Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              5      
6
       7       end
  

Archive 2014 · What is deal with everyone keeping their boxes/manuals

  
 
justruss
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.6 #1 · p.6 #1 · What is deal with everyone keeping their boxes/manuals


jimmy462 wrote:
Hi justruss,

I enjoyed your comments, thanks for taking the time to respond. To some of your observations...

In my experience, the "art of the deal" is a two-way street, sellers courting buyers and buyers courting sellers. The best deals I've had on the FM B&S were not those where I saved the most money, they were the deals where my seller and I were able to enjoy making the transaction both beneficial and accommodating for each other. Heck, I've gotten to meet some of FM's best while making local purchases that did not involve shipping! And each of them knew that
...Show more

Hi Jimmy, we're basically in agreement!

I still think (turn on the humor-reading, I'm going for a little lightness here) you're putting these lenses on a bit of a pedestal. I mean, c/mon, "self-respect of their own labors" and "respect of others labors" and "finely-crafted precision equipment"-- that all strikes me as hyperbole. These are not things I think of when I think of modern camera lenses and the people who use them to make images... and especially not when it comes to saving boxes and what I can infer from that about the person who owns the gear and how the gear was kept.

Granted, I shoot for work (as well as fun), so my views are colored by what the equipment lets me achieve; I feel nothing for the soullessness of the tool, even my 1960s Canon FL 55 f/1.2, whose mount I re-built with my father so it is now an Franken-EF lens (by way of contrast: I do feel something for the time I spent side-by-side with my retired father working on that mount, using the drill press, sanding down the new mount to achieve the right thickness for infinity). I'm impressed by what these lenses achieve, and I think the technology involved is impressive. But particularly when it comes to mass-produced, consumerist-driven, widely available gear (yeah, I include most modern Zeiss lenses in that category)... I'm far more in awe of the one-off leather shoes the cobbler around the corner from me here in Bavaria makes, or my handmade Italian rock-climbing shoes, than a mass-produced lens when it comes to respect for craftsmanship, etc.



Aug 18, 2014 at 03:15 AM
justruss
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.6 #2 · p.6 #2 · What is deal with everyone keeping their boxes/manuals


Imagemaster wrote:
Ain't it funny that the ones who whine about others discussing a mundane (to them) subject feel compelled to put their bitchy two cents worth in.

Why don't we start a thread about what prevents them from just reading the subject, and if they don't like it, just run along without contributing their worthless comments?


It sounds like you're reading a little too much into this discussion, particularly the joking bits at the end now that it seems to have run its course. I think it was pretty light right from the beginning.

Many of us are capable of nuance. I tend to think this topic is silly and mundane-- and I can at the same time hold an opinion on it and enjoy voicing that opinion. I don't think my opinion on the matter is of much importance, and it's just one data-point. For the most part, I've enjoyed reading this thread-- and opinions on all sides of the issue, including those opposite of mine-- and enjoyed it as it rounds the corner to LA LA LAnd.

I supposed it's near the end, notably as I've gotten it to page 6 now, a place where threads like this go to die. No sense getting too upset about anything in here, or taking it too seriously. It will soon fade into unread oblivion!




Aug 18, 2014 at 03:19 AM
Paul Mo
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.6 #3 · p.6 #3 · What is deal with everyone keeping their boxes/manuals


Personally I keep my boxes because it is polite.

Because, as has been stated before, buyers like them - as do I when I buy.

So if I am ever in a position to want or have to sell something, I have them.



Aug 18, 2014 at 03:47 AM
ggOk
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.6 #4 · p.6 #4 · What is deal with everyone keeping their boxes/manuals


as many have noted prior, it assures buyer that the gear is not stolen or refurbished.
thanks to having an original box, I was able to sell my 200 1.8L lens for my asking price...
I'm also about to sell all my FD lenses.. and most of them have original boxes and papers.. don't know why I kept 'em but I kept 'em and buyers love it.

/r
Andy



Aug 18, 2014 at 07:08 AM
jimmy462
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.6 #5 · p.6 #5 · What is deal with everyone keeping their boxes/manuals


justruss wrote:
Hi Jimmy, we're basically in agreement!

I still think (turn on the humor-reading, I'm going for a little lightness here) you're putting these lenses on a bit of a pedestal. I mean, c/mon, "self-respect of their own labors" and "respect of others labors" and "finely-crafted precision equipment"-- that all strikes me as hyperbole. These are not things I think of when I think of modern camera lenses and the people who use them to make images... and especially not when it comes to saving boxes and what I can infer from that about the person who owns the gear and
...Show more

Hi justruss,

My first love was for astronomy. And it must have pre-dated school days for me because I remember boring my classmates with my hand-drawn crayon pictures of the constellations during show-and-tell one day back in kindergarten! And I remember learning at an early age from some old books in the school library what a feat it was for humankind to have figured out how to focus light through the use of curved-surface glass lenses and mirrors that we could see far away things as though they were near.

