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Archive 2014 · Take on Apple's Abandonment of Aperture

  
 
chez
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Take on Apple's Abandonment of Aperture


howardm4 wrote:
my hunch is that Adobe management at the time was too stupid to realize they needed something like this while saying 'Oh, Photoshop or Elements is enough' while being afraid to kill the goose they had. Also, probably a bunch of political infighting (and loss by the LR product team) kept Shadowland (LR's work name) on a archive tape somewhere. Once Aperture was out there, Adobe couldn't not respond. Again, the perils of a functional monopoly.


Just smart business to not kill off or take away sales from your flagship product. You might call Adobe management stupid, I call them pretty wise. They were ready when an upstart would come along with a simple processing application...and guess who survived in the end...not Aperture.



Nov 02, 2014 at 03:43 PM
howardm4
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Take on Apple's Abandonment of Aperture


I think there is/was an upper limit of enthusiasts who wanted more than Elements but weren't willing to pony up $600+ for PS but Adobe maintained their premium pricing. It'd be interesting to see the sales volume of Elements vs PS. Once Aperture arrived, Adobe already had something they could dust-off and productize.

Aperture died because Apple doesn't have a problem w/ killing off their products in search of the next thing whereas most other companies do. We have yet to see what the new 'Photos' app will be.



Nov 02, 2014 at 03:55 PM
Focus Locus
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Take on Apple's Abandonment of Aperture


Aperture was doomed from the beginning, the moment Adobe released Lr in beta. No matter how inferior Lr may have been, and no matter how good Aperture might have become, Aperture was not:

1. Cross platform compatible. A very big deal, and especially more so 8+ years ago, when PC's were more dominate, in the days before Intel, iPod, iTunes, iPhone, and iPad broadened the Apple Ecosystem user base. People who were PC based couldn't use Aperture, and people who used Macs often still had to use PC's, and wanted to be able to work their image files on either platform. That was an immutable built in handicap for Aperture.

2. An Adobe product. Just like those classic 90's era puzzle pieces fitting together in Microsoft's Office system marketing, where Word, Excel, Access, and Outlook all came from the same roof, shared dlls, and offered users a compatible and coordinated productivity "ecosystem", the perception of integration that Adobe Lightroom would have with Adobe Photoshop is inextricably linked. While reality has proven that shared rooftop program origination is not necessary, the perception still remains for new users deciding which camp to commit their learning curve climb toward.



Nov 02, 2014 at 04:15 PM
Ian.Dobinson
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Take on Apple's Abandonment of Aperture


Focus Locus wrote:
1. Cross platform compatible. A very big deal, and especially more so 8+ years ago, when PC's were more dominate, in the days before Intel, iPod, iTunes, iPhone, and iPad broadened the Apple Ecosystem user base. People who were PC based couldn't use Aperture, and people who used Macs often still had to use PC's, and wanted to be able to work their image files on either platform. That was an immutable built in handicap for Aperture.



+1 on the cross platform thing
For me its been a big advantage . I can work on my files at home on my iMac and then while I'm at work or away I can do stuff on them on my Surface pro (or any other laptop that has LR installed )
even better was the addition of Smart previews to LR5 . now I don't even have to have the RAW files with me .

LR is completely cross platform as well , meaning the LRCAT file is the same (no converting to a different file format) and so are the Preview and Smart preview files . I just have to drop a copy of them onto a memory stick and I can run them on the other machine .



Nov 02, 2014 at 07:06 PM
jolahern
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Take on Apple's Abandonment of Aperture



I was a user of RawShooter, I belive the one of the developers worked at PhaseOne before starting this company (going from memory here so I might be wrong on that). When you tried RawShooter what you noticed was an improvement in sharpness and general contract/vibrance compared to other raw converters, it was also much better for editing and processing lots of raw images compared to other programs that were often only set up for one image at a time.

There is often the comment that Adobe released Lightroom in response to Aperature, but as already pointed out, you can't produce a product light Lightroom overnight and it was being developed under as Shadowland for years before Aperature was released. What probably had more an impact on the two release dates was the hardward at the time. Before these programs were released, most raw converters could not have two RAW images loaded up and showed side by side to judge which one to pick, you had to individually convert them to jpeg and then use the jpeg to select you picks and then go back and process the selected raw files completely. Once the hardware got better and cheaper more could be done in a raw converter. It feels like the opposite now in that the pace of software development to make use of increase processign power can't keep up with the hardware developments.



