the P-51. My first instinct is that you are at the opposing ends and can't be done ... BUT, I do think it can be done, but matching your panning @ Raptor speed in concert with P-51 air speed & prop speed and shutter selection would require either some testing / experience or ... one HECK OF A LUCKY GUESS.

You might review your single subject shots to assess the shutter/air speed/panning relationships ... and also for prop blur, to see if there are any shutter speeds that come close to being the same for each type of shot ... then putting that in the memory bank for future consideration.

Looking forward to seeing a future effort.



Aug 18, 2014 at 10:45 AM
ben egbert
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Post-airshow question


For me, I never knew that you did not wish to freeze the prop. This is probably like feather detail in birds. only other aircraft guys really notice.

Keeping both sharp is far more important and would be noticeable to most viewers.

Getting both in one shot is neat, but the bird of deeper interest to me is the P51 because of it's rarity, a closer shot of that would be more to my liking than the pair.



Aug 18, 2014 at 10:52 AM
thirdcole
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Post-airshow question


RustyBug wrote:
You might review your single subject shots to assess the shutter/air speed/panning relationships ... and also for prop blur, to see if there are any shutter speeds that come close to being the same for each type of shot ... then putting that in the memory bank for future consideration.


Thanks for the feedback much appreciated. I looked through the other shots I got of the P-51 and never even got close (even at half the rate I was shooting at) to blurring the prop. Lesson learned on that one. I'll have to try some slower shutter panning shots and get more practice on that. Thanks for the tips!
---------------------------------------------

ben egbert wrote:
Getting both in one shot is neat, but the bird of deeper interest to me is the P51 because of it's rarity, a closer shot of that would be more to my liking than the pair.


Ya the chance to see (and to hear!) the P-51 was as much of an anticipation as was seeing the Raptor. Unfortunately the P-51 didn't come out for practice the day before and up until that flyby he was was up in altitude while the Raptor did some air maneuvers/stunts I didn't think was possible in a jet.

Thank you both for the feedback!




Aug 18, 2014 at 11:00 AM
ben egbert
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Post-airshow question


thirdcole wrote:
Thanks for the feedback much appreciated. I looked through the other shots I got of the P-51 and never even got close (even at half the rate I was shooting at) to blurring the prop. Lesson learned on that one. I'll have to try some slower shutter panning shots and get more practice on that. Thanks for the tips!
---------------------------------------------

Ya the chance to see (and to hear!) the P-51 was as much of an anticipation as was seeing the Raptor. Unfortunately the P-51 didn't come out for practice the day before and up until that flyby he was was up in
...Show more

I am old enough to remember hearing squadrons flying off from the L.A. area factories during WW2. Mostly P-38's as I think 51's were made at North America and was further away.




Aug 18, 2014 at 01:03 PM
Wildcats_Fans
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Post-airshow question


You have an excellent capture of new and old. You can tell that both were in flight because of the clouds and bit of sky. I think that you captured it well. The frozen prop of the P-51 helps to identify it easier for those that may not quickly realize that it is a prop plane. It may have just looked like a blur at the front of the aircraft with a slower shutter. I love the clouds in the photo as well, which would have been blurred if you tried a panning with slower shutter speed.


Aug 18, 2014 at 05:26 PM
FarmerJohn
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Post-airshow question


I wish I had the opportunity to do some airshow shots. Last time I was at an airshow was with an older Powershot camera. Fun and good images, but nothing stunning that I'd like to hang up

Thinking about it though - wouldn't they have to be flying *exactly* in formation to get the shot you want? Unless the speeds match exactly, panning for one of them is going to blur the other?

I would definitely be happy to capture the image you did!



Aug 18, 2014 at 10:50 PM
thirdcole
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Post-airshow question


FarmerJohn wrote:
Thinking about it though - wouldn't they have to be flying *exactly* in formation to get the shot you want? Unless the speeds match exactly, panning for one of them is going to blur the other?

I would definitely be happy to capture the image you did!


True and the jet was coming up on the mustang for formation over the lake so I was getting a shot outside the show's main audience area. Definitely some things to learn from but overall really happy I got to see some aircraft at a vantage I wouldn't have anywhere else (roof of a 30 story building).

Thanks for the feedback everyone!

Regards,
Jim






Aug 19, 2014 at 08:58 AM
Shasoc
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Post-airshow question


You can get the shot you are looking for only if the two airplanes are flying in formation. At the same speed that is. Use a slow SS and a good panning technique.Here is an example.
Socrate







Aug 19, 2014 at 09:14 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Post-airshow question


Very nice capture and excellent illustration to the point @ matched air speeds/pan/blur ... textbook.

I was also thinking that if the air speed was unmatched @ the faster approaching jet, a slower shutter speed could show for the motion blur @ the faster speed of the jet (as an alternate for unmatched air speed).

BTW ... the jet pilot has some broccoli stuck in his teeth.
What glass/body combo ... how much crop ... shutter speed for prop blur?



Aug 19, 2014 at 10:33 AM
Shasoc
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Post-airshow question


RustyBug wrote:
Very nice capture and excellent illustration to the point @ matched air speeds/pan/blur ... textbook.

I was also thinking that if the air speed was unmatched @ the faster approaching jet, a slower shutter speed could show for the motion blur @ the faster speed of the jet (as an alternate for unmatched air speed).

BTW ... the jet pilot has some broccoli stuck in his teeth.
What glass/body combo ... how much crop ... shutter speed for prop blur?





Thanks. That was taken with a 7D paired with a 300L/2.8. Its about 80% of the original. The SS is 1/125sec
If the two airplanes have different air speed, even if you do a great job on panning on one of the two airplanes, the other one will show motion blur, especially if they are moving side to side.
This one is full frame (I always get the front row) taken with a MkIV and a 100-400L at 400mm. The SS is 1/160 and I could have used a slower one.
I normally use a SS of 100 to 160. The slower the better. It also depends on the rotation speed of the props.







Aug 19, 2014 at 12:25 PM





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