I also remember a day as a little boy when I was holding my dad's hand while we walked through our backyard when he plucked a single leaf from our hedge row and while showing it to me said, "Y'know, for all the amazing things that men can make, none of them can make something as simple as this leaf." I grew up learning wonder.

I grew up to be a tradesman, of sorts, and recently finished up a 32-year career being one of the countless myriad of nuts-and-bolts craftspersons who helped build the amazing infrastructure of today's telecommunications network, I've done it all, from digging the holes to plop Southern Pine sticks in the ground to string cables to, to building server rooms and programming Sonnet networks. Where many see just an unfathomable mess of wires and cables and poles and metal racks and blinking lights, I see the trunk, tail, legs and body of a vast machine which spans the entire globe and which allows us to reconnect with loved ones and, um, debate cardboard boxes.

No one appreciates a painting more than a fellow painter, I suppose. And, I suppose, no one appreciates craftsmanship like a fellow craftsperson. And where some sense wonder, I suppose some see hyperbole.

Whether its when I'm handling my 17mm TS-E or my 13mm Ethos eyepiece I know that I am handling a work of precision engineering, design and craftwork. And I know that somewhere over distant mountains and a vast ocean there is a factory somewhere populated by a small army of craftfolks, and robots and all sorts of precision manufacturing apparatus which are capable of manufacturing a continuous stream of optical devices each capable of focusing light to within one-quarter of a wavelength of light. That we humans went from making one-offs of single lenses by hand to being able to create thousands in a run through the use of computerized precision fabrication is, well, pretty damned amazing to this fella. Where some folks see just a lens or just a box, others see something else.

So, as someone who can feel some of the soulfullness of his tools, yeah, I want the box and all the stuff that came with it.

I've been enjoying our side discussion, and I'd agree, we're pretty much on the same page with a lot of it. The rest?...well, it's all good.

Best,
Jimmy G



Aug 18, 2014 at 08:59 AM
riokid
Online
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.6 #6 · p.6 #6 · What is deal with everyone keeping their boxes/manuals


Boxes and date codes run parallel.

Those who have older date codes are like those without boxes: They say it does not matter.

I however like newer date codes and boxes and willing to pay a little extra for them.

Oh! Last time I checked it is still legal to keep boxes here in California



Aug 18, 2014 at 10:27 AM
gdanmitchell
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.6 #7 · p.6 #7 · What is deal with everyone keeping their boxes/manuals


jimmy462 wrote:
Whether its when I'm handling my 17mm TS-E or my 13mm Ethos eyepiece I know that I am handling a work of precision engineering, design and craftwork. And I know that somewhere over distant mountains and a vast ocean there is a factory somewhere populated by a small army of craftfolks, and robots and all sorts of precision manufacturing apparatus which are capable of manufacturing a continuous stream of optical devices each capable of focusing light to within one-quarter of a wavelength of light. That we humans went from making one-offs of single lenses by hand to being able to
...Show more

Interesting. In a way I get your point. I also often marvel at the processes, both contemporary and historic, that have led a bunch of critters like ourselves to write poetry, make photographs, fly airplanes, construct data networks, wage horrible wars, and all the rest... including systems for producing photographic images. It occasionally hits me that the fact that I can produce 24" x 36" prints in my own studio is somewhat astonishing.

So, on one level I understand your passion for lenses are objects and your appreciation for how they came to be. On the other hand...

Essentially all of what you appreciate in this regard is equally true in the case of a kit lens. In some ways, one could even think that it is even more amazing that such technologies (and/or craft) are applied to creating everyday things that people can buy for $149 and use to photograph their kids on vacation. (You allude to this notion when you point out the "progress" from the true craftsmanship of the production of individual objects to the industrial craftsmanship of producing many copies.)

And, as remarkable as all technologies can be simply as technologies, once you begin to use those technologies for a purpose — such as making photographs — you may be reminded that the true value of the technologies is not in themselves, but in what they permit humans to do. The printing press and is successors has been one of the most powerful technologies we have... but only because it enabled the human mind to record and think and marvel and discuss and share in unprecedented ways. Books (or electronic books today) are not about the medium of printing or distribution, but about the ideas contained in those books.

For me, as a person who is very aware of the underlying technology and its powerful effect, the goal is mostly to have the technology essentially be invisible (must as the technology of printing and distributing books is) and to focus almost entirely on the product (as an author would focus on the writing, not the printing). As such, while I appreciate what a fine lens can do, I regard it as a utilitarian tool.

YMMV,

Oh, yes, I have a shelf on top of a bookcase that holds lens and camera boxes. As I explained earlier, there are perhaps three reasons I hang on to them:

1. I'm lucky enough to have storage space.

2. They are the easiest and most protective way of packaging equipment if/when I need to send it in for adjustment.

3. Some folks prefer to buy used lenses with original packaging. (I don't care myself, but that doesn't change how others feel.)