Nov 04, 2014 at 07:51 AM
Dave_EP
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Take on Apple's Abandonment of Aperture


I'm afraid despite my intentions otherwise I just transferred my entire library from Aperture to Lightroom 5. There were just too many little work arounds I was having to do and the NR in LR5 is just so much better than Aperture. It's sad to see a product die, but if they aren't going to maintain it and the replacement isn't going to be around when I need it most (i.e. now) then what choice do we have?

I still dislike having to swap from Library to Develop module but I guess I'll get used to it.

I ain't renting it though I bought the perpetual license upgrade since that was also the cheaper way of doing it. I wonder for how long.



Nov 04, 2014 at 11:29 AM
Paul Mo
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Take on Apple's Abandonment of Aperture


Dave_EP wrote:
I still dislike having to swap from Library to Develop module but I guess I'll get used to it.



Yeah they seem quite resistant to integrating the two. Plus, I'd love to have Grid View as an option in the Dev. Module but they insist on the filmstrip. The forums are alive with requests but Adobe appear quite slow in implementing them - or perhaps they are afraid of messing up an overall winning product.



Nov 04, 2014 at 07:33 PM
Focus Locus
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Take on Apple's Abandonment of Aperture


Dave_EP wrote:
I ain't renting it though I bought the perpetual license upgrade since that was also the cheaper way of doing it. I wonder for how long.



Wait... let me get this straight... even if one purchases a boxed hard copy of LR5, one still has to renew the license "perpetually"? I wouldn't want the software to automatically disable itself in the future. Is this what the last known boxed hard copies do? Expire after a year, and either pay to renew or the software is disabled?

I'm still on LR2 and CS3, and am afraid to upgrade, no matter how cool the new tools are. Is LR5 and CS6 safe to upgrade to, without it being "turned off" unless some additional perpetual payment is tendered?




Nov 04, 2014 at 07:44 PM
butchM
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Take on Apple's Abandonment of Aperture


Focus Locus wrote:
Wait... let me get this straight... even if one purchases a boxed hard copy of LR5, one still has to renew the license "perpetually"? I wouldn't want the software to automatically disable itself in the future. Is this what the last known boxed hard copies do? Expire after a year, and either pay to renew or the software is disabled?

I'm still on LR2 and CS3, and am afraid to upgrade, no matter how cool the new tools are. Is LR5 and CS6 safe to upgrade to, without it being "turned off" unless some additional perpetual payment is tendered?



The good news is, Lightroom is currently available in both licensing options ... a perpetual license (like we always had) which never expires, upgrades currently are a one time fee $79 (US) for Lr v5 or as part of the Ps/Lr Creative Cloud Photographer Package for $9.99 (US) ... and also in the Creative Cloud all inclusive everything included Creative Cloud subscription at $50 per month.

The main difference is we don't really know how long Adobe will offer Lightroom with a perpetual license ... and the subscription does offer the latest version of the app at no additional cost ... however, some folks are concerned at how well, and for how long Adobe can hold the line on pricing for the subscription licensing.



Nov 04, 2014 at 09:02 PM
Focus Locus
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Take on Apple's Abandonment of Aperture


I ran across an advertisement recently where Adobe's entire Creative Cloud suite... something like 16 applications, was temporarily being offered to subscribers for some small amount like $10 a month. It was a better deal than what Adobe advertises in the banners on FM, but I don't remember where I encountered the ad.

I still was not tempted, because I don't want to have an Internet connection to do my work. And I don't want to be locked out of my own edit work, which can sometimes involve ten times more creative time than lighting, staging, and shooting. What if my future circumstances change and the budget no longer can fit a subscription... especially if the subscription hikes up in price? I want the edits to have access to the same software that was used to create them, for as long as the images are of any use. That could be years.

Even trying the Cloud is of no use, because any work created in the Cloud will need Cloud tools to rework. If access is denied to the Cloud tools... either from my lapse of subscription, or an inability to access the Internet, then that work is orphaned and cannot be adjusted layer by layer in the original way.

The foregoing are my "fears" with CC. Do I have any misunderstandings on how CC works?






Nov 04, 2014 at 11:55 PM
butchM
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Take on Apple's Abandonment of Aperture


Focus Locus wrote:
Do I have any misunderstandings on how CC works?



Yes, that is not how it works. You don't need a constant internet connection to use CC apps. The apps to need to verify with Adobe that your subscription is valid and up to date. The schedule that the apps need to make this verification is very liberal, though in some cases it doesn't follow exactly what is outlined in the EULA.

Lightroom does have an additional feature ... the CC version will in fact continue to function base operations of the Library and Quick Develop even after your subscription would expire. So you have access to your files, though you can't re-work them to the same depth as with the app fully enabled. A step I think Adobe was wise to offer.

As with all agreements, CC or perpetual, there can be problems ... but I think you need to do some further research to make a better informed decision. I'm not advocating CC, but it isn't quite what you have in mind.




Nov 05, 2014 at 12:21 AM
Ian.Dobinson
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Take on Apple's Abandonment of Aperture


Focus Locus wrote:
I ran across an advertisement recently where Adobe's entire Creative Cloud suite... something like 16 applications, was temporarily being offered to subscribers for some small amount like $10 a month. It was a better deal than what Adobe advertises in the banners on FM, but I don't remember where I encountered the ad.

I still was not tempted, because I don't want to have an Internet connection to do my work. And I don't want to be locked out of my own edit work, which can sometimes involve ten times more creative time than lighting, staging, and shooting. What if
...Show more

I don't think I've ever seen the ENTIRE CC suite offered for that small amount . Adobe do have the Photo pack which is Photoshop CC and LR5 plus LR mobile (if you have an iPad/iphone) for 10 bucks a month .

as for the not wanting an interest connection : you don't need one . all you programs and ALL YOUR WORK are stored on your machine . they do offer some cloud storage (but on the photo pack its way too small) .
there is actually very little 'Cloud' in Adobe CC . your apps can be downloaded from the 'cloud' whenever you need but they are not worked from the cloud like the google chrome OS does .

this subscription model is the way things are going wether we like it or not . Office 365 and Adobe CC are the 2 that effect most of us . (office 365 is now offering UNLIMITED storage in the price now which is handy )



Nov 05, 2014 at 02:21 AM
Paul Mo
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Take on Apple's Abandonment of Aperture


I am hoping all of this has a positive effect on open source programs.


Nov 05, 2014 at 02:25 AM
Dave_EP
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Take on Apple's Abandonment of Aperture


Focus Locus wrote:
Wait... let me get this straight... even if one purchases a boxed hard copy of LR5, one still has to renew the license "perpetually"?


No, you never have to connect to the internet, you don't have to upgrade, you could run this software forever as long as your computer was alive and you were running on an OS that supported. No more payments, not rentals, not renewals, nothing. It's paid for.

What you don't get with the perpetual license is the mobile version, well whoopee doo..... I've never wanted to edit my photos on an iPad thank you very much

Now, when they announce LR6, will they still have a perpetual license upgrade option? Who knows? But if they do that's the option I'll take. The upgrade (perpetual license - use forever no more payments) was £54. Renting for one year would have been £107.40 then another £107.40 next year and so on. Can't think of a reason I'd want to do that voluntarily.




Nov 05, 2014 at 08:12 AM
Ian.Dobinson
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Take on Apple's Abandonment of Aperture


Dave dont forget that £107.40 for the year is not just for Lightroom. its Photoshop AND lightroom .
and considering what the upgrade cost of Photoshop was (not even counting the original cost) then its actually decent price .



Nov 05, 2014 at 08:22 AM
Focus Locus
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Take on Apple's Abandonment of Aperture


Yeah, but this subscription model teaser price is so cable TV. Once two years of one's work is entangled into those newer versions of programs, and they decide to double or triple the subscription rate (as a bitter "thanks" to early adopters and loyal subscribers), while new subscribers can still get the more attractive teaser rate, what choice does one have then?

It appears doubtful that the same layers and edits (or instructions in xmp side car files) that were created in CC will translate or work in previous legacy versions. Especially if the new tools didn't even exist on the older boxed versions. So a subscription would be required, seemingly forever, at whatever monopolistic price Adobe dictates for continuing subscribers, if the investment of work is to be preserved with the same operational flexibility.

And what about the number of computers? The old boxed versions from Adobe permit one to run the software on a laptop and on a desktop, providing that both are not used simultaneously. What does the CC permit?



Nov 05, 2014 at 12:33 PM
gdanmitchell
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · Take on Apple's Abandonment of Aperture


Focus Locus wrote:
... what about the number of computers? The old boxed versions from Adobe permit one to run the software on a laptop and on a desktop, providing that both are not used simultaneously. What does the CC permit?


Still two computers. I have it running on my desktop and laptop with a single license.



Nov 05, 2014 at 12:37 PM
Dave_EP
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · Take on Apple's Abandonment of Aperture


Ian.Dobinson wrote:
Dave dont forget that £107.40 for the year is not just for Lightroom. its Photoshop AND lightroom .
and considering what the upgrade cost of Photoshop was (not even counting the original cost) then its actually decent price .


But I already have Photoshop 7, CS, CS2, CS3, CS5, CS6, why would I want to rent another one?




Nov 06, 2014 at 03:23 PM
Ian.Dobinson
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · Take on Apple's Abandonment of Aperture


Dave_EP wrote:
But I already have Photoshop 7, CS, CS2, CS3, CS5, CS6, why would I want to rent another one?



yeeah I know , its one way to look at it (and a very valid way ) but 2 questions

1. what was the upgrade cost , and what was the life (to you) of each version before you upgraded ? - I see you only skipped CS4

2. had Adobe NOT changed the model would you in all honesty have upgraded to CS7 - CS8......... in the future ?


Let me say that I don't at the moment subscribe to CC . I have access to CS6 (via a family members company unused licence and i own LR5 . in fact i actually have 2 copies of LR5 because i upgraded to it when it came out and lucky old me got a FREE copy from Canon when I bought my 5D3

when LR6 ships I will probably go the CC route because while I don't use Photoshop that much i do still use it but would never be able to justify the cost of entry prior to the CC photo pack . the fact that CC will give me LR6 as well is a bonus



Nov 06, 2014 at 05:11 PM
Dave_EP
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · Take on Apple's Abandonment of Aperture


Ian.Dobinson wrote:
yeeah I know , its one way to look at it (and a very valid way ) but 2 questions

1. what was the upgrade cost , and what was the life (to you) of each version before you upgraded ? - I see you only skipped CS4


Less than the cost of rental would have been during that time.

Ian.Dobinson wrote:
2. had Adobe NOT changed the model would you in all honesty have upgraded to CS7 - CS8......... in the future ?


Actually, yes, there were a couple of features in three or four of the programs (alas ZERO in photoshop) I would have quite liked, but I'm not going to use them because I don't want to be locked in to the rental model, and unlike photoshop that can save work as tiffs etc, those apps (like After Effects) use proprietary file formats.

There's been nothing new in Photoshop I use for several revisions. All the changes were in Premiere Pro, After Effects, Dreamweaver etc. It just happened that Photoshop came along for the ride when I upgraded the other stuff. I could probably continue along very happily with photoshop I had 10 years for what I use it for now.

Ian.Dobinson wrote:
Let me say that I don't at the moment subscribe to CC . I have access to CS6 (via a family members company unused licence and i own LR5 . in fact i actually have 2 copies of LR5 because i upgraded to it when it came out and lucky old me got a FREE copy from Canon when I bought my 5D3

when LR6 ships I will probably go the CC route because while I don't use Photoshop that much i do still use it but would never be able to justify the cost of entry prior to
...Show more

If LR6 comes out at the same upgrade price that I paid for LR5 then I'll be doing the upgrade and not subscribing since:

a) The upgrade is cheaper

and

b) Even if the upgrade were marginally more expensive, I don't want Adobe perpetually dipping in to my bank account when the upgrade route means I can choose if/when I want to give them money.

So what of they bring out awesome features next time around and I don't want/need to use those features for another 6-9 months or ever? That's money in my bank, not theirs.

I've heard all the arguments for and against the rental model. I just prefer being the one that decides when money leaves my bank, not some giant corporation that will turn off my software if I don't feel like paying one day. If I decide to update to a computer with an OS that no longer runs my versions of software then there's nothing to stop me down the rental road then, but until then I'll keep the money and be happy with a down rev photoshop. I barely use what's there already. One or two more tweaks in lightroom (specifically a better clone tool) and I'd need photoshop even less!





Nov 12, 2014 at 04:52 PM
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