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Do you think Canon's tightlippedness is hurting or helpin...
  
 
Gunzorro
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p.22 #1 · p.22 #1 · Do you think Canon's tightlippedness is hurting or helping them?


Paul Tessier wrote:
I for one think it hurts them. With consumer equipment maybe not so much but with professional equipment most definitely. If you are a working (part or full time) photog you most likely have an equipment budget and a business plan. Having high priced equipment come on the market with no warning does not allow me budget and plan for such items until they are released. In some cases by the time I am ready to purchase I feel it may be too late in the production cycle to invest. Camera bodies more so than lenses. We did get
...Show more

Isn't that what trade shows and press releases are all about -- giving consumers and investors a sense of the products about to be introduced for retail sale? Canon does very well at promoting and unveiling its products, just like all the other large companies. It's not just the photo industry -- plenty of types of trade shows in the world! (Personally, I thought Canon gave an excessively long runway to the 1DX -- made it seem a bit anxious.)

It seems a true road map is only needed on companies that seem shaky, to inspire confidence that they may be around (still, no guarantees!). More established customer bases with a large selection of products to buy don't need the road map -- the info generally comes out as needed to support future sales. I just don't see it as an issue.



Aug 22, 2014 at 02:02 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.22 #2 · p.22 #2 · Do you think Canon's tightlippedness is hurting or helping them?


Jerry, my friend with the new D810 comes from a large and medium format film background. He transitioned to digital MF a few years back and currently shoots a Mamiya 645 with a full size 80MP back as his primary camera. He picked up a D800E shortly after it came out, with some particular subjects and lenses in mind, and he just got his D810.

At recent print-sharing get-together he brought prints that he had made from some quick test shots made with is 80MP digital MF system and theD810. Both images had been resized for 30" x 40" prints, and he printed letter-sized crops of these images. He handed them out and asked us to compare. If one looked very, very closely it was possible to see some subtle differences if you really knew what to look for, but for 30" x 40" prints to be so equivalent speaks very well for the 36MP sensor in the D810.

If I were a Nikon shooter myself, I'd be all over the D810.

The rest of the evening was spent, as it always is (in addition to eating, drinking, and telling tall tales) in looking and and commenting on large prints by a group of about a half dozen or so photographers who shoot with a wide range of equipment. On this evening we say images made with everything from small mirrorless cameras through full frame DSLRs from more than one manufacturer to MF digital and film and scanned LF film. All made very beautiful prints.

Dan

StillFingerz wrote:
Dan, a good friend stopped by on Monday to cheer me up, gloat about his new toy. He's someone I've shot with since the late 70s, a life long Nikon user that's shot digital crop bodies like myself. He grabbed a D810 the week before his visit, mainly for family images/portraits. The prints he brought with him ranged from smallish 4x6's to a few A2s that were stunning compared to his images with his D7100. The A2 prints were wonderful; grand child pictures, and what impressed was the level of detail; the lens used was the 70-200 f2.8 VR, throughout
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Aug 22, 2014 at 02:07 PM
form
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p.22 #3 · p.22 #3 · Do you think Canon's tightlippedness is hurting or helping them?


Well, the D750 rumors are pretty interesting and might be the single most viable option for me to consider using Nikon more seriously for weddings. A lot will depend on the AF system and sensor implementation, plus whether or not it will have the basic features 1/8000, pc sync port, etc.

So, in a way I'm glad the D750 is going to be released, because it gives me absolutely 0 incentive to even consider the D810 since it isn't really a perfect fit for me. Just like the D800 was not the perfect fit, the D4s, Df, D610 aren't perfect fits...the D750 might be just about right.


However, there is absolutely nothing compelling on the Canon side right now. With an APS-C release being the only imminent thing, and even assuming the sensor has performance worth looking forward to in a full frame camera, the amount of time between that and any 5d/etc. updates is way too long for me to hold out for.



Aug 22, 2014 at 02:16 PM
Imagemaster
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p.22 #4 · p.22 #4 · Do you think Canon's tightlippedness is hurting or helping them?


form wrote:
Well, the D750 rumors are pretty interesting and might be the single most viable option for me to consider using Nikon more seriously for weddings. A lot will depend on the AF system and sensor implementation, plus whether or not it will have the basic features 1/8000, pc sync port, etc.

So, in a way I'm glad the D750 is going to be released, because it gives me absolutely 0 incentive to even consider the D810 since it isn't really a perfect fit for me. Just like the D800 was not the perfect fit, the D4s, Df, D610 aren't perfect fits...the
...Show more

Blah, blah, blah. We all know that there is no camera in the world that is a perfect fit for YOU and nothing will ever be a viable option for YOU.



Aug 22, 2014 at 02:32 PM
Paul Mo
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p.22 #5 · p.22 #5 · Do you think Canon's tightlippedness is hurting or helping them?


gdanmitchell wrote:
If I were a Nikon shooter myself, I'd be all over the D810.



Me too.



Aug 22, 2014 at 02:42 PM
form
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p.22 #6 · p.22 #6 · Do you think Canon's tightlippedness is hurting or helping them?


Sure, you can be insulting and say that everything I say is negative/that I'm too picky/etc. Nobody will stop you. Thanks for your 2 cents focused completely on attacking me. Can you put down a third cent about the topic?

There are plenty of viable options for me, but most of them are out of my price range or sacrifice something else I don't want to lose in trade. Is it wrong to want to lose as little functionality as possible in a trade-off when moving to a new camera/system?

So far, the D810's IQ at high iso has not been as good as the D800 based on lightroom results. That has been the biggest negative about it for me. A D810 would probably be great for landscapes, but a D800/D800e would lose very little for landscapes besides the live view working a bit better, and they cost less. i.e., at least one (and probably more) of the groups (landscape photogs) who would be most likely to benefit from the D810 would get 99.9% of the same benefit from the D800/D800e. But then, they would also possibly prefer medium format anyway. That latest "affordable" Pentax medium format camera would be pretty killer for landscapes.



Aug 22, 2014 at 02:43 PM
TeamSpeed
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p.22 #7 · p.22 #7 · Do you think Canon's tightlippedness is hurting or helping them?


So do you decide on a camera for what it can do potentially for you or based on others' reviews, or what camera will get the job done for your specific needs?

Sometimes it seems that people always are searching for that one camera that can do all things well and also fits a budget, or the one body that 3rd party comparisons say is better than other bodies, vs maybe choosing what exists today that can get the jobs done, even if that means having 2 different bodies, formats, or even manufacturers.

I use the 5D3 for sports. The 1DX is great too, but I want more resolution and better ISO, just because that is fun for me. However, if I am honest with myself, the 5D3 actually works just fine and does almost everything I need it to, and thus my desire for more is just gear acquisition syndrome.

I am trying to combat the "camera x just isn't enough for me and I want more" and am going back to analyzing all my photos as I process them to actually identify if I really have a hole that needs filled by either new equipment, better settings when I shoot, or better post processing. If I cannot buy a lens or change post processing to fix an issue, I will now then start looking for what can be purchased to fill that hole.

In a nutshell, I have started to stop looking at "want" and have concentrated more on "need".



Aug 22, 2014 at 03:08 PM
molson
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p.22 #8 · p.22 #8 · Do you think Canon's tightlippedness is hurting or helping them?


Tony B wrote:
Its not hurting at the moment - especially when Nikon release the D810 with "thermal" issues.
http://photographylife.com/nikon-confirms-the-d810-thermal-issue-and-offers-a-solution


It's the classic "Battle of the Brands"... Canon's indifference towards new product releases versus Nikon's apathy towards quality control.



Aug 22, 2014 at 03:22 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.22 #9 · p.22 #9 · Do you think Canon's tightlippedness is hurting or helping them?


Basically, get a camera/system that seems right for you at the time you get it — considering the range of things that might affect your decision relative to your use: cost, size, integration with equipment you already have, image quality, functional features, type of shooting you do, etc.

Then stick with it for the long term. Your model will "fall behind," both relative to later introductions from other brands and relative to newer gear from the same manufacturer. You can't and don't need to upgrade every time something improves on what you have, any more that you have to upgrade your car every year. Yes, the new thing is better. No, it isn't better enough to upgrade too quickly.

Eventually the improvements will become more compelling and your gear will become older and less reliable. Every so often do plan to update as needed. If things really change in terms of your photographic needs or the long term viability of the full system of equipment from your manufacturer, consider augmenting or replacing with another brand... but be very cautious about replacing, as the compelling evidence is that over the long term you are more likely to be in a good place by sticking with whatever manufacturer you have. (Keep the "grass is always greener" saying in mind, too.)

Take care,

Dan

TeamSpeed wrote:
So do you decide on a camera for what it can do potentially for you or based on others' reviews, or what camera will get the job done for your specific needs?

Sometimes it seems that people always are searching for that one camera that can do all things well and also fits a budget, or the one body that 3rd party comparisons say is better than other bodies, vs maybe choosing what exists today that can get the jobs done, even if that means having 2 different bodies, formats, or even manufacturers.

I use the 5D3 for sports. The 1DX
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Aug 22, 2014 at 03:33 PM
 

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StillFingerz
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p.22 #10 · p.22 #10 · Do you think Canon's tightlippedness is hurting or helping them?


Dan, I'm a bit envious of your group and those MF digital wonders. I'm also thankful you have that experience and it's why your advice is often sought when gear or technique is of question.

Indeed it is the getting together that is of most import. Near 4 decades of 'tall' tales, many past family activities shared, that strengthens a bond two men share that goes beyond words. Before my injury we shared much, after seeing his children grow/mature, the grand kids that followed, it's been/is wonderful!

We've shared SLR gear since Bill's FE and my A-1 beginnings, rangefinders were our kits prior. Both of us found ergonomics the most important and that has continued to today. Functionally both systems have their strong and weak points, it's just preference, there we differ, but not in our passion for photography.

I've had my disappointments with Canon and didn't avail myself of AF until my 1st EOS3 in 2000, with Bill using it's virtues far before me. Canon's move to the EF mount was understandable, a good move for future growth, but it was tough to swallow. Whereas Bill still has and uses all of his glass, a collection that's not trivial.

These systems have leapfrogged for decades, at times each of us wanting a bit of a new feature the other had, but sticking with what felt/worked best. It's no different today with the D810, this time I wait for Canon to respond! Not having gone FF yet, with Photokina not far off, perhaps my loyalty-out-of-necessity will be rewarded much like Bill's jump to FF has been. I'm in no hurry like some folk and it's a good place to be; not having to switch for profits sake.

As said before, a 6D is in my sights, but the 5D3 or better is what I'd really like. I don't need super high FPS nor MPs. The 5D3 strikes a balance as an all-round shooter and that is very appealing for my subject matter/style.

It's the AF system that I could really use, but must admit I prefer the old 'red' focus confirm style to that of the newer 'black' 7D/5D3/1DX. Give me a hybrid AF that combines the -3ev of the 6D with the 5D3/1DX prowess, include the 'red' rectangle feature, throw in 4K video, even cleaner/higher ISOs, and I'm all in. That's not asking too much is it

For now I suffer thru with a 7D and 1DMk2N, it's horrible, just unthinkably horrible

Cheers,
Jerry



Aug 22, 2014 at 03:36 PM
ggreene
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p.22 #11 · p.22 #11 · Do you think Canon's tightlippedness is hurting or helping them?


form wrote:
So, in a way I'm glad the D750 is going to be released, because it gives me absolutely 0 incentive to even consider the D810 since it isn't really a perfect fit for me. Just like the D800 was not the perfect fit, the D4s, Df, D610 aren't perfect fits...the D750 might be just about right.


I'm looking forward to the D750 too especially in how it compares to the 7D2 and the 1DX. I don't get hung up on FF vs. crop. I just like seeing new sports bodies.

form wrote:
So far, the D810's IQ at high iso has not been as good as the D800 based on lightroom results. That has been the biggest negative about it for me.


Yeah, the Exmor sensors may be great for low ISO DR but I'll take the 1DX high ISO output right now.



Aug 22, 2014 at 03:44 PM
Imagemaster
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p.22 #12 · p.22 #12 · Do you think Canon's tightlippedness is hurting or helping them?


form wrote:
Sure, you can be insulting and say that everything I say is negative/that I'm too picky/etc. Nobody will stop you. Thanks for your 2 cents focused completely on attacking me. Can you put down a third cent about the topic?

There are plenty of viable options for me, but most of them are out of my price range or sacrifice something else I don't want to lose in trade. Is it wrong to want to lose as little functionality as possible in a trade-off when moving to a new camera/system?


Not my fault that your reputation for whining precedes you. In case your memory fails you, one of the many threads verifying that others agree with my perspective of your constant "blame the gear" rants:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1306651/0



Aug 22, 2014 at 04:21 PM
Imagemaster
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p.22 #13 · p.22 #13 · Do you think Canon's tightlippedness is hurting or helping them?


StillFingerz wrote:
For now I suffer thru with a 7D and 1DMk2N, it's horrible, just unthinkably horrible


How can you possibly take any decent photos with such inferior gear

form wrote:
However, there is absolutely nothing compelling on the Canon side right now.





Aug 22, 2014 at 04:25 PM
StillFingerz
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p.22 #14 · p.22 #14 · Do you think Canon's tightlippedness is hurting or helping them?


Form, I had not heard of the D750, that could be a killer bit of kit, hope it meets your needs/wants. Go Nikon and Canon


Aug 22, 2014 at 04:35 PM
StillFingerz
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p.22 #15 · p.22 #15 · Do you think Canon's tightlippedness is hurting or helping them?


Imagemaster wrote:
How can you possibly take any decent photos with such inferior gear



Tony, it's a huge struggle. but I'm kind of use that, ya know that life thing

Your suggestion to use NeatImage was a blessing, it does work wonders with our inferior sub-par Canon relics and their hidious RAW files



Aug 22, 2014 at 04:39 PM
mttran
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p.22 #16 · p.22 #16 · Do you think Canon's tightlippedness is hurting or helping them?


gdanmitchell wrote:
If I were a Nikon shooter myself, I'd be all over the D810.



Dan, why not - life is short - play a little harder if canon has nothing interesting this coming months



Aug 22, 2014 at 05:20 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.22 #17 · p.22 #17 · Do you think Canon's tightlippedness is hurting or helping them?


Imagemaster wrote:
Not my fault that your reputation for whining precedes you...


Rather than heading in this direction, may I recommend that you just use the hide me button and then simply don't respond?

Take care,

Dan



Aug 22, 2014 at 08:35 PM
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