Dan



Aug 18, 2014 at 11:10 AM
justruss
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.6 #8 · p.6 #8 · What is deal with everyone keeping their boxes/manuals


Wow, we really brought this thread back from the brink, huh? Good stuff all around!


Aug 18, 2014 at 01:30 PM
Jeffrey
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.6 #9 · p.6 #9 · What is deal with everyone keeping their boxes/manuals


Fascinating, six pages of people actually discussing this 'phenomenon'.


Aug 18, 2014 at 01:47 PM
jimmy462
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.6 #10 · p.6 #10 · What is deal with everyone keeping their boxes/manuals


Nice post, Dan, I always appreciate your writings. And thanks, Russ, for sharing your views and challenging my viewpoints...that's always appreciated.

Me? I'm talked out on the matter.

Peace out on boxes and such,
Jimmy G



Aug 18, 2014 at 04:59 PM
Shutterbug2006
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.6 #11 · p.6 #11 · What is deal with everyone keeping their boxes/manuals


I keep my boxes, manuals, discs, bags, twist ties for all of my photography and electronics purchases so I can pack them up nicely in the unlikely event I decide to buy a new home and have to move.

I've misplaced those boxes and sold equipment without the packaging - and gone on to throw the boxes out when I discover I no longer have the equipment.

I'm not sure I have the patience for advertising and selling used empty boxes.



Aug 19, 2014 at 02:51 PM
jcolwell
Online
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.6 #12 · p.6 #12 · What is deal with everyone keeping their boxes/manuals


Shutterbug2006 wrote:
...I'm not sure I have the patience for advertising and selling used empty boxes.


You don't happen to have a spare box for the old and totally outdated EF 50/1.0L, do you?




Aug 19, 2014 at 03:55 PM
neilvan
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.6 #13 · p.6 #13 · What is deal with everyone keeping their boxes/manuals


Consumerism.


Aug 20, 2014 at 04:26 AM
jcolwell
Online
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.6 #14 · p.6 #14 · What is deal with everyone keeping their boxes/manuals


I guess it sometimes helps to cope with a difficult situation, when you can put a name on it.


Aug 20, 2014 at 07:34 AM
gdanmitchell
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.6 #15 · p.6 #15 · What is deal with everyone keeping their boxes/manuals


jcolwell wrote:
I guess it sometimes helps to cope with a difficult situation, when you can put a name on it.


Yes, but better to think outside the box...

(Running for cover.)

Dan



Aug 20, 2014 at 08:48 AM
Manfred W. fEU
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.6 #16 · p.6 #16 · What is deal with everyone keeping their boxes/manuals


I always keep all boxes and packaging if possible, those are part of the item specially photographic equipment.
Some years ago when old Leitz equipment became the thing one must have, I came across this offer on the Bay
Thambar lens 1935 leitz asking price was $ 350.00 so I thought way is this person selling so cheap, you can guess already that was just the box and he did sell it for way more, can't remember how much.
At this rate I suggest one should keep all original boxes in a sturdy metal case for protection.
Manfred



Aug 20, 2014 at 11:37 PM
docsmiles17
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.6 #17 · p.6 #17 · What is deal with everyone keeping their boxes/manuals


Wow...6 pages of posts in less than 1 week here. A lot of interesting opinions and points of view

The only Fact I will add is that by having the original box, manuals, etc. does NOT give assurance that the equipment was not stolen, as eluded to in a couple of posts.




Aug 21, 2014 at 12:22 AM
Gochugogi
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.6 #18 · p.6 #18 · What is deal with everyone keeping their boxes/manuals


docsmiles17 wrote:
Wow...6 pages of posts in less than 1 week here. A lot of interesting opinions and points of view

The only Fact I will add is that by having the original box, manuals, etc. does NOT give assurance that the equipment was not stolen, as eluded to in a couple of posts.


Of course not. Nothing is a sure thing in life. However, not too many crackheads can get away with busting into B&H's warehouse to steal boxed gear. A boxed item with manuals is highly likely to indicate the seller is an anal retentive gear head selling off his toys.



Aug 21, 2014 at 12:33 AM
docsmiles17
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.6 #19 · p.6 #19 · What is deal with everyone keeping their boxes/manuals


Gochugogi wrote:
Of course not. Nothing is a sure thing in life. .
except taxes and death.



Aug 21, 2014 at 01:07 AM
mttran
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.6 #20 · p.6 #20 · What is deal with everyone keeping their boxes/manuals


docsmiles17 wrote:
except taxes and death.


+1, so play hard as you please



Aug 21, 2014 at 01:55 AM
1       2       3              5      
6
       7       end




FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              5      
6
       7       